Confirmed with Link: Panthers sign Dave Bolland (5x5.5)

[angry_treefrog]

Tallon may be a wizard and this signing may turn out better than any of us anticipate - there's no true fan that doesn't hope otherwise.

On the other hand, a fan base that has been sold chuck steak and told it is filet mignon repeatedly for year after year is understandably agitated to see the same scenario play out yet again after a summer where there was much hope for a different outcome. Bolland is our big UFA signing for 2014.

Depending on which side of the coin you are looking at, you will post rather differently. So please be respectful of those you don't "agree" with. You are all hoping for the same outcome on the ice.

 

[Erick*]

Are there any advanced numbers that don't show up in the point totals to make this contract sort of justifiable? There has to be something that Bolland does especially well, right?

I can't believe how some of these players still get overpaid in free agency for being "winners" with "grit" and "intangibles."

Bolland was a solid player for Chicago, especially when they won the first time. However, Tallon keeps bringing in and overpaying these secondary players from his Cup team as if that's the main reason they won.

With the exception of Bolland winning two Cups on great teams, how is Dave Bolland sooooo different from a player like Marcel Goc? Is he even better than Goc at this point in their respective careers?

Furthermore, while some feel like Trocheck could use more development time in the AHL, is he really that much better than Trocheck who's already in the system?

This contract is just absurd. The only nice thing I can say about it is that...well, at least he's not Ed Jovanovski.

 

[gudzilla]

bolland is the perfect player to keep around the young kids, he can teach them all aspects of the game.

he's grittier, pestier etc than goc. goc is probably on par atm, but if bolland gets healthy bolland>

the term and money should be lower, but i guess it was a quite big baby sitter addon

 

[GernBlanston]

Look, I don't love the money here. We clearly overpaid... but I love Bolland and I think we're gonna be glad to see this guy in a Panthers sweater for the next few years.

But the vitriol on these boards after this signing... jeebus. You guys give me the agita sometimes. I tried to post shortly after this signing, but my ipad crapped out on me. As has been said more than once ITT, we have to overpay at this point to get people to come here. Until we win, that's gonna be the case. Period. I'd have preferred to overpay for Moulson, but this works out too.

And I'm not gonna take the time to search, but I remember about 2 years ago there were people on this board saying that Bolland would be the best fit here and that he should be one of our primary trade/FA targets. I think this is still the case. And I think his signing means that Shore and/or Howden are now potential trade bait; DT has something else up his sleeve. I'll bet actual US Dollars on it.

But for the love of dog... can we chill with the vitriol? Save it for the Penguins, not for your own GM.

 

[ursavolta]

Look, I don't love the money here. We clearly overpaid... but I love Bolland and I think we're gonna be glad to see this guy in a Panthers sweater for the next few years.

But the vitriol on these boards after this signing... jeebus. You guys give me the agita sometimes. I tried to post shortly after this signing, but my ipad crapped out on me. As has been said more than once ITT, we have to overpay at this point to get people to come here. Until we win, that's gonna be the case. Period. I'd have preferred to overpay for Moulson, but this works out too.

And I'm not gonna take the time to search, but I remember about 2 years ago there were people on this board saying that Bolland would be the best fit here and that he should be one of our primary trade/FA targets. I think this is still the case. And I think his signing means that Shore and/or Howden are now potential trade bait; DT has something else up his sleeve. I'll bet actual US Dollars on it.

But for the love of dog... can we chill with the vitriol? Save it for the Penguins, not for your own GM.

I believe it will take time. Honestly Im excited to have Bolland on the team, the guy is perfect for the third line role, expensive yes, but perfect. Teams are going to hate playing us.

 

[Mogo]

Bolland is perfect signing it's just 2M$ per year too much

 

[Hagged]

Are there any advanced numbers that don't show up in the point totals to make this contract sort of justifiable? There has to be something that Bolland does especially well, right?

Furthermore, while some feel like Trocheck could use more development time in the AHL, is he really that much better than Trocheck who's already in the system?

A couple of pages ago I checked some stats from extraskater. What easily could be seen was that in all teams he has played in he has played very high quality of competition. Like against the first lines of opposing team. That is very valuable in a third line center as you can leave your offensive lines more offensive minutes. It leads to higher Corsi numbers for the teams scorers and less running in the defensive zone. Also he is very good on PK looking at the stats. Well over anything the Panthers have had to offer. I have a hard time thinking Trochek should jump into this kind of role. But on the other hand, I want somebody else than Barkov/Bjugs to handle the defensive duties to get their energy going towards higher scoring.

Basically Blackhawks, Anaheim, Kings etc. play that way to get more higher percentage chances for their offensive lines. That's also basically the reason for the "mystical" home ice advantage.

