This. Clarkson is no top 6 winger. On a Stanley Cup worthy roster, Clarkson is a 3rd line guy.
This. Clarkson is no top 6 winger. On a Stanley Cup worthy roster, Clarkson is a 3rd line guy.
JerryGigantic
Old Skool
BrodeursCups
....
Yeah, let's drag the guy through the mud when he's not playing well.
Same people who want the guy gone are the same ones who will piss and moan all over the board about how Lou can't keep free agents if he walks in the offseason...Then next season they'll complain that we have no goal scorers sans Kovy...
You don't just magically replace goal production. You may not like his game right now but the guy will be good for ~25 goals for the next few years. Like it or not you have to pay for that. Not even the biggest Reid Boucher homer could possibly argue we have that production coming in the pipeline...
I personally love the "I wouldn't go over 3.5 million for him!!" posts. Luckily for us you aren't the GM and don't determine what said player is worth to the team.
Same people who want the guy gone are the same ones who will piss and moan all over the board about how Lou can't keep free agents if he walks in the offseason...Then next season they'll complain that we have no goal scorers sans Kovy...
You don't just magically replace goal production. You may not like his game right now but the guy will be good for ~25 goals for the next few years. Like it or not you have to pay for that. Not even the biggest Reid Boucher homer could possibly argue we have that production coming in the pipeline...
I personally love the "I wouldn't go over 3.5 million for him!!" posts. Luckily for us you aren't the GM and don't determine what said player is worth to the team.
Not trying to invoke the situation, but who's to say the guy does post ~25 goals a season for some years, he could go back to his old ways starting next season. We never know. Even with players like Kovy, obviously he won't digress much like this, but even him can drop in gameplay... Whether it be injury or not. Always that small possibility.
As for me, I say he isn't worth much more than 4M per, maybe 4.25 per
- May 1, 2011
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Yup he's not worth much more than $4 million, no way. Think about this too. With the salary cap we need to make good decisions on long term contracts. In 4 years from now Henrique could be a UFA and we've already got Zajac signed for another 8 years. $5 million for Clarkson is ********.
JerryGigantic
Old Skool
Clarky has not played well more than he has played well. His bad habits are running rampant. And his results are starting to better match up with his skillset (over a longer sample). He has cemented himself as a third liner, in my opinion, albeit a very valuable one.
And although he seems borderline Pejorative Slured, he does possess that perfect hockey character and toughness. And a great personality on and off the ice (including his work with both our Newark and his Toronto based charities, local TV commercials, etc...).
So I love the guy. Warts and all. And, frankly, if I was the GM I'd overpay to keep him.
But there is talk buzzing that he is one of the few moveable assets for the Devils, including lengthy commentary from our own radio analyst Sherry Ross.
So I see no problem talking about his potential market value, including the cost of re-signing him as a free agent, with folks on here taking the pro or the con position.
Especially as that is largely moot in about 17 hours, or whenever the deadline.
- May 1, 2011
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14 hours Jerry! Get ready for the Clarkson goodbye party!
Just kidding I really do like David. He probably deserves a little more than what he's worth which to me would be $4-$4.2 million a year. I think this is dependent on Lou locking him up before UFA. If he tests the market expect to see teams throw ridiculous offers at him. They will be mostly based on the 40+ goals he scored in a less than 100 game span. Even if he scores 3 or 4 more goals this year he likely won't be paid like he went 20+ games scoring only 2 goals and 4 points.
A lot of people didn't want Gionta back for $4+ million. He scored almost 30 goals in his only two full healthy seasons after he left us. Not sure why anyone would want Clarkson back for that.
Just kidding I really do like David. He probably deserves a little more than what he's worth which to me would be $4-$4.2 million a year. I think this is dependent on Lou locking him up before UFA. If he tests the market expect to see teams throw ridiculous offers at him. They will be mostly based on the 40+ goals he scored in a less than 100 game span. Even if he scores 3 or 4 more goals this year he likely won't be paid like he went 20+ games scoring only 2 goals and 4 points.
