P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

[DAChampion]

The "rubbing his nose in it" is the only explanation I can think of from MB's position. They want to PK to bow down to them... I can't think of any other reason for making this kind of lowball offer.

Not a real smart way to deal with a player you're counting on for the future.

I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.

 

[Forsead]

I felt that way a couple of weeks ago as well but we've seen the same numbers repeated over and over. I think it's safe to assume that they are somewhat accurate.


Well, the guy's been holding out for a while now. I don't see how they wouldn't have come up already. Sure seems like the club isn't budging. And it really seems like we've boxed ourselves into a corner as now if we come down it looks like the GM 'lost' the standoff.


I think there's enough information out there that we at least have an idea of where the two sides are at. It's been consistently reported that we want 2 years at 5 and that PK wants 2 or 3 mil more per season.

There was 10 times more journalist and ''experts'' covering the lockout and there was most of what was reported was complete BS. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case, I have such a low opinion about theses clowns.

 

[29dryden29]

Its creating unecessary conflict with a player we're trying to build our blueline around. There's nothing intelligent about doing this at all.

I can understand making him sit if he was asking for 6 or 7 million. But that's not the case...

Players of his calibre are making 5 million a season. He's a first pairing blueliner which easily puts him at that price.

By saying 3.5 max you are seriously hurting your own credibility. What's shocking though is that the Canadiens aren't even offering this much. Now we've got an unnecessary showdown coming. Not sure if you are actually a fan of the Montreal Canadiens but if you are then you shouldn't be happy about this. We've gone down a totally stupid path for absolutely no reason.

I have been a HABS fan since the 60s I have seen some incredible teams and some terrible teams and some great minds runnign the show and some terrible ones. No player should ever especially as an RFA be making demands of his management. I know quite a few guys playing in the NHL now and overseas they all think it is a joke on both sides really. Now that being said when it comes to a team mandated way of doing business coming off an ELC you deal with it and move on. You work hard and make bank on your next deal.

 

[Hoople]

Bergevin is being an idiot in regards to Subban, that is a fact-based opinion.

If you like this team, thank Gauthier.

Holy ****. This is the best one yet.

Thank Gauthier?

That's like thanking your girlfriend who cheated on you for giving you herpes which forced you to go to the doctor who diagnosed your hernia. And when you had the hernia surgery, the surgeon left the scalpel inside your body and you sued him and collected $100,000 dollars.

You may look at the present as beneficial but it was a hell of a painful ride getting there.

And yes, your opinion. No better than my opinion.

 

[CN_paladin]

Wow does OReilly have Meehan as agent as well? Bergevin can't back down now or else everyone will start holding out for bigger contracts in the future...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't think PK will request a trade straight-up.

It's most likely going to be ''I will go as low as ___ & if you can't sign me than trade me''.

I would speculate that in this scenario MB starts to reconsider his offer.

Do any of you see him having the balls to pull the trigger on a trade? Think realistically and take into consideration the risk of public backlash (minus old fart anti-chambre people / viewers).

I'd be more scared if he was our GM for the longest of times and had tons of experience and backing. Right now, MB is given the vote of confidence by Molson but he has no GM track record that he can rely on if his gamble fails.

All it takes is PK finishing off the season with a 2nd team playing great hockey and helping them in the playoffs and even the old grumpy media will go from "PK is cancer'' to "we should of kept him".

So it's in this simplistic view that I see PK returning.

If he demands a trade the opinions on Antichambre won't mean **** to him.

I don't know what kind of guy PK is. Maybe he accepts the lowball offer or maybe he comes back the way you say he might. Then again, maybe he's sat through this weekend wondering why the club is trying to rip him off and he comes back and says **** you and your stupid offer, trade me.

Any any of those three scenarios it's not good.

I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.

That's an even scarier thought. In that case our GM has no idea how to evaluate talent. And if he doesn't realize the value of PK and trades him away, we're likely to get nowhere near equal value for him.

There was 10 times more journalist and ''experts'' covering the lockout and there was most of what was reported was complete BS. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the case, I have such a low opinion about theses clowns.

I hope you're right.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.

Oh god I hope not. That's a pretty terrible bet.

