Pack your $#!@ and get out!

[indigobuffalo]

nonis and shanny promised culture change at shanny's first presser

if you keep the coach that means your NTC-less (for the summer) captain is going, the stuff they said after is posturing to keep up his trade value

The fans have a view of what the "culture" is, but I imagine that ownership has another.

They're kind of privy to a unique version of HBO 24/7 that we fans don't get to see, you know, actually running the organization 24/7.

So I wouldn't be so presumptuous about the nature of a culture change requiring either Phaneuf or Carlyle to be cut.

Also, Shanahan wants time to properly assess the team, so making snap moves like ousting your top player (perhaps debatable, but Phaneuf undeniably plays the toughest minutes on the team), wouldn't really make much sense if the goal is to make smart, calculated decisions and not emotionally charged, rushed decisions.

IMO, Carlyle is still under the axe blade, if the Leafs struggle out of the gate or miss the playoffs next season, then Carlyle's days are done in Toronto.

Besides, although I'm the least in favour of ever attempting a tank-season, with a shot a McDavid, I'm not going to cry a river if the Leafs finish in a low-seed again.

 

[Jes5ant]

You can't win a cup with Phaneuf as one of the top 2 player in salary. Your need to prioritize 6.5+ contracts for franchise players. we have one in Kessel. And 95% of the time one of them needs to be a franchise centre.

I would love to see them kill two birds with one stone and move Phaneuf in a deal that get's us in the top 3 in this years draft. Then we can draft our franchise centre of the future. Down the road we can use the money saved in trading Phaneuf to sign that player.

 

[BillyD]

The fans have a view of what the "culture" is, but I imagine that ownership has another.

They're kind of privy to a unique version of HBO 24/7 that we fans don't get to see, you know, actually running the organization 24/7.

So I wouldn't be so presumptuous about the nature of a culture change requiring either Phaneuf or Carlyle to be cut.

Also, Shanahan wants time to properly assess the team, so making snap moves like ousting your top player (perhaps debatable, but Phaneuf undeniably plays the toughest minutes on the team), wouldn't really make much sense if the goal is to make smart, calculated decisions and not emotionally charged, rushed decisions.

IMO, Carlyle is still under the axe blade, if the Leafs struggle out of the gate or miss the playoffs next season, then Carlyle's days are done in Toronto.

Besides, although I'm the least in favour of ever attempting a tank-season, with a shot a McDavid, I'm not going to cry a river if the Leafs finish in a low-seed again.

getting rid of dion would be the opposite of tanking though, it would be going for it

 

[rdawg1234]

You'll find that players in general play better when the pressure's off. However, there's pressure in every game. Just another example of how the "problem" with Dion is blown out of proportion in Bipolar Nation.

Well it's called being clutch.

The great players step up when the pressures on (you know Toews, Kane, Doughty, Subban this playoffs, you could even count Kessel as he's PPG in 21 playoff games)

Phaneuf has continuously shown now that he cant deal with big-game situations. He helped the choke in the playoffs last year(weird pinch in game 4, 5 and bad play at the end of 7) and played horrifically when we were only a few points from the playoffs this season.

I've yet to see him have a great game in a big situation honestly, a few players tend to be like that(ie Rick Nash has been a ghost in the playoffs with NYR).

I used to defend this guy a tonne and still think he's a top pairing guy, but he's not the guy you win with as a #1 and frankly I'd rather get a good package for him and move on then keep dealing with the constant Phaneuf hate, because it's not going to get better for at least a couple seasons as our D-prospects develop, and we dont know how much longer he'll be good for.

 

[rdawg1234]

You can't win a cup with Phaneuf as one of the top 2 player in salary. Your need to prioritize 6.5+ contracts for franchise players. we have one in Kessel. And 95% of the time one of them needs to be a franchise centre.

I would love to see them kill two birds with one stone and move Phaneuf in a deal that get's us in the top 3 in this years draft. Then we can draft our franchise centre of the future. Down the road we can use the money saved in trading Phaneuf to sign that player.

I'm not sure if I'd want to trade him to get Ekblad(which would be a culture-change move as he's at least going to be a #2 like Dion, not sure if he'll be a franchise guy) or get a guy like Bennett.

Tough decision but I would honestly be all for it, I think the time to move on from Dion is now.