A lot of people didn't want Gionta back for $4+ million. He scored almost 30 goals in his only two full healthy seasons after he left us. Not sure why anyone would want Clarkson back for that.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
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In a lot of ways Clarkson's crash and burn back to his hopeless form of two years ago has been the most disheartening thing of the season. Cause last year and early this year it looked like Pete had gotten through to him for good and AT WORST we'd at least see a competent hockey player even if his goal-scoring ran dry, but he's completely fallen back into old habits again. Only without the edge he used to have to his game.
At least before he was a physical player with idiosyncrascies offensively. Now he's a finesse player who can't play finesse and doesn't help offensively when he's not scoring, which is pretty darn frequent.
At least before he was a physical player with idiosyncrascies offensively. Now he's a finesse player who can't play finesse and doesn't help offensively when he's not scoring, which is pretty darn frequent.
- May 1, 2011
- 132,118
- 60,763
He looks like the 07/08 Clarkson right now. Only he's playing twice as many minutes per game, and producing at or below that clip. And maybe getting into fewer fights. And he's playing with Patrik Elias and not Arron frickin Asham. The 08/09 Clarkson scored almost 20 goals that season, and the 09/10 Clarkson was on pace for 20 if not for a couple injuries. The 10/11 Clarkson just forget it. I don't wanna factor those numbers into any of our players games considering the first half disaster. Whether it was Marty's 900 save percentage, or Clarkson's 18 points that season.
manilaNJ
Optimism: Unwavering
He's just doing Lou a favor by bringing down the value of his next contract...
In reality, he was just asked to play above and beyond his ability for too long and outstayed his welcome in the top 6.
I said it before, and I'll stick with it - he's the perfect 3rd liner. He adds grit and depth when given that role.
When he's playing well, he's an unexpected danger playing next to a playmaker like Elias or guys who can hound the puck well like Henrique or Zajac.
But when Elias has some brain farts and Henrique and Zajac fade off offensively, it only magnifies Clarkson's own lack of raw skill.
Lack of forward depth forcing him into a top 6 role as long as he has been playing up there has compounded his set backs this season.
He can win puck battles and he can get plenty shots on net - so if you put him against competition that isn't head & shoulders above him (skill wise) as well as grittier players that will take penalties as opposed to draw them.... then Clarkson will once again become a very valuable player to this team.
In reality, he was just asked to play above and beyond his ability for too long and outstayed his welcome in the top 6.
I said it before, and I'll stick with it - he's the perfect 3rd liner. He adds grit and depth when given that role.
When he's playing well, he's an unexpected danger playing next to a playmaker like Elias or guys who can hound the puck well like Henrique or Zajac.
But when Elias has some brain farts and Henrique and Zajac fade off offensively, it only magnifies Clarkson's own lack of raw skill.
Lack of forward depth forcing him into a top 6 role as long as he has been playing up there has compounded his set backs this season.
He can win puck battles and he can get plenty shots on net - so if you put him against competition that isn't head & shoulders above him (skill wise) as well as grittier players that will take penalties as opposed to draw them.... then Clarkson will once again become a very valuable player to this team.
His passing really has improved, and I will defend my comment.
That being said, I have yet to see him pass the puck the last 10 games. His decision making is piss poor right now.
His passing has improved tenfold. The problem is that ten times zero is still zero.
Billdo
Registered User
Guys you cant keep having this argument about clarkson... when he is hot or when he scored thirty goals he is capable of being a 1st or 2nd line winger.
i think what is being said is that last year was a career year and not to expect that from this guy.
i would agree, and unfortunately when expectations change it makes the player look bad....
I was fooled. Really thought he was going to take the next step and become a more consistent player. Now I can't stand the sight of him.
David needs to do himself a favor and stay on his damn feet and work. Stop diving around like an idiot looking for calls from the officials. It's infuriating to watch when the team is going like ****.
David needs to do himself a favor and stay on his damn feet and work. Stop diving around like an idiot looking for calls from the officials. It's infuriating to watch when the team is going like ****.
RandoDoomer
Registered User
I thought last year was a little flukey at the time. I saw Clarkson as a 15-20 goal guy, playing a 3rd line role, not a 30-goal man. But I have to admit he had me fooled when he went on a tear early this year. I was thinking, hell, maybe he's for real.