 

[Forsead]

I have been a HABS fan since the 60s I have seen some incredible teams and some terrible teams and some great minds runnign the show and some terrible ones. No player should ever especially as an RFA be making demands of his management. I know quite a few guys playing in the NHL now and overseas they all think it is a joke on both sides really. Now that being said when it comes to a team mandated way of doing business coming off an ELC you deal with it and move on. You work hard and make bank on your next deal.

Even if he wasn't wasn't a RFA (?? I think) and he had proven alot you have to admit that was another period and it was completly unheard of, but Dryden one of the team legend and a loved player (he's even your nickname) held out for an entire season to get the contract he wanted, which is kind of worse.

 

[Et le But]

I'm not sure they're counting on him for the future.

They have Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz, up front; and last summer there were those reports saying they wanted to find out how good Beaulieu and Tinordi could become before deciding how to incorporate Subban into their plans.

It may be that they're hedging their bets, that they're hoping both Beaulieu and Tinordi succeed so that they no longer need Subban, because they don't want Subban.

I think Morgan Ellis is also making a case for himself as a solid prospect, though the media never talks about him.

Tinordi and Beaulieu are above average prospects, Ellis is solid and Thrower/Dietz are decent, but any of them will be lucky to be 75% the player Subban is. Subban was a winning lotto ticket, you don't throw that out unless you know you can make a great trade, are a control freak beyond reason or a racist.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I have been a HABS fan since the 60s I have seen some incredible teams and some terrible teams and some great minds runnign the show and some terrible ones. No player should ever especially as an RFA be making demands of his management.

I see. So they should just sign whatever contract is put in front of them then?

Yeah right...

I know quite a few guys playing in the NHL now and overseas they all think it is a joke on both sides really. Now that being said when it comes to a team mandated way of doing business coming off an ELC you deal with it and move on. You work hard and make bank on your next deal.

So if the Habs had offered him the league minimum then PK should just sign it and work hard to make bank on his next deal?

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[DAChampion]

Oh god I hope not. That's a pretty terrible bet.

Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen both got fabulous contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen got contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.

Where is the "character" in lowballing a player who's earned more than you're offering him?

 

[Hoople]

Tinordi and Beaulieu are above average prospects, Ellis is solid and Thrower/Dietz are decent, but any of them will be lucky to be 75% the player Subban is. Subban was a winning lotto ticket, you don't throw that out unless you know you can make a great trade, are a control freak beyond reason or a racist.

The race card is lame.

Wait a minute........Gomez is Hispanic.

Whoa. What about Jamal Mayers in Chicago? I bet Bergevin hated him.

 

[coolasprICE]

If he demands a trade the opinions on Antichambre won't mean **** to him.

I don't know what kind of guy PK is. Maybe he accepts the lowball offer or maybe he comes back the way you say he might. Then again, maybe he's sat through this weekend wondering why the club is trying to rip him off and he comes back and says **** you and your stupid offer, trade me.

Any any of those three scenarios it's not good.

I have no doubt it will be ''pay me this much ---- or trade me''. PK has already acknowledged to the media the real possibility of being traded but at this point in the negotiations I'm not sure that both partieshave talked about ''trade''. Next 24 hours is where this can change.

Again, this is my speculation, but I think MB will figure out a way to get him signed and in in attempt to save face he'll cover up this mess by making it look like it was done on purpose in good faith to humble PK.

 

[Hockey Team]

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

When was he hired?

From what I read I think one of the reasons why he wants to do a bridge contract is "he hasn't seem him play enough" yet, and wants to watch him play more before making a contract decision.

If that's the case, that's a pretty sorry excuse. I find it hard to believe the team doesn't have video of every single game they played for the last few years.

 

[29dryden29]

Even if he wasn't wasn't a RFA (?? I think) and he had proven alot you have to admit that was another period and it was completly unheard of, but Dryden one of the team legend and a loved player (he's even your nickname) held out for an entire season to get the contract he wanted, which is kind of worse.