So what I expect to happen is that in home games Bollands lines will be matched against the top lines of opponent. That leaves either Barkov or Bjugstad line to play against easy competition. Higher team Corsi ---> more wins. Of course that means Barkov's linemates have to convert shots in to goals more efficiently than last season. Jokinen could help in that as he has had a good SH% earlier in his career.

Bergenheim on Bollands wing could easily get them both around 30 points. That's almost Barkov's last years production with the PK aspect added.

But the important part is that instead of Boyes/Huberdeau/Jokinen/Bjugstad/Barkov/Pirri there can be a true defensive line going to take the defensive zone starts / match-ups. While Barkov was good in that role, it cannot be a good idea to use your best offensive weapon in a shutdown role (though it worked for Minnesota with Mikko Koivu for quite a while).


TLDR:
Good shutdown players don't even need to be offensively gifted to help team offense. They help it by taking the defensive duties from the top lines. That's why I would have been glad to see Komarov on the Panthers for 3.5M even though the main boards said even 3 million by the Leafs was an overpayment.

 

[ShootIt]

A Begenheim-Bolland-Upshall line would be fun to watch.

 

[catEye]

Well at least we managed to ice one of the most expensive 3rd line in the NHL.

 

[Android 16]

http://beta.sportingnews.com/articl...acts-free-agency?modid=http://t.co/BRrRSLcKWf
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I didn't write the article, just passing it along..

 

[Erick*]

http://beta.sportingnews.com/articl...acts-free-agency?modid=http://t.co/BRrRSLcKWf
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I didn't write the article, just passing it along..

Well, that's something to look forward to.

 

[I am not exposed]

http://beta.sportingnews.com/articl...acts-free-agency?modid=http://t.co/BRrRSLcKWf
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I didn't write the article, just passing it along..

Can't take this article seriously if he think Benoit Pouliot is a good signing.

And all the signings were decent/good, apart from the Bolland one because he is being overpaid.

 

[Hagged]

http://beta.sportingnews.com/articl...acts-free-agency?modid=http://t.co/BRrRSLcKWf
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I didn't write the article, just passing it along..

LOL at the CorsiREL% part of the article. It seems like this dude only looked at Goals for percentage, Relative Corsi and raw point production. And somehow deduced from that data that he is not good defensively .

When you play in a shutdown role with shutdown players (High QoC, low QoT) as Bolland has done, it's obvious you are gonna get outshot by the opponent (low CorsiREL% as third line grinders are going against Getzlaf's, Toews', Crosby's lines) and also get outscored by them (low GF%). It sure doesn't help your Pts/60 or shots on goal stats either.

The offensive production isn't good, but the defense sure is there. And actually he just might chip in offensively if he didn't have to go against top lines with low quality wingers.

As I said earlier, he will take defensive zone faceoffs and top defensive duties and that will open a hell of a lot more chances for Barkov's and Bjugstad's lines.

The worst part about advanced stats is that it's too easy to interpret wrong, and still write an article about it while looking like an advanced stats expert.

 

[Laus723]

A couple of pages ago I checked some stats from extraskater. What easily could be seen was that in all teams he has played in he has played very high quality of competition. Like against the first lines of opposing team. That is very valuable in a third line center as you can leave your offensive lines more offensive minutes. It leads to higher Corsi numbers for the teams scorers and less running in the defensive zone. Also he is very good on PK looking at the stats. Well over anything the Panthers have had to offer. I have a hard time thinking Trochek should jump into this kind of role. But on the other hand, I want somebody else than Barkov/Bjugs to handle the defensive duties to get their energy going towards higher scoring.

Basically Blackhawks, Anaheim, Kings etc. play that way to get more higher percentage chances for their offensive lines. That's also basically the reason for the "mystical" home ice advantage.

So what I expect to happen is that in home games Bollands lines will be matched against the top lines of opponent. That leaves either Barkov or Bjugstad line to play against easy competition. Higher team Corsi ---> more wins. Of course that means Barkov's linemates have to convert shots in to goals more efficiently than last season. Jokinen could help in that as he has had a good SH% earlier in his career.

Bergenheim on Bollands wing could easily get them both around 30 points. That's almost Barkov's last years production with the PK aspect added.

But the important part is that instead of Boyes/Huberdeau/Jokinen/Bjugstad/Barkov/Pirri there can be a true defensive line going to take the defensive zone starts / match-ups. While Barkov was good in that role, it cannot be a good idea to use your best offensive weapon in a shutdown role (though it worked for Minnesota with Mikko Koivu for quite a while).


TLDR:
Good shutdown players don't even need to be offensively gifted to help team offense. They help it by taking the defensive duties from the top lines. That's why I would have been glad to see Komarov on the Panthers for 3.5M even though the main boards said even 3 million by the Leafs was an overpayment.

Good post. Thanks.

