Panarin or Marty St. Louis?

[SeanMoneyHands]

Who was better at their peak?

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[Albatros]

Opportunistic timing, but regardless Saint-Louis was never this good.

 

[Regal]

I feel like Panarin last year or in 19-20 is pretty similar or maybe even better than St.Louis’ 03-04 or 10-11 (which I consider better than his Art Ross in 2013). Still, Panarin hasn’t had a playoff run like St.Louis’ ‘04, and I’d give the edge to Marty for that.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

St Louis won 2 art Ross trophies and was runner up once more. He was a league mvp and extremely instrumental in a cup win.

It's him by a bit

 

[SnowblindNYR]

St Louis won 2 art Ross trophies and was runner up once more. He was a league mvp and extremely instrumental in a cup win.

It's him by a bit

I mean Art Ross is also luck of who is in the league at the time and who is injured. Last year was Panarin's best shot at an Art Ross but he had three healthy legends in front of him. I don't think MSL wins an Art Ross last year either if he was in his prime.

I'd say Panarin is better in the regular season, MSL in the postseason.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

I mean Art Ross is also luck of who is in the league at the time and who is injured. Last year was Panarin's best shot at an Art Ross but he had three healthy legends in front of him. I don't think MSL wins an Art Ross last year either if he was in his prime.

I'd say Panarin is better in the regular season, MSL in the postseason.

MSL won in 04, was 2nd in 2011 and then won in 13. Yeah, there was luck involved like with anything, but to have 3 separate top two scoring finishes over the course of 9 years isn't just getting lucky once. The league still had lots of talent.

Fair or not, you are judged by how you faired in your era. I'm not going to chalk up msl trophies to luck more than anyone else, he earned them

 

[SnowblindNYR]

MSL won in 04, was 2nd in 2011 and then won in 13. Yeah, there was luck involved like with anything, but to have 3 separate top two scoring finishes over the course of 9 years isn't just getting lucky once. The league still had lots of talent.

Fair or not, you are judged by how you faired in your era. I'm not going to chalk up msl trophies to luck more than anyone else, he earned them

And Jamie Benn won in 2015, must be better than Panarin.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

And Jamie Benn won in 2015, must be better than Panarin.

Did he win the Hart? go on to win another scoring title?

 

[CanadienShark]

MSL, but it's close.

 

[PainForShane]

MSL went undrafted and ended up a first ballot HOF player with a couple Art Rosses. The guy squeezed every last drop out of his (listed) 5 foot 8 / 180 pound frame.

Panarin's amazing too, but MSL... imo different level. Still close but MSL gets my vote

 

[SillyRabbit]

Can't see any argument for Panarin.

Not only does St. Louis have better regular season accolades, he was also better in the playoffs than Panarin has been (despite being a small guy who you'd think might struggle in the playoffs).

It's close, however. Panarin is a great player himself.

 

[Albatros]

Can't see any argument for Panarin.

Panarin has almost 300 more points than Saint-Louis at the same age.

 

[Regal]

Panarin has almost 300 more points than Saint-Louis at the same age.

Kind of moot unless we assume Panarin will age as well as someone who had an Art Ross and runner up past the age of 35

 

[Sasha Orlov]

St Louis at the moment but the gap is closing

 

[Voight]

I mean Art Ross is also luck of who is in the league at the time and who is injured. Last year was Panarin's best shot at an Art Ross but he had three healthy legends in front of him. I don't think MSL wins an Art Ross last year either if he was in his prime.

I'd say Panarin is better in the regular season, MSL in the postseason.

In 2004 all the league stars were healthy with the exception of Forsberg.

In 2013, everyone was healthy except for Crosby.

 

[hamzarocks]

In 2004 all the league stars were healthy with the exception of Forsberg.

In 2013, everyone was healthy except for Crosby.

Yeah and both guys were going to lap MSL

Forsberg - 57 pts in 39 games or a 120 pt pace per 82 vs MSL who had less than 100

Crosby - 56 pts in 36 games or 75 pt pace in 48 vs 60 in 48 for MSL

MSL got lucky for his 2013 ross especially while 2004 a lot of league guys had bad years and Forsberg missed over 50% of the year vs only 25% in smaller size like Crosby

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Yeah and both guys were going to lap MSL

Forsberg - 57 pts in 39 games or a 120 pt pace per 82 vs MSL who had less than 100

Crosby - 56 pts in 36 games or 75 pt pace in 48 vs 60 in 48 for MSL

MSL got lucky for his 2013 ross especially while 2004 a lot of league guys had bad years and Forsberg missed over 50% of the year vs only 25% in smaller size like Crosby

Healthy Forsberg didn't even exist past 2003 - he played more than 40 games once and it was 60. It wasn't lucky he got hurt it was the norm.

 

[Fataldogg]

St Louis won 2 art Ross trophies and was runner up once more. He was a league mvp and extremely instrumental in a cup win.

It's him by a bit

Yes, but he didn't need to content with a peak McDavid. Very few players will win the Art Ross contending with McDavid, MacKinnon and Kucherov all in their prime.

 

[DuneGoon84]

MSL went undrafted and ended up a first ballot HOF player with a couple Art Rosses. The guy squeezed every last drop out of his (listed) 5 foot 8 / 180 pound frame.

Panarin's amazing too, but MSL... imo different level. Still close but MSL gets my vote

Different level but close. So, like which is it. I agree it's close and Marty takes it. Just saying

 

[Voight]

Yeah and both guys were going to lap MSL

Forsberg - 57 pts in 39 games or a 120 pt pace per 82 vs MSL who had less than 100

Crosby - 56 pts in 36 games or 75 pt pace in 48 vs 60 in 48 for MSL

MSL got lucky for his 2013 ross especially while 2004 a lot of league guys had bad years and Forsberg missed over 50% of the year vs only 25% in smaller size like Crosby

They were on pace too, but the fact is, they didn't.

 

[Regal]

They were on pace too, but the fact is, they didn't.

And that would be fair if we were looking at Forsberg and Crosby, but that’s not the point. The point is that a players’ season isn’t better or worse simply because the best player was injured and no one else had big seasons. St.Louis didn’t have a McDavid and despite generally healthy competition, no one had a big season those years like Kucherov and MacKinnon last year or Draisaitl in ‘20. St.Louis’ wins were better relative to the pack than Panarin’s ‘20 and ‘24 seasons, but not by much.

St.Louis had a 17.4% and 15.8% lead over the average of the 5-10 scorers while Panarin had 12.4% and 14.7%. If Panarin had those same leads over the 5-10 scorers in ‘04 and ‘13, we’d be looking at him being 2 points back of St.Louis (92 and 58 points), and both of those would have been good enough for the Art Ross if he was there in place of St.Louis. This similarity holds up in the adjusted numbers as well, where Panarin’s years come to 116 and 112 while St.Louis’ are 114 and 109. I think there’s a decent argument that Panarin’s best could have resulted in an Art Ross in a lesser year like ‘02, ‘04, ‘13, ‘15, etc.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Opportunistic timing, but regardless Saint-Louis was never this good.

2 scoring titles says different the eff you talking about MSL was a beast

St Louis at the moment but the gap is closing

Gap isnt even close

 

[Sasha Orlov]

2 scoring titles says different the eff you talking about MSL was a beast


Gap isnt even close

Panarin has outscored his best season 3 times already lmfao calm down

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Panarin has outscored his best season 3 times already lmfao calm down

Playing in a higher scoring era MSL was the better player

 

[KevinFinnerty]

I'm leaning towards MSL for his playoffs. Once Panarin wins a cup I may change my vote. I got Panarin regular season but leaning towards MSL for playoffs