Dryden is my all time fav player and his holdout I hold in high regard as asinine. I no longer give a rats ass about the names on the back of the jersey for me it is about the one on the front. If you don't want to play here then GTFO I say. We need a better GM and an owner that isn't afraid of what the god damn french media will think or say. We need some people that can be more like Pollack. We have to start to build the respect back into this franchise and as fans demand a better on and off ice product. Players holding out because they think they SHOULD get more money is not going to help anything.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I have no doubt it will be ''pay me this much ---- or trade me''. PK has already acknowledged the real possibility of being traded but at this point in the negotiations I'm not sure that both parties are talking about ''trade''. Next 24 hours is where this can change.

Again, this is my speculation, but I think MB will figure out a way to get him signed and in in attempt to save face he'll cover up this mess by making it look like it was done on purpose in good faith to humble PK.

The whole situation is just so stupid and unnecessary.

 

[coolasprICE]

The race card is lame.

Wait a minute........Gomez is Hispanic.

Whoa. What about Jamal Mayers in Chicago? I bet Bergevin hated him.

And Byfuglien

 

[Forsead]

Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen both got fabulous contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.

I think it's more that he heard things about Subban and that's why he really want to have a short term deal to have a strong report from Therrien and to see himself what is the truth and if there is a problem if that can be worked on.

I think he just don't and can't know if Subban really has his type of ''character'' or not and if he can count on the guy in his long terms plans.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Dryden is my all time fav player and his holdout I hold in high regard as asinine. I no longer give a rats ass about the names on the back of the jersey for me it is about the one on the front. If you don't want to play here then GTFO I say. We need a better GM and an owner that isn't afraid of what the god damn french media will think or say. We need some people that can be more like Pollack. We have to start to build the respect back into this franchise and as fans demand a better on and off ice product. Players holding out because they think they SHOULD get more money is not going to help anything.

So again... these players should just accept the league minimum? Is that what you're saying?

 

[DAChampion]

I think it's more that he heard things about Subban and that's why he really want to have a short term deal to have a strong report from Therrien and to see himself what is the truth and if there is a problem if that can be worked on.

I think he just don't and can't know if Subban really has his type of ''character'' or not and if he can count on the guy in his long terms plans.

OK, but if that's true, then he should offer him decent value, nothing south of 3.75 million.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think it's more that he heard things about Subban and that's why he really want to have a short term deal to have a strong report from Therrien and to see himself what is the truth and if there is a problem if that can be worked on.

I think he just don't and can't know if Subban really has his type of ''character'' or not and if he can count on the guy in his long terms plans.

Still doesn't make sense. Sign him long term for 5 mil per. Nobody doubts his talents on the ice and if he doesn't fit into your plans behidn the scenes then deal him. If you do it this way you're dealing from a position of strength.

 

[Forsead]

OK, but if that's true, then he should offer him decent value, nothing south of 3.75 million.

Like I said I stongly believe that if the numbers that are reported are true (which in my opinions is far from being sure) then in my mind Bergevin is offering 2,5 per year for 2 years, because he thought Meehan would ask for 5 millions per year for 2 year and to meet in the middle at 3,75 per year for 2 years in a classic negotiation tactic.

 

[Frozenice]

Holy ****. This is the best one yet.

Thank Gauthier?

That's like thanking your girlfriend who cheated on you for giving you herpes which forced you to go to the doctor who diagnosed your hernia. And when you had the hernia surgery, the surgeon left the scalpel inside your body and you sued him and collected $100,000 dollars.

You may look at the present as beneficial but it was a hell of a painful ride getting there.

And yes, your opinion. No better than my opinion.

Bergevin is like the waitress who serves you your meal and sprinkles some grated parmesan cheese on it and lights the candle at your table. You say thank you to her, too but the meal is either good or bad depending on the people who did all the work before she carried the plate all the way to your table.

 

[coolasprICE]

Thing is: Bergevin values "character".

That's why both Prust and Moen both got fabulous contracts.
That's why he had a mancrush on Shane Doan in the summer, even as the superior Alexander Semin was available, or Jaromir Jagr the legitimate 1-year option.

And that may be why he doesn't want Subban in the organization.

I agree.

I just hope that MB's low ball offer is based on what he perceives are issues with PK's character and not based on doubt about PK's talent or potential.

I mean, both are stupid reasons but if he is really doubting PK's abilities on the ice we are majorly ****ed as a fan base.