 

[DuncanMacpherson]

If you aren't going to give him a star C, Kessel. Secondly Phaneuff, too much cap space. Thirdly, is there still a market for Clarkson now? Fourthly, Kadri, we ruined this kid the whole way. Fifthly Franson, except they say we need a left shot?!!!

The bolded makes no sense, just because we dont have a star center yet we should get rid of our best winger? and how did we ruin kadri, kadri is progressing nicely for a player his age.

 

[rdawg1234]

The bolded makes no sense, just because we dont have a star center yet we should get rid of our best winger? and how did we ruin kadri, kadri is progressing nicely for a player his age.

Personally I don't see any reason to justify trading Kessel right now.

He has proven himself to score in the playoffs, he showed a lot of emotion when they were losing(noone remember the kamikazee goal against NJ when they were trying to come back and win? He was pissed when they lost)

He's also the kind of asset that wont be declining for YEARS, so he will be valuable for a long time he has no injury history, brings 82 games a year of scoring etc.

Phaneuf is arguable as getting rid of him brings a new captain, a culture change and he has always been the subject of criticism in big games. We also dont know how much longer he'll be good, his lack of mobility may hurt him even more within 2-3 years.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Clarkson and Phaneuf.

If there is a god, both of them will be shipped out this summer.

We know how that ends.

 

[Durkin67]

Who would you be most happy to see shipped out of Toronto?

The honourable Lord Mayor Rob Ford.

 

[JackJ]

The fans have a view of what the "culture" is, but I imagine that ownership has another.

They're kind of privy to a unique version of HBO 24/7 that we fans don't get to see, you know, actually running the organization 24/7.

So I wouldn't be so presumptuous about the nature of a culture change requiring either Phaneuf or Carlyle to be cut.

Also, Shanahan wants time to properly assess the team, so making snap moves like ousting your top player (perhaps debatable, but Phaneuf undeniably plays the toughest minutes on the team), wouldn't really make much sense if the goal is to make smart, calculated decisions and not emotionally charged, rushed decisions.

IMO, Carlyle is still under the axe blade, if the Leafs struggle out of the gate or miss the playoffs next season, then Carlyle's days are done in Toronto.

Besides, although I'm the least in favour of ever attempting a tank-season, with a shot a McDavid, I'm not going to cry a river if the Leafs finish in a low-seed again.

Shuffling around the bottom six won't change anything. A few core pieces need to be moved for a culture change to take place.

 

[MajorLeaf]

I'm not sure if I'd want to trade him to get Ekblad(which would be a culture-change move as he's at least going to be a #2 like Dion, not sure if he'll be a franchise guy) or get a guy like Bennett.

Tough decision but I would honestly be all for it, I think the time to move on from Dion is now.

Agreed, it would be the best cap management to somehow get top 3 pick to see if the Maple Leafs can get Ekblad or one of the Sam's.

Phaneuf @ $7 million
Ekblad @ $925,000

That saves the team $6 million over the next two to three years at the very least. The Maple Leafs would be foolish not to make a deal for Phaneuf with one of the top three picks coming back to the Leafs.

 

[The Blue Devil]

We were the worst team from the Olympic Break onwards. From Jan 1 to the end of the season we were a bottom 5 team.

We can get one of the centers WITH Kessel. The only reason we weren't this season is because Bernier playing ridiculous.

I'd much rather draft McDavid, or Eichel, or one of the other 3 top centers in next years draft, to play with Kessel, than, get one of the centers and then saying "boy, I wish we had a top winger to play with ______". Would be the same thing as the whole Sundin era.

Draft Nylander/Ritchie, Trade Lupul, let go of FA's like McClement, Bolland, Kulemin, Franson.

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Nylander/Ritchie - Kadri - Clarkson
Komarov - Holland - D'Amigo
Hartikainen - Carrick - Ashton
Bodie

Gunnar - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Rielly
Gleason - Granberg
Ranger

Bernier.

We likely finish dead last, and get McDavid/Eichel, but we have a lot of youth moving forward, and in the next season, one of the best top lines in JVR, Kessel, and McDavid.

Why throw the 2014 prospect into a ****** situation like that? Probably the best way to ruin someone. Why not just let the prospect stay in the minors and develop further?

