P.K. Subban

[Smokey Thompson]

I wouldn't. Subban puts Weber in his back pocket in the playoffs.

I was a huge Detroit fan when they were out West (hate that they're now in our division...) and I can testify that Weber was a huge pain in the ass in the playoffs. He was usually the only reason the Preds would win games... He can impact a game offensively but can also crush your best players with open ice hits and hits along the boards. He is very dominant in the playoffs. He's like a meaner (and younger obviously) version of Chara.

 

[habscup*]

I was a huge Detroit fan when they were out West (hate that they're now in our division...) and I can testify that Weber was a huge pain in the ass in the playoffs. He was usually the only reason the Preds would win games... He can impact a game offensively but can also crush your best players with open ice hits and hits along the boards. He is very dominant in the playoffs. He's like a meaner (and younger obviously) version of Chara.

So can Subban. Except Subban is better offensively in the playoffs by a big margin especially in the most important moments.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

So can Subban. Except Subban is better offensively in the playoffs by a big margin especially in the most important moments.

This is true, but saying he puts Weber in his backpocket in the playoffs is a huge overstatement. You can't go wrong with either PK, Weber, or Doughty in the playoffs. Personally I'd take Doughty but that's just my opinion.

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[Redux91]

One performance? More like 3 post seasons, his first one where he came in as a rookie and shut down Ovechkin and company and had 8 points in 14 games. Then in 2011 he had a point per game against Boston AND scored the tying goal in game 7 with a freakin lazer with 1 minute to go. And then there's 2014 where he simply dominated. (In 2013 he again had a ppg against Ottawa and was the only player basically who was playing well for the habs, him and Bourque). Anybody who makes comment like you just did makes me question if that person has watched Subban at all.

While i completely agree and well said by the way, i feel the exact same way about subban and his playoffs so far, what stood out to me about pk right away was that immediate impact he had as a 20 year old rookie in 2010 in the postseason, especially after markov went down (its too bad markov rly was never the same after that), but like you said, every single postseason he has stood out in SOME way and in a good way most of the time, which is just awesome for us by the way (we need max to start doing the same)

but take it easy on pricepatchpk, hes cool, he just got this one wrong be humble

 

[habsfanatics*]

Possession wise he's not near to the level he was at. Again, really great player and I love him. But in 2013 he had the puck all the time. The PK we saw in the 2nd half of the Nashville game was the guy we saw all the time in 2013. He was insane. Not saying he isn't good now just wasn't as crazy good as he was when he was allowed to carry the puck.

Possession Numbers

2013 (Min 500 minutes) Rank among blueliners

CF% 57 percent (6th)
CF%^ RelTM 6.0 (5th)

FF% 58.5 (2nd)
FF% Reltm 6.9 (4th)
-----------------------------------------------
2015 (Min 500 minutes)

CF% 51.7 percent (53rd)
CF%^ RelTM 5.0 (8th)

FF% 51.1 (83rd)
FF% Reltm 3.8 (20th)

Quality of competition?

 

[Foltronic]

Not true.

He was a game breaker in 2013. Like Malkin is, like Crosby is, like Orr was.

Now ? He plays a safer game for sure, but that doesn't make him a better player.

Most people think that a mistake made while trying to make a play is always equal to a bad play and therefore, a bad game. While this is not exactly wrong that it is indeed a bad play, I'd much rather get 10 chances to score and let him make 1 mistake giving the opponent one chance than seeing him play safe like he does now and make a mistake every ten games. We have a Ferrari and we swapped the engine for a prius one, since it was too expensive to drive.

We went fro 3.04 goals a game, for fourth in the league to 2.50 a game, for 21 in the league. Like you just said, everything on the ice goes through PK, and to an extent, Markov. Tell them to play safe and our offense dies. We don't have the talent up front to let Subban and Markov play that kind of game and we surely don't have the system to play that type of game.

I'd argue the team is better off with him playing the more rounded mature game he's developed this season. The team's record is great, and no for every 10 chances he used to take there were more than just 1 mistake coming back the other way. This has to be a joke, right? Swapping a ferrari engine for a prius one??? I question whether you've even watched him play this year. Guy's an absolute beast and he's getting better as the season is progressing, which is exactly what you want from your superstar player(s).

