P.K. Subban

[417]

Who even brings a banana to a hockey game? It's pretty hard to ignore the intent there, anyway. I don't think there's any level of denial that would be convincing. As for the blackface guys... well, I can imagine the ignorance factor and some plausible deniability on the intent there, depending on circumstances. If we're judging on intent. Whether folks are offended or not, I guess up to them, but rather than being offended I'm more kind of just ashamed that in our society we still have either case, be it malicious intent or even just careless ignorance. Both need to go.

Well said...agreed on all counts.

Intent or just Ignorance.

Not an excuse for me, it's not the conversation that should be taking place.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Again...I don't care about intent, you, me or anyone can never prove their intent.

That's not the issue here...BG put it perfectly, it's a shame that today someone didn't have the sense to shut that down, regardless of intent.

Anyways...great piece on ESPN featuring Willy O'ree and PK Subban

Yeah... "it's a shame"...

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Intent or just Ignorance.

Wait, has it come out that either:

a) they actually intended some sort of racist throwback to blackface comedy days
or
b) that they had no idea about blackface comedy, and how they were attempting nothing of the like?

Because I'm willing to bet it was neither ignorance NOR intent. Just over-sensitivity in response, and indignation at presumed ignorance.

 

[Brainiac]

Again...to me, there's no difference between the banana peel toss or the blackface, they're both offensive and deplorable.

One had a clear racist intent and absolutely nothing else. Who brings a banana to a hockey game?

The other was a poor judgment call with absolutely no racist intent.

The fact that you are offended by both is irrelevant. They are two very different things.

Anyways, now I'm off. For real this time. I was just offended that some of you guys assumed people in Quebec don't know about blackface.

 

[loudi94]

Look, it was a show with 5-6 guys doing something like 100 impersonations. They didn't want to leave a guy like PK out of it, but then again, they couldn't hire a black guy for 30 sec. out of a 2h show. They made a questionable call, I agree, but to think there was a racist intent behind it is just wrong.

What if they needed a Chinese guy? Mix up the l and r and voila. It's all good, right.

The point you make about what is offensive is a little off centre. As a white male, there is very little that can offend me. I don't get to say "that's not offensive" when it comes to racial matters.

This notion of blaming people for manufacturing fake outrage over everything is also a bit skewed. Like I said, white male....not too many places in the world or era in which I wouldn't be accepted. I couldn't pretend to understand being discriminated against because of my skin colour or gender. Nor can I be judgemental of others that get offended by things I don't.

 

[417]

Wait, has it come out that either:

a) they actually intended some sort of racist throwback to blackface comedy days
or
b) that they had no idea about blackface comedy, and how they were attempting nothing of the like?

Because I'm willing to bet it was neither ignorance NOR intent. Just over-sensitivity in response, and indignation at presumed ignorance.

I don't really care about intent, I think I've said that about 20x's now

Am I being overly-sensitive? Maybe? Maybe not..maybe I have reason to? It really doesn't matter

Ignoring the root issue is worse than any intentional intent there might of been with that sketch (important to note: not saying there was...)

 

[Foltronic]

What if they needed a Chinese guy? Mix up the l and r and voila. It's all good, right.

The point you make about what is offensive is a little off centre. As a white male, there is very little that can offend me. I don't get to say "that's not offensive" when it comes to racial matters.

This notion of blaming people for manufacturing fake outrage over everything is also a bit skewed. Like I said, white male....not too many places in the world or era in which I wouldn't be accepted. I couldn't pretend to understand beigne discriminated against because of my skin colour or gender. Nor can I be judgemental of others that get offended by things I don't.

eesh, no Irish need apply, no italians etc...be careful when you speak of era.

 

[loudi94]

eesh, no Irish need apply, no italians etc...be careful when you speak of era.

In a way you helped my point. Previously socially accepted references to those cultures are no longer accepted.

I don't think for one minute the skit was meant to offend. However, it was inappropriate based on historical reference. It doesn't call for outrage, but it also can't be defended. A simple "sorry, we f'd up, we won't do it again" and it's done.

Reilly went through it recently with the girl comment. Quick apology and understanding of why it wasn't right and it's over.

 

[Foltronic]

In the grand scheme of things I was nitpicking, but yes they could've been more sensitive.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

In a way you helped my point. Previously socially accepted references to those cultures are no longer accepted.

I don't think for one minute the skit was meant to offend. However, it was inappropriate based on historical reference. It doesn't call for outrage, but it also can't be defended. A simple "sorry, we f'd up, we won't do it again" and it's done.

Reilly went through it recently with the girl comment. Quick apology and understanding of why it wasn't right and it's over.

Wait, back to the times when PK Subban was an indentured slave? Or are you talking about someone's tenuously connected link to a long gone brand of comedy that used make-up very differently to portray a completely different set of messages/values? What's the reference again?

So very different from "the girl comment", too. That was a direct implication that females would be incapable of doing something a man is expected to do, and doing it to another man's satisfaction. More like apples to fish than apples to apples or even oranges. But I think even THAT is being over-sensitive. Alpha male athletes are judged on a different scale than even alpha female athletes (I'm sure that's not the most widely used term, but whatever), and are aware that they're held to a different level of expectation that the "insensitivity" of such comments doesn't erase from reality.

Agree with you, though, that catering to those who would find insensitivity in any of this are often easily assuaged by simple token gestures in the media/public. But as "easy" as it is, I think there are still cases where no one deserves any particular acknowledgement of their concern. This guy who used make-up (instead of attempting to maybe talk "like him", or something even more potentially "offensive") to differentiate himself as PK from other cast members for the intents of a live performance thing certainly seems to be one of those.

