Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore (UPD #443ff 14-Dec agenda/lease links)

[NHLfan4life]

And a home NHL game at 6:00

hmm shorts or long pants decisions decisions

I'm there. Bringing some friends. Section 201. I will be the one in the Coyotes jersey...wave if you see me.

 

[peter sullivan]

with everyone celebrating the new owner and solidification of the team in the long term, im sure the fan exhuberance and relief will translate into an electric atmosphere in that building tonight.

with this huge news, it should probably be a sell out i guess.

 

[AllByDesign]

If this deal goes thru, I just hope you guys show as much interest in the Yotes as you are now...we could use the fans.

My only interest in the Yotes is for them to stay and I can still have the AHL team that I enjoy. If you have noticed I don't post in your Coyote section. I post here for the Business talk as it is another facet of the sport that I have interest in.

At least you and Hulziser have something in common...zippo experience. The difference is Hulziser will bring in an expert to run the arena or did you not read that part in his statement to the press?

There are other differences between Hulsizer and I. Of course there are the obvious ones like size of bankroll and the ownership of an investment firm. I have caught all of his statements to the press. I like the one about comparing owning the team as to owning a rare piece of art... just for the record if anyone is looking to give away a rare Monet I'd be happy to take it for free... if that's what he meant by that. Or maybe he was refering to the Thomas Crown Affair in which the art is just stolen. Ohhh I also recall the one about the difference between him and the other potential owners for the Yotes was he was the only one willing to lose money... hehehe.. never said who's money he was going to lose. He has been claiming himself to be a philanthropic white knight. I've called him a Rounder and a Charlatan from the begining. He has no interest in helping ayone in Glendale, nor any hockey fans. His #1 interest is himself and if is permitted to will make like a bandit while the COG goes broke. I am all for profit, but people in the same vein as Hulsizer sicken me.

So..it doesn't matter if you live in Glendale what matters is whether the COG will re-coup its money...it doesn't care where it comes from. Do you think the City of Winnipeg said we're not going to have NHL exhibition games if the teams are not from Winnipeg? Heck the Yotes have played two exhibition games there recently. Did you go to those games?

The COG will not recoup its money, and no I do not attend NHL exhibition games. To spend $90 a seat to watch the same players that I see for $20 with the Moose is an insult. Keep in mind that I am not originaly from Winnipeg and have no heartstrung attachment to the team that most people here pine for that you now adore. The city of Winnipeg had an opportunity to make the same outrageouos error that Glendale is making, but took a pass in the best interests of the tax paying base. A tough pill to swallow I'm sure but it was the right thing to do.

IMO...the Coyotes wouldn't even be in this position right now if the Scottsdale City Council had listened to the citizens who voted 3 separate times for the arena in Scottsdale. Then again...Gretzky might still be owner or worse coach..but that's for another topic.

Sure they would... just scratch out COG and place Scottsdale in the preceding posts and you have exactly the same scenario. Scottsdale didn't like what they were being sold. Glendale did, and Glendale is trying to get out of its hole by digging to China.

Hulziser gets it..you need to win back the hearts of the Coyotes fans and put a good product on the ice and I believe they will return.

Yeah.. he gets it in 100,000,000.00 different ways.

Now...it's time to take a dip in my 80 degree (26 C) weather and get ready to attend an NHL hockey game. Enjoy your great weather and hockey night in Canada!

I'd be happy to move to Arizona. For the price I could get a house for there I would triple my square footage. I won't be paying taxes in Glendale though... I get get ripped on taxes here fine enough in Canada.

 

[peter sullivan]

My only interest in the Yotes is for them to stay and I can still have the AHL team that I enjoy.

dont get too comfortable.

now we find out what TNSE has really been promised.

 

[AllByDesign]

dont get too comfortable.

I know

 

[JetFan4Ever]

dont get too comfortable.

now we find out what TNSE has really been promised.

Do you really think TNSE was promised something for their reported role in the Coyote saga?

 

[Free Edler]

Do you really think TNSE was promised something for their reported role in the Coyote saga?

It's laughable to even suggest TNSE has been 'promised' anything, apart from possibly a couple more exhibition games at the MTS Centre in the coming years. Winnipeg was a pawn. Simple as that.

 

[Mike in MN]

dont get too comfortable.

now we find out what TNSE has really been promised.

