P.K. Subban

[Adriatic]

Subban is better now at pretty much every aspect of hockey than he was 2 years ago, so much smarter. His game is actually starting to mature and develop all around as it should be.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

No he definetely looks bulkier... and slower.

This is a correct observation. The added bulk has clearly reduced his end to end speed and ability to transport the puck. On the other hand, the added bulk and strength allows Subban to shield the puck effectively from fore-checkers. Subban has many qualities but he will never again be the electric end to end rusher that use to cause fans in other rinks to lustily boo him. And it has nothing to do with coaching.

 

[Blind Gardien]

Just curious BG,

What are your thoughts on the guy? Better now or better before?

He's stronger and more experienced. But he's also very clearly playing worse in general. During the "reining in" process of past years he played better, but paid a heavier price for his mistakes. Now that he is "reined in", he doesn't play as well most of the time, but at least he also doesn't get benched or stuck with Bouillon as the price for his mistakes.

So things could be qualified if anybody spent enough time digging into it. And it's not a huge gulf either way. By and large "better before"... but I predict it's also going to be "better than ever... coming soon"... the games where he is right on top of everything, like last one, and you can see he feels like he's in control and making a difference, that shows it's just a passing phase and soon enough he won't just be as good as he was before, but actually take a new step to an even higher level. I believe it's coming, which is why I'm not particularly concerned that he has overall been a little worse this season.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's stronger and more experienced. But he's also very clearly playing worse in general. During the "reining in" process of past years he played better, but paid a heavier price for his mistakes. Now that he is "reined in", he doesn't play as well most of the time, but at least he also doesn't get benched or stuck with Bouillon as the price for his mistakes.

So things could be qualified if anybody spent enough time digging into it. And it's not a huge gulf either way. By and large "better before"... but I predict it's also going to be "better than ever... coming soon"... the games where he is right on top of everything, like last one, and you can see he feels like he's in control and making a difference, that shows it's just a passing phase and soon enough he won't just be as good as he was before, but actually take a new step to an even higher level. I believe it's coming, which is why I'm not particularly concerned that he has overall been a little worse this season.

I completely agree.

 

[ryan callahan]

Subban is better than what he was in 2013 imo

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Subban is better than what he was in 2013 imo

Well being that he's going to be 26 in a couple months as opposed to then when he was turning 24 shouldn't that be expected?

 

[habscup*]

This is a correct observation. The added bulk has clearly reduced his end to end speed and ability to transport the puck. On the other hand, the added bulk and strength allows Subban to shield the puck effectively from fore-checkers. Subban has many qualities but he will never again be the electric end to end rusher that use to cause fans in other rinks to lustily boo him. And it has nothing to do with coaching.

End to end rushes are fun to watch but they're not the smartest play most of the time. I still would not bet against Subban being able to pull it off in important moments.

 

[CanadienShark]

End to end rushes are fun to watch but they're not the smartest play most of the time. I still would not bet against Subban being able to pull it off in important moments.

Agreed. I think we're seeing Subban follow a similar path to Doughty, which is awesome to see.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

End to end rushes are fun to watch but they're not the smartest play most of the time. I still would not bet against Subban being able to pull it off in important moments.

I think people are remembering the mistakes and forgetting how incredible he was most of the time.

And my God these all star jerseys are freaking awful.

 

[Baruch]

The ASG lacks someone giving a kiss to Pierre's head during these interviews

 

[habscup*]

I think people are remembering the mistakes and forgetting how incredible he was most of the time.

And my God these all star jerseys are freaking awful.

Yes I remember it distinctly. Unfortunately, playing like that all the time is difficult especially mentally. Always worrying about not coughing the puck up. Playing on the edge, protecting the puck one handed skating down the ice. Subban has decided to cut down on that for two reasons. Not to make as many mistakes that could end up costly and of course because of Therrien's punishments.

 

[the]

PKKKKKKKK SUUUUBBAAAANNNNN!!!

*Yes I'm drunk!

 

[ChesterNimitz]

End to end rushes are fun to watch but they're not the smartest play most of the time. I still would not bet against Subban being able to pull it off in important moments.

End to end skating ability is the surest way to gain entry and possession in the offensive zone during the power play. Our inability to effect this smooth entry on a regular basis is the main reason our power play is suffering. Subban, regrettably, does not have the skating ability to carry the puck in on a regular basis. Until Montreal addresses this shortcoming, their power play will sputter.

 

[habscup*]

End to end skating ability is the surest way to gain entry and possession in the offensive zone during the power play. Our inability to effect this smooth entry on a regular basis is the main reason our power play is suffering. Subban, regrettably, does not have the skating ability to carry the puck in on a regular basis. Until Montreal addresses this shortcoming, their power play will sputter.

Subban can do it if he needs to like he showed last game. A dman is not supposed to be the main guy to carry the puck into the offensive zone on the pp.

 

[Lebowski]

Anyone heard the Ray Lalonde interview just now on Bonsoir les sportifs?

Says the previous hockey administration went above and beyond to keep him away from the spotlight, trying to "hide" him.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Anyone heard the Ray Lalonde interview just now on Bonsoir les sportifs?

Says the previous hockey administration went above and beyond to keep him away from the spotlight, trying to "hide" him.

Who's Ray Lalonde? And are you referring to PK Subban?

I think he doesn't get much respect around the league because he hasn't earned it much in terms of being a mature, serious, leader-type. If the reports of him being late to practice are true then it'll only go to show how far he is from earning that respect and that stature.

 

[Lebowski]

Ray Lalonde is the ex Habs' VP of marketing and sales.

And obviously, I'm referring to PK. I don't get why you're bringing up the respect around the league thing.