Of course, now I'd kill to see the 15-goal grinder I thought he was. Right now he barely resembles a hockey player at all.
Of course, now I'd kill to see the 15-goal grinder I thought he was. Right now he barely resembles a hockey player at all.
Richer's Ghost
Bourbonite
What this thread shows me and why I bumped it, as Chico would say, at this juncture, is that we can fool ourselves during brief success that everything will be ok and people will "step up" or take it up a notch in play to fill voids. That's ok in a short run of a few games to cover for an injury or lackluster funk, but this team cannot just promote role players to top 6 scoring leaders and top pairing defenseman just because nobody else can do the job. Lou and Pete can't tap Clarky on the shoulder with a sword and dub him Sniper Clarkson and not make roster moves to replace top quality with top quality. Hell we couldn't even get one of the legit prospects to take on the role of a prospect developing nicely in Teddy or Josefson. Larsson is getting there but not at the pace some of his draft class peers have.
So we end up pulling players out of their comfort zone and normal roles to be someone else and that just doesn't work - ask Kostopoulos, Gionta, Harrold, Bernier, Moose, etc...
Enough buying time and putting band-aids on arterial cuts. We need surgery and Clarkson is not a first line winger no matter how many nights he stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. He is as you pointed out, a great 3rd line character and may be worth a pay raise, but only for his value as that 3rd liner, not anything more or we're falling back into the same logic punji pit that this thread represents.
Drastic moves - they must be made (sooner or later they will).
Very good points.
I fell into the trap of labeling Clarkson as a 2nd line winger. He was playing so well to start the season, I knew he would regress eventually, but I guess I never expected it to be this bad.
You're absolutely right about this team misusing players, putting them in roles they can't fulfill. Lou always talks about how hockey teams are like orchestras, and each player should play his or her instrument (or role) to make the club successful. He completely forgot about this mentality this year, with Clarkson playing in the top 6, and the rest of the guys you listed playing roles they just can't play (Moose, Gionta, Bernier, etc...)
Unfortunately, Clarkson got off to a hot start and completely leveled off, so some of us may have jumped the gun a little bit with our earlier comments. Its human nature, we got excited about what could possibly be a huge breakout year for (what we thought) was a budding goal scorer. Well, reality just smacked me (and the rest of us) in the face. Clarkson is a 3rd liner, and no matter how hard Pete and Lou try, they can't stick 3rd/4th line guys in the top 6 and expect it to stick for the rest of the season
Oneiro
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2013
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Well, Lou has also stated that he believes that if you show more, you earn more responsibility. And you become a member of the family.
That's what happened with Clarkson and for a while there, he was up to the task. Until he wasn't.
Maybe there's a fundamental contradiction at the core of the Kool Aid philosophy.
That's what happened with Clarkson and for a while there, he was up to the task. Until he wasn't.
Maybe there's a fundamental contradiction at the core of the Kool Aid philosophy.
JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
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I think some fans just have an expectation problem with Clarkson.
Like RG said, this is not a top 6 winger. Sure he can fill in in a pinch and maybe even excel for while, but this is not what his role is.
I think if you are going to be looking for steady production from a player like Clarkson you are going to be disappointed.
This is a guy whose goals and points should be looked at as found money. Clarkson should be a part of that secondary scoring you get from the bottom 6 that makes teams very difficult to play against.
This is NOT a Parise replacement. I think when you look at Clarkson in the proper context you realize that this is a great asset for any team.
Like RG said, this is not a top 6 winger. Sure he can fill in in a pinch and maybe even excel for while, but this is not what his role is.
I think if you are going to be looking for steady production from a player like Clarkson you are going to be disappointed.
This is a guy whose goals and points should be looked at as found money. Clarkson should be a part of that secondary scoring you get from the bottom 6 that makes teams very difficult to play against.
This is NOT a Parise replacement. I think when you look at Clarkson in the proper context you realize that this is a great asset for any team.
Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
Bingo. Overexpectations and strong overreactions are abound on this board over the last 2 days.
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