My personal conspiracy theory: Once Quebec's new arena is official, the NHL will announce 2 expansion teams for 2012, possibly even 2011. Right around the all-star game seems right.

 

[knich]

There are other differences between Hulsizer and I. Of course there are the obvious ones like size of bankroll and the ownership of an investment firm. I have caught all of his statements to the press. I like the one about comparing owning the team as to owning a rare piece of art... just for the record if anyone is looking to give away a rare Monet I'd be happy to take it for free... if that's what he meant by that. Or maybe he was refering to the Thomas Crown Affair in which the art is just stolen. Ohhh I also recall the one about the difference between him and the other potential owners for the Yotes was he was the only one willing to lose money... hehehe.. never said who's money he was going to lose. He has been claiming himself to be a philanthropic white knight. I've called him a Rounder and a Charlatan from the begining. He has no interest in helping ayone in Glendale, nor any hockey fans. His #1 interest is himself and if is permitted to will make like a bandit while the COG goes broke. I am all for profit, but people in the same vein as Hulsizer sicken me.

Then what does that make Gretzky and his $8 million/yr salary as head coach? What do you think of Basillie? Who is your model owner by the way?

 

[peter sullivan]

It's laughable to even suggest TNSE has been 'promised' anything.

all i will say is....keep laughing....

 

[Free Edler]

all i will say is....keep laughing....

I know it sucks to admit defeat - I'm a Canucks fan, Chicago is our kryptonite - but it's time to look at the cold, hard truth. Winnipeg was simply used as a pawn to push the CoG into offering a better deal for whichever philanthropist - because let's face it, owning this hockey team in that market is an exercise in philanthropy without massive concessions from local government - who ends up buying it.

 

[roccerfeller]

It's laughable to even suggest TNSE has been 'promised' anything, apart from possibly a couple more exhibition games at the MTS Centre in the coming years. Winnipeg was a pawn. Simple as that.

I too don't think TNSE was "promised" anything; I think it was pretty simple and straight forward that they made their interest known to the NHL (as both parties have confirmed independently of Yotes relocation speculation) so the NHL needed to show CoG they were serious about moving the team, so to that extent perhaps they were being used as a pawn...but I don't think they were used as a pawn in the sense of "bargaining chip" for CoG to submit to keeping Yotes in Phx...b/c there was a bona fide offer GB himself confirmed. That means it would have happened. I think the NHL said "okay, if you CoG guys aren't serious about keeping this team there, to prove we are not bluffing, we will contact these Winnipeg guys who have already let us know in the past of their interest in owning an NHL franchise, and b/c Chipman is very well respected in the AHL circle (this guy is a class A businessman) and Thomson is the mac daddy of mac daddys, we will get a deal ready with them. You sort your **** out, and we'll take you as priority, but this is a very real alternate reality that could happen"

Gdale always wanted the yotes to stay, and I highly doubt the NHL would want to piss or evoke such a move with the main financier behind an NHL team in the Peg; Mr Thomson...who is rich enough to buy 8 teams with his annual net salary.

I think amidst the backhand deals/shady lawyer tactics, the whole Yote situation is more straight forward than people think. NHL always said they want to do everything possible before relocation becomes a possibility. And relocation was/(is?) a very real possibility.

Yotes fans get their team, but they also are not out of the woods yet. This whole lease as others have mentioned is sketch, even from the extremely limited legal knowledge I have.

Again, what matters at the end of the day is the interpretation of the law, but this deal potentially stinks real bad for Glendale tax payers. But it might go unnoticed. Who knows what the future will hold.

I'll be fine watching my Canadiens no matter what happens, but it is exciting.

I gotta agree with ABD on one thing...the Moose experience certainly is not bad at all. My friends from Calgary were surprised at how "NHL" it feels at times...esp surprised with the experience for its price.

But this lease is still not a home run by any means. There is still potential legal squandering...squandering about.

 

[peter sullivan]

I know it sucks to admit defeat - I'm a Canucks fan, Chicago is our kryptonite - but it's time to look at the cold, hard truth. Winnipeg was simply used as a pawn to push the CoG into offering a better deal for whichever philanthropist - because let's face it, owning this hockey team in that market is an exercise in philanthropy without massive concessions from local government - who ends up buying it.

it is even more laughable to suggest that david thomson was used as a pawn.

i am not talking out of my butt....keep laughing...you will see.

i havent believed it was the coyotes since the summer.