 

[MapleLeafs9]

If you aren't going to give him a star C, Kessel. Secondly Phaneuff, too much cap space. Thirdly, is there still a market for Clarkson now? Fourthly, Kadri, we ruined this kid the whole way. Fifthly Franson, except they say we need a left shot?!!!

Oh my god, only in Toronto when a kid puts up 50 points his 2nd year in the NHL is he "ruined".

 

[ToMaLe]

Clarkson
Phaneuf
Reimer
Franson

 

[Leafspoison*]

Who would you be most happy to see shipped out of Toronto?

The Toronto Maple Leafs

 

[rdawg1234]

Agreed, it would be the best cap management to somehow get top 3 pick to see if the Maple Leafs can get Ekblad or one of the Sam's.

Phaneuf @ $7 million
Ekblad @ $925,000

That saves the team $6 million over the next two to three years at the very least. The Maple Leafs would be foolish not to make a deal for Phaneuf with one of the top three picks coming back to the Leafs.

I think it would be a smart move as well, Ekblad will at least be as good as Dion but younger and far cheaper. He has potential to even be better possibly.

Then used the saved capspace on Stastny IMO

 

[notdoneyet]

The culture change as you call it could be

trading Lupul, Kadri and Gardiner who all faltered under RC's system.

Lupul and RC had problems in Anaheim - no need to think it is any better here.

kadri- look at how many games he had 10 mins or less [played. Always in RC's doghouse.

Gardiner- RC's last presser when he said something like you couldnt believe who this guy compared himself to.

I think these are the guys who really didnt buy into his system and will be traded

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Or you keep your elite defenseman and add a couple kids on ELCs. That's how the champs do it.

If Phaneuf is elite, then Bernier and Kessel must be elite. How do we generate such underwhelming results with this elite core?

 

[MorriPage]

As much as Phaneuf frustrated me on a nightly basis, I really would like to see how he'd perform with a legitimate partner and his minutes cut down to around 23 per game. I feel like those two factors could result in us seeing him turn things around.

 

[Gaelman]

Culture change

If the goal is to change the culture of the Leafs then all the players who refused to play a responsible 2 way game should go. They include: Kessel
Phaneuf
Kadri
Gardiner
Lupul

At least trade one of Kessel or Phaneuf otherwise the culture change won't happen.

 

[MorriPage]

If the goal is to change the culture of the Leafs then all the players who refused to play a responsible 2 way game should go. They include: Kessel
Phaneuf
Kadri
Gardiner
Lupul

At least trade one of Kessel or Phaneuf otherwise the culture change won't happen.

Kadri and Gardiner, no way, not unless the return is irresistible. Bernier, Kadri, Rielly, and Gardiner are the only ones I'd want to stay. Everyone else can leave.

 

[ACC1224]

If Phaneuf is elite, then Bernier and Kessel must be elite. How do we generate such underwhelming results with this elite core?

20 Players on the roster every night.

 

[Nithoniniel]

I think it would be a smart move as well, Ekblad will at least be as good as Dion but younger and far cheaper. He has potential to even be better possibly.

Then used the saved capspace on Stastny IMO

I'm not sure if I'd want to trade him to get Ekblad(which would be a culture-change move as he's at least going to be a #2 like Dion, not sure if he'll be a franchise guy) or get a guy like Bennett.

Tough decision but I would honestly be all for it, I think the time to move on from Dion is now.

Just want to let you know that sometimes prospects don't become what they are projected to be. Rather often actually. Especially among defensemen.

 

[Celly Hard]

Phaneuf
Franson

 

[Mess]

Kessel

would represent the change in direction and culture I'm hoping for and would be a significant shift/return

biggest first domino

There use to be a time when one was proud to be a Leaf fan.. When we had an identity with Gilmour of Clark, who lead and bleed out on the ice giving everything they had fighting tooth and nail every shift. It was easy to support them win or lose.

Now essentially Leafs identity is lead by a figure skater, a player that avoids contact like its the plague and darts all over the ice doing pirouettes and worst of all couldn't spell defense let alone play it. The excuse let everybody else do the tough stuff that is required for a team to win while he gets the glory for the goals he scores.

Shanny was a tough as nails player so there is hope that he turns the team into the image of the player he once was and that would start by bringing in more fearless hockey players so the team is not pushed around on the ice and easy to play against getting outworked, outshot and outplayed at regularity.