 

[sharks9]

Quality of competition?

2012-13

Corsi Rel QoC: 0.026 (4th on our team)

2014-15

Corsi Rel QoC: 0.945 (2nd on our team)

He's facing WAY harder competition this year but still excelling at controlling possession against them.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Quality of competition?

Harder this year for sure.

 

[ryan callahan]

Why is everyone saying Subban is having a bad year. He's on pace for 20 goals (amazing for a D) and 58 points. Also, he's doing pretty good defensively. Sometimes he makes some great plays but sometimes he is doing giveaway. Only giveaways are mentionned, which is sad. He's worth the whole 9 millions imo

 

[Malreg]

Why is everyone saying Subban is having a bad year. He's on pace for 20 goals (amazing for a D) and 58 points. Also, he's doing pretty good defensively. Sometimes he makes some great plays but sometimes he is doing giveaway. Only giveaways are mentionned, which is sad. He's worth the whole 9 millions imo

Extremely high expectations after the contract he signed.

He was struggling at the start of the season, but his play has improved over the last few weeks.

 

[mustardnight*]

Extremely high expectations after the contract he signed.

He was struggling at the start of the season, but his play has improved over the last few weeks.

"struggling"

 

[Jigger77]

Why is everyone saying Subban is having a bad year. He's on pace for 20 goals (amazing for a D) and 58 points. Also, he's doing pretty good defensively. Sometimes he makes some great plays but sometimes he is doing giveaway. Only giveaways are mentionned, which is sad. He's worth the whole 9 millions imo

Because they think he needs to look flashy like Bobby Orr and do end to end rushes all the time. In other words, lack of understanding of the fundamentals of playing defense, basically.

He's not standing out as much as he used to. Ironically that makes him a more rounded defenseman not the other way around.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Why is everyone saying Subban is having a bad year. He's on pace for 20 goals (amazing for a D) and 58 points. Also, he's doing pretty good defensively. Sometimes he makes some great plays but sometimes he is doing giveaway. Only giveaways are mentionned, which is sad. He's worth the whole 9 millions imo

Who's saying he's having a bad year?

Because they think he needs to look flashy like Bobby Orr and do end to end rushes all the time. In other words, lack of understanding of the fundamentals of playing defense, basically.

He's not standing out as much as he used to basically. Ironically that makes him a more rounded defenseman not the other way around.

He was better in 2013 without a doubt. MT didn't use him on the PK for some reason and he may have sheltered him more than he should've but that PK Subban was the best blueliner in the game bar none. Now he's really good but he's in the top ten somewhere, not the best which is what he's capable of. And I'd say he was actually a better blueliner under Martin than he is now.

 

[Habsawce]

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=732922

Subban dangling and hanging with the best of em! He's becoming a global ambassador of the game with the top guys (Toews, Crosby, Lundqvist, Kane)

 

[Skip Bayless]

Who's saying he's having a bad year?

He was better in 2013 without a doubt. MT didn't use him on the PK for some reason and he may have sheltered him more than he should've but that PK Subban was the best blueliner in the game bar none. Now he's really good but he's in the top ten somewhere, not the best which is what he's capable of. And I'd say he was actually a better blueliner under Martin than he is now.

He was more spectacular in the past, not necessarily as well rounded as he is right now. One of Subban's main problems when he came into the league is that he was so good at fixing his own mistakes thanks to his athleticism, but he did make bonehead plays that you don't wanna see from a top blueliner. It was just spectacular the way he played so it wow'd everyone except his teammates and the coaches.

I still think he's a better player when he's more willing to take more calculated risks, but the inconsistency of our defence squad and our defensive game overall requires him to play more conservatively. He knows this, it's not even the coach who tells him to play that way. Coaches just want the players to make the best decisions in order to benefit the team. Wether it's time to play conservative or let loose, it's Subban who decides, the coach is just there to remind him that the team comes first when he does something mega-boneheaded. He's figuring it out and still getting great results.