 

[armpit]

tnse will be getting the thrashers... as stated before, they were brought in as a last resort for the coyotes...now back to your regular scheduled program... thrashers > winnipeg, islanders > quebec when the arena is built...

 

[ultra runner]

where do the coyotes go when the boondoggle in the desert is over??

 

[JetFan4Ever]

it is even more laughable to suggest that david thomson was used as a pawn.

i am not talking out of my butt....keep laughing...you will see.

i havent believed it was the coyotes since the summer.

I agree Peter, I really don't think the NHL is dumb enough to play games with a guy like David Thompson. However, I really would lke to know what was the agreement is.

 

[Whileee]

it is even more laughable to suggest that david thomson was used as a pawn.

i am not talking out of my butt....keep laughing...you will see.

i havent believed it was the coyotes since the summer.

And I have been saying that for the TNSE it has been "the Coyotes if necessary, but not necessarily the Coyotes". As I have posted repeatedly on this board, my personal preference is for an expansion franchise in Wpg, perhaps in conjunction with QC. Clean start, no baggage, etc. In any case, I doubt that TNSE has been spending millions just so the MTS Centre is better prepared for AHL journalists, etc. I also think that QC would not seriously consider building an arena without some assurance that they will have an NHL team to put in it.

 

[lockstock]

tnse will be getting the thrashers... as stated before, they were brought in as a last resort for the coyotes...now back to your regular scheduled program... thrashers > winnipeg, islanders > quebec when the arena is built...

The only positive thing I could see come out of that would be Detroit moving to the east so the Coyotes can destroy Winnipeg several times a year. I don't know about the Thrashers, but I still can't see the Islanders relocating as long as they have that TV deal paying out $20-34 million per year until 2030.

 

[JetFan4Ever]

It's laughable to even suggest TNSE has been 'promised' anything, apart from possibly a couple more exhibition games at the MTS Centre in the coming years. Winnipeg was a pawn. Simple as that.

Yeah, disrespecting and lyiing to one of Canada's richest men, sounds like a great move, what was I thinking.

 

[cbcwpg]

Hate to say it, but I agree with those who say Winnipeg was used. They were, BUT only because they knew that it could happen and because the NHL saw the opportunity to use TNSE.

Remember this, the NHL NEVER approached TNSE, it was TNSE that approached the NHL. TNSE knew that by offering to buy the Coyotes and the NHL's supposed stance on not relocating teams, that the NHL was going to use them to put pressure on the CoG. So, the question is, do they get anything out of it?

But on the Phoenix front...

Its not often you get a second life in sports... Minnesota got their second chance and made the most of it... Atlanta got thier second chance and have proven to the hockey world that they have blow it big time and they shouldn't have been given that chance.... now its Phoenix's turn. We will see...

 

[Free Edler]

it is even more laughable to suggest that david thomson was used as a pawn.

Yeah, disrespecting and lyiing to one of Canada's richest men, sounds like a great move, what was I thinking.

Thomson is a non-issue. He's not the public face of TNSE, Chipman is. As far as 'disrespecting' and 'lying' to him, that's once again laughable. He'd be a silent partner, a money man, and if he or TNSE were promised anything, Bettman is even dumber than he sounds. You guys were pawns, the team was always staying in Phoenix, and Bettman would sooner eat his suit - shoes included - than leave a market like Atlanta.

 

[Fugu]

Tis the season to be jolly, fa la la la la... la...la follies.........

 

[JetFan4Ever]

NIce look Fugu!

 

[Fugu]

NIce look Fugu!

Yeah, it's almost too cute. I had a nice renard arctique look going, but with the Santa hat and lights, the fox looks like a stuffed animal.

 

[peter sullivan]

Thomson is a non-issue. He's not the public face of TNSE, Chipman is. As far as 'disrespecting' and 'lying' to him, that's once again laughable. He'd be a silent partner, a money man, and if he or TNSE were promised anything, Bettman is even dumber than he sounds. You guys were pawns, the team was always staying in Phoenix, and Bettman would sooner eat his suit - shoes included - than leave a market like Atlanta.

You know not of what you speak.

There were only two reasons I was hoping for Phoenix.

To finally rid the world of that lame coyote call when they score and to have victor tikonov's son playing in Winnipeg would have been cool.

Other than that it's best to start without the baggage of what has been a loser franchise for 30+ years.