 

[I am not exposed]

LOL at the CorsiREL% part of the article. It seems like this dude only looked at Goals for percentage, Relative Corsi and raw point production. And somehow deduced from that data that he is not good defensively .

When you play in a shutdown role with shutdown players (High QoC, low QoT) as Bolland has done, it's obvious you are gonna get outshot by the opponent (low CorsiREL% as third line grinders are going against Getzlaf's, Toews', Crosby's lines) and also get outscored by them (low GF%). It sure doesn't help your Pts/60 or shots on goal stats either.

The offensive production isn't good, but the defense sure is there. And actually he just might chip in offensively if he didn't have to go against top lines with low quality wingers.

As I said earlier, he will take defensive zone faceoffs and top defensive duties and that will open a hell of a lot more chances for Barkov's and Bjugstad's lines.

The worst part about advanced stats is that it's too easy to interpret wrong, and still write an article about it while looking like an advanced stats expert.

I am a little skeptical, but I sure hope you're right.

 

[Hagged]

I am a little skeptical, but I sure hope you're right.

It's OK to be sceptical, actually I encourage it as a scientist . But hope is the correct word how to describe the outcome you can get of looking at "advanced" stats.

I actually like looking at QoC as it gives you an idea of how much your coach trusts in you in defensive situations and it's actually a good indicator on defensive talent. QoC works for most of the time, but there are exceptions when the coach makes questionable decisions such as we saw with Orpik with the Penguins last season .

I don't like zone starts as much as more offensively gifted players obviously get the offensive zone starts to get the shots on goal by the best players, and then it has nothing to do with being "sheltered" as many times people interpret. Only really low o-zone start % tells you that a player is trusted by the coach, but then again the best defensive units are usually matched against the opponent top lines whichever zone the faceoff is taking place (e.g. Winnik-Koivu-Cogliano for a couple of seasons for the Ducks)

I don't like Corsi -stats when looking at individual players, it's quite a good team stat, but disregards QoC and QoT and zone starts that affect the Corsi of the individuals by a ridiculous amount.

Also there are good PP players, and most of us only watch mostly the 5vs5 stats, as it's quite hard to get a handle on what kind of stats should a good PP/PK specialist have, so we only look at their raw production but in reality they might be the worlds best screen who just don't get much deflections or just very good on PK. And as I say most of us, I mean me. And by mostly I mean I don't look at other advanced stats than 5vs5 because that's really the only situation where I can say I have a basic understanding on what kind of stats to expect.

Sorry for the OT, but this post is kind of related to my earlier posts.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

bolland is the perfect player to keep around the young kids, he can teach them all aspects of the game.

he's grittier, pestier etc than goc. goc is probably on par atm, but if bolland gets healthy bolland>

the term and money should be lower, but i guess it was a quite big baby sitter addon

Well in the decade since he was drafted Bolland still has never figured out how to win a faceoff

He is absolutely terrible at it

 

[Beezer]

Although it was for more money then I would have liked, I like adding Bolland to the team. He brings alot of intangeables to the table and will help the young guys as well!

 

[flapanthersfan]

Here's something to show how much of an albatross Bolland's contract really is.

Bolland is a good player. He's almost a mirror image of one of our former players in Marcel Goc. They're perfect third line center. Bolland is slightly more physical.

We got Bolland for $5.5 million per year.

Pittsburgh got Goc for $1.2 million per year.

Bad.

 

[jrockett1096]

Here's something to show how much of an albatross Bolland's contract really is.

Bolland is a good player. He's almost a mirror image of one of our former players in Marcel Goc. They're perfect third line center. Bolland is slightly more physical.

We got Bolland for $5.5 million per year.

Pittsburgh got Goc for $1.2 million per year.

Bad.

Bingo. No cool-aid will make me think different either. Bolland being our top "targeted" player by Tallon and our top free agent incenses me to no end and him making more money than Vrbata (2 years @ 5 million per) is ridiculous. Of course Vrbata would never have signed here as some here say because we have to show we can win and no money offered will be good enough. Vancouver of course missed the playoffs last year and were as disfunctional as we were with a whole lot of drama. This is just all hogwash.

Top scoring winger was our biggest need and we blew it big time. Jokinen was a decent signing and will help but I have a big problem going with these young players and big ifs like Flash and see them just get pummeled and man handled throughout the year. If Tallon wants a mentor than bring better players than what we have have here now who can actually put up points and finish plays that our best players create. I don't want to hear this winner crap like Barkov is going to watch Bollands hustle and its going to transform him into a superstar. What Barkov needed was another gun next to him like a Vrbata who could have taken some pressure off him and finish plays. Now we can see why Gallant was brought on board and not a Laviolette, Blysma, etc. This is another developmental year and no way those guys would have wanted a part of this. Don't blame them either.