 

[DAChampion]

Glad to know i'm not the only one who noticed Subban's decline.

It might be Therrien's system.

 

[Mrb1p]

Most people in the hockey world just regurgitate the platitudes fed to them, that's why, they don't actually watch every minute of every game, every season. Opinions on PK Subban are usually one thing I find to be an easy way of telling who is really watching and who is just following headlines and highlights shows.

Glad to know i'm not the only one who noticed Subban's decline.

It might be Therrien's system.

Therrien's system or the constant pressure by everyone of these so called experts who've been wailing on every offensive Dman picturing them as "Risky".

It's like they think being defensively responsible and being an offensive defenseman are mutually exclusive.

Bobby Orr is heralded as the best player in the world sometimes and he played the most offensive style out of all of the defensemen of his time, yet he was also a rock when he had to play defensively and he didn't have the puck.

I strongly believe this was the case with 2013 Subban and I strongly believe he can still be at that level. The media pressure and the pressure from the coaching staff/management seems to have changed something special into something stale. Every body want's to have Nicklas Lidstrom on their team, but nobody wants him when the choice is Lidstrom or Orr.

I'm not comparing any of those players to Subban, btw. He is his own beast ultimately I just believe that the two player we've seen over the last couple season have similar playing style to these two and it fits my analogy.

 

[Gally Idol]

Glad to know i'm not the only one who noticed Subban's decline.

It might be Therrien's system.

Yes, Subban is not dominant as he should be, but I do not agree to blame the Therrien's system for this regression. Normally any good player can adapt to a new system.

 

[CanadianLover]

Anyone heard the Ray Lalonde interview just now on Bonsoir les sportifs?

Says the previous hockey administration went above and beyond to keep him away from the spotlight, trying to "hide" him.

It looks like the NHL is using the same tactic. Pathetic!

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Subban can do it if he needs to like he showed last game. A dman is not supposed to be the main guy to carry the puck into the offensive zone on the pp.[/QUOTE]

Really? I think Orr, Robinson, Coffey, Bourque, Niedermayer, Leetch, Karleson, Keith, Lapointe, Salming, Chelios, Housley, Rafalski, Boyle, Turnbull and Salming, to name just a few, would disagree. The position of the player is really irrelevant to this writer's point. In the 70's, Montreal had a plethora of players capable of transporting the puck into the offensive zone, including the 'Big Three' and forwards like Lafleur and Mahovolich. Whether he plays up as a forward or plays defence, Subban is incapable of consistently performing this role. There has been a clear regression in Subban's straight line skating speed. This drop off is blatantly obvious in watching his play and seeing how much difficulty he has in beating the first forechecker and how many times he is forced to merely flipping the puck out when pressed in the defensive zone. Like others, I attribute this drop off to his bulking up over the past two years. This is not a criticism of Subban but merely an observation. He is still a great player. But he never will be the dashing puck transporter who controls the flow of play with his pure skating ability.

 

[Talks to Goalposts]

Subban can do it if he needs to like he showed last game. A dman is not supposed to be the main guy to carry the puck into the offensive zone on the pp.[/QUOTE]

Really? I think Orr, Robinson, Coffey, Bourque, Niedermayer, Leetch, Karleson, Keith, Lapointe, Salming, Chelios, Housley, Rafalski, Boyle, Turnbull and Salming, to name just a few, would disagree. The position of the player is really irrelevant to this writer's point. In the 70's, Montreal had a plethora of players capable of transporting the puck into the offensive zone, including the 'Big Three' and forwards like Lafleur and Mahovolich. Whether he plays up as a forward or plays defence, Subban is incapable of consistently performing this role. There has been a clear regression in Subban's straight line skating speed. This drop off is blatantly obvious in watching his play and seeing how much difficulty he has in beating the first forechecker and how many times he is forced to merely flipping the puck out when pressed in the defensive zone. Like others, I attribute this drop off to his bulking up over the past two years. This is not a criticism of Subban but merely an observation. He is still a great player. But he never will be the dashing puck transporter who controls the flow of play with his pure skating ability.

I respect the fact that you have an opinion, but observable evidence indicates that is the opposite of what is actually taking place on the ice.

A person tracked zone entries from defensemen last season, I believe Subban was basically tied with Campbell for being the 2nd most successful defenseman in the league at it behind only Karlsson.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/581116

Subban is basically the definition of a player that can carry the puck up the ice successfuly to enter the zone.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Glad to know i'm not the only one who noticed Subban's decline.

It might be Therrien's system.

Decline, seriously? haha. I think the early seasons struggles of Subban are heavily skewing peoples opinions here. He had a 15-20 game stretch where he wasn't the usual PK, but since then he's been pretty much the usual, dominant PK Subban. His even strength numbers are amongst the best in the league for dman, the PP is coming around and PK's been a big reason why.

Things to consider, PK isn't be misused like he was previously by MT, getting sheltered minutes and void of penalty killing minutes. He's playing in all situations again, dominating 5vs5, although not to the extent we have seen before, but he's playing all the top lines every night with no sheltering. He's once again proving he's a very effective PK player and now his PP numbers are starting to improve again.

I think you're using the term "decline" a bit too loosely here. He struggled for a bit, but there was never a doubt he'd get back on track and that is what we have been seeing for the last 20-30 games. The odd stinker here and there is to be expected from any player, but most often, he's the best on the ice.

There's definitely no decline going on here, there is however, more responsibility against tougher competition and once again he is excelling like we all knew he could.

 

[Alexdaman]

Yes, Subban is not dominant as he should be, but I do not agree to blame the Therrien's system for this regression. Normally any good player can adapt to a new system.

You guys have short memories. What we heard on Subban was WAY worst last year.