 

[Jigger77]

He stopped trying for the big hit at the blue line using his back like he used to do too now. Kind of sucks from a fan perspective to be honest because it was spectacular, but more often than not he just took himself completely out of position doing that, so probably for the better.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Oh and his PK usage back then was more about managing his ice time and getting as much offense as they could from him.

People often forget that Gainey's/Gauthier's inheritance was crap in the depth department at all levels. We had good pieces, but no depth at all.

 

[JusticeBeaver]

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=732922

Subban dangling and hanging with the best of em! He's becoming a global ambassador of the game with the top guys (Toews, Crosby, Lundqvist, Kane)

Also, here.



Definitely not an all star.

 

[Skip Bayless]

He stopped trying for the big hit using his back like he used to do too now. Kind of sucks from a fan perspective to be honest, but more often than not he just took himself completely out of position doing that, so probably for the better.

He replaced that hit with the fake hit and anticipation/aggressiveness on the blue line, which is textbook hockey. Less spectacular, but much more effective.

Notice how he creates tons of turnovers in the neutral zone thanks to this and how often he creates offsides. When you see this from Subban, you know he's having a good game.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He was more spectacular in the past, not necessarily as well rounded as he is right now. One of Subban's main problems when he came into the league is that he was so good at fixing his own mistakes thanks to his athleticism, but he did make bonehead plays that you don't wanna see from a top blueliner. It was just spectacular the way he played so it wow'd everyone except his teammates and the coaches.

I still think he's a better player when he's more willing to take more calculated risks, but the inconsistency of our defence squad and our defensive game overall requires him to play more conservatively. He knows this, it's not even the coach who tells him to play that way. Coaches just want the players to make the best decisions in order to benefit the team. Wether it's time to play conservative or let loose, it's Subban who decides, the coach is just there to remind him that the team comes first when he does something mega-boneheaded. He's figuring it out and still getting great results.

Overall he was a much better player. Yes, he would lose the puck sometimes but you take the good with the bad and he was much, much more effective back then.

That's not to say he hasn't improved in certain areas though. Going for the big hits, he doesn't do anymore and that's not necessarily a bad thing. He will improve in those areas as he matures but overall?

Way, way better before though. He's a puck carrying blueliner and that's how he should be used. When he's allowed to do this the puck is in the other team's end, not ours. Even if it means some mistakes I'll take it because overall you get way more out of it.

 

[Jigger77]

He replaced that hit with the fake hit and anticipation/aggressiveness on the blue line, which is textbook hockey. Less spectacular, but much more effective.

Notice how he creates tons of turnovers in the neutral zone thanks to this and how often he creates offsides. When you see this from Subban, you know he's having a good game.

Yep, holding the blue line. Staying square to a guy and using your stick and body positioning to break up plays in the neutral zone isn't as flashy, but it gets the exact same results with the added benefit of not taking yourself out of the play.

 

[DAChampion]

Oh and his PK usage back then was more about managing his ice time and getting as much offense as they could from him.

People often forget that Gainey's/Gauthier's inheritance was crap in the depth department at all levels. We had good pieces, but no depth at all.

Gainey squandered their inheritance.

Hainsey, Beauchemin, Streit, Sourray, Komisarek, McDonagh all lost for nothing.

Awful GM.

 

[Jigger77]

Overall he was a much better player. Yes, he would lose the puck sometimes but you take the good with the bad and he was much, much more effective back then.

That's not to say he hasn't improved in certain areas though. Going for the big hits, he doesn't do anymore and that's not necessarily a bad thing. He will improve in those areas as he matures but overall?

Way, way better before though. He's a puck carrying blueliner and that's how he should be used. When he's allowed to do this the puck is in the other team's end, not ours. Even if it means some mistakes I'll take it because overall you get way more out of it.

What do you mean by carry the puck exactly? You want him to gain the zone each time he has the puck?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

What do you mean by carry the puck exactly? You want him to gain the zone each time he has the puck?

I'd like him to carry the puck the way he did in 2013.