 

[vendetta]

Bingo. No cool-aid will make me think different either. Bolland being our top "targeted" player by Tallon and our top free agent incenses me to no end and him making more money than Vrbata (2 years @ 5 million per) is ridiculous. Of course Vrbata would never have signed here as some here say because we have to show we can win and no money offered will be good enough. Vancouver of course missed the playoffs last year and were as disfunctional as we were with a whole lot of drama. This is just all hogwash.

Top scoring winger was our biggest need and we blew it big time. Jokinen was a decent signing and will help but I have a big problem going with these young players and big ifs like Flash and see them just get pummeled and man handled throughout the year. If Tallon wants a mentor than bring better players than what we have have here now who can actually put up points and finish plays that our best players create. I don't want to hear this winner crap like Barkov is going to watch Bollands hustle and its going to transform him into a superstar. What Barkov needed was another gun next to him like a Vrbata who could have taken some pressure off him and finish plays. Now we can see why Gallant was brought on board and not a Laviolette, Blysma, etc. This is another developmental year and no way those guys would have wanted a part of this. Don't blame them either.

u need to seriously understand something... it will keep being a developement year until our young core players are better!!! simple!!! could have brought in vrbata and moulson and guess what.... still a developement year cause in the end they r all comiplimentary pieces to jugs and barkov and hubs and guds and eckblad... the team wont be better until they r better and we wont get many better players to sign here until the team is better... simple... y is this so hard for some to understand?

 

[Anod]

Here's something to show how much of an albatross Bolland's contract really is.

Bolland is a good player. He's almost a mirror image of one of our former players in Marcel Goc. They're perfect third line center. Bolland is slightly more physical.

We got Bolland for $5.5 million per year.

Pittsburgh got Goc for $1.2 million per year.

Bad.

That's a terrible comparison. Bolland has more career points in over 200 less games played. And as much as I like Goc, where the hell was he last year.
Bolland has scored just over a .5 clip over his career with a slew of injuries. Including likely debilitating back injuries early in his career. He is an injury risk for sure but last years injury was a freak accident. Bolland has also scored much closer to a point per game in playoffs. Scoring many important goals. He is a better pker than Goc, considering we were last in the league last year, with Goc at the helm.

Also comparing to Vrbata's contract is kind of dumb, since he is 5 years older, and exiting his prime years. Last year he scored 51 in 80 games, which Is certainly achievable by Bolland, to go along with the other skills he brings.
I do agree that Bollands contract is an over payment, and very risky. But it's not as crazy as people are making it out to be. The cap is going up, Bolland is only 28, he is a great 2 way player with a proven track record in the playoffs.
Why Panthers needed him? Our pk was last in the league, and it would have been stupid for us to run out 4 centers that are all under 24 years old, this will push Bjugstad and Barkov, if injury or sophomore slumps hit either of them we would have been screwed.
It was an over payment but the leafs offered only 2 million less and that's the player Dale Tallon wanted.
I'm still hoping Dale can swing a deal for a good scoring winger, which definitely could happen with all the prospects we have and future draft picks that we can afford to lose. We get that one 1st line winger and we are set for the season, I'm fine with defense, as I really want gudbranson, kulikov and petrovic to have an opportunity this year to break out.
I'm also happy that ownership is spending again!
And I agree with the above post that we live and die by our prospects, much like any other team in the nhl. If Barkov, huberdeau, gudbranson, ekblad, kulikov, bjugstad, etc don't progress neither does the team. The good thing about spending money, is that we don't need all of our prospects to progress, just some of them.

 

[Erased]

. Last year he scored 51 in 80 games, which Is certainly achievable by Bolland, to go along with the other skills he brings.

You have pretty high expectations for someone who has only broken 40 points once in his career.

 

[MintyFresh88]

Here's something to show how much of an albatross Bolland's contract really is.

Bolland is a good player. He's almost a mirror image of one of our former players in Marcel Goc. They're perfect third line center. Bolland is slightly more physical.

We got Bolland for $5.5 million per year.

Pittsburgh got Goc for $1.2 million per year.

Bad.

Sure, Bolland is overpaid by about 1.5-2 million per year, but he's a much better player than Goc ainec. I'm a fan of Goc, by the way, but he's a 4th liner at best. I'd probably even put MacKenzie ahead of Goc (on par with him at worst).

 

[Erased]

Sure, Bolland is overpaid by about 1.5-2 million per year, but he's a much better player than Goc ainec. I'm a fan of Goc, by the way, but he's a 4th liner at best. I'd probably even put MacKenzie ahead of Goc (on par with him at worst).

Goc is not a fourth liner. Even on the stacked penguins he was moved up to the 3rd line.
http://m.wpxi.com/news/news/local/gocs-return-could-make-malkin-new-dupuis/nfj24/