 

[Genesis76]

omg...P.k. Subban is once again back in the Norris race

where is Doughty?? WherE???

Subban Norris
Price Vezina, Hart

Markov top 16 in points
Pax top 6 in goals
Gally
Galchenyuk

we have an awesome freaking team, great coach, good system. No one has ego problems.

Boys and girls I think this year is the year.

25th Stanley Cup

We believe.

 

[Nicko999]

omg...P.k. Subban is once again back in the Norris race

where is Doughty?? WherE???

Subban Norris
Price Vezina, Hart

Markov top 16 in points
Pax top 6 in goals
Gally
Galchenyuk
Price top 12-18 goalie

we have an awesome freaking team, great coach, good system. No one has ego problems.

Boys and girls I think this year is the year.

25th Stanley Cup

We believe.

 

[Genesis76]

that was dirty

 

[Smokey Thompson]

Playing like a Norris winner. Should be a candidate but I doubt he will be.

 

[Saundies]

This guy is a horse.. Can't believe there was actually people questioning his worth in the summertime.

Can single-handedly change a game if he puts his mind to it. He's that good.

 

[Brainiac]

Playing like a Norris winner. Should be a candidate but I doubt he will be.

If he keeps it up for the last stretch, it's gonna be hard to ignore him. It's not like the Habs are out of the playoffs and he's cherry picking to get more points. He's contributing big time on one of the Eastern contenders.

 

[Saundies]

If he keeps it up for the last stretch, it's gonna be hard to ignore him. It's not like the Habs are out of the playoffs and he's cherry picking to get more points. He's contributing big time on one of the Eastern contenders.

This is the funny thing about us Habs fans.. We'll ***** and moan about everything under the sun regarding this team, but we've got Carey Price having the season of his life and PK Subban playing like a Norris contender.

When was the last time we could say this? Roy and Chelios? I know we're a demanding market but we've gotta appreciate what we've got right now.

 

[Baruch]

Should he get a couple games rest?
Before the Playoff run?

 

[Brainiac]

This is the funny thing about us Habs fans.. We'll ***** and moan about everything under the sun regarding this team, but we've got Carey Price having the season of his life and PK Subban playing like a Norris contender.

When was the last time we could say this? Roy and Chelios? I know we're a demanding market but we've gotta appreciate what we've got right now.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Brainiac]

Should he get a couple games rest?
Before the Playoff run?

And disagree 100%. Subban is a workhorse. He'll play 28-30 minutes come playoffs tiem.

 

[Lebowski]

I wonder if the fact Subban tends to be a slow starter and picks it up gradually as the season goes on is another string to add to the bow that he may come in from training camp with too much mass.

It's been stated many times that players tend to lose a lot of their weight as the season goes on, and for a guy that likes to carry the puck as much as he does, 220+ pounds for a 6' frame is a lot to carry around.

I wonder how much he'd weigh in at this point.

 

[Kriss E]

I wonder if the fact Subban tends to be a slow starter and picks it up gradually as the season goes on is another string to add to the bow that he may come in from training camp with too much mass.

It's been stated many times that players tend to lose a lot of their weight as the season goes on, and for a guy that likes to carry the puck as much as he does, 220+ pounds for a 6' frame is a lot to carry around.

I wonder how much he'd weigh in at this point.

Well that depends on how much excess fat he came into the season with because muscles don't make you slower. We're not talking about bodybuilding here, we're talking about strength and conditioning training.
Take a look at some of the players in Football, carrying on 220lbs does make you slow in any way, when trained properly of course.

I wouldn't call PK a slow starter. Last year he started looking even better than his Norris year, but then Therrien called him out and started benching him at times.
This year we started him off with Emelin, and quite frankly, whoever was paired with Emelin this year in the top 4 has looked rather weaker. Once he was put with Markov (something we should have kept together last year), he's been looking great.
But PK has gotten a reputation of stepping it up when games matter more. That's not new to this year either. Even when he was younger, and smaller, he just stepped it up.

Right now though, he's playing some truly awesome hockey, although would be great to see him give those demolishing hits again.

 

[Nicko999]

I think PK is learning from playing with Markov. Obviously we know how skilled he is but recently, he's often making the right play even if it's less spectacular. I am blown away by this guy. He's on pace for 63 pts this season.

Just how good PK has been? He's been on the ice for 91 of our 161 goals for. That's 57 % of our goals scored. Leads all D-man. Letang and Karlsson are next at 89 and their % is lower.

 

[Rapala]

And disagree 100%. Subban is a workhorse. He'll play 28-30 minutes come playoffs tiem.

Does anyone notice PK seems to get more stamina as the season progresses?
Not only that He is visually far more mobile even with his sore foot than when he broke camp.

 

[Rapala]

I think PK is learning from playing with Markov. Obviously we know how skilled he is but recently, he's often making the right play even if it's less spectacular. I am blown away by this guy. He's on pace for 63 pts this season.

Just how good PK has been? He's been on the ice for 91 of our 161 goals for. That's 57 % of our goals scored. Leads all D-man. Letang and Karlsson are next at 89 and their % is lower.

I did a longish post by my standards on PK's superiority to Karlsson last year around this time.
The main areas for improvement were:
1) policing ones area in a less frenetic energy saving manner ala Generale...
2) learning to use his stick like a magic wand ala Generale deflecting shots and passes etc...
3) becoming a force to be reckoned with without the puck including driving gaps...
Vintage Markov

PS mind you Marky had a shift last night that brought me back a decade or so.
WTF is up with that?