P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

[Hoople]

No give him 6 million per and screw your team for the future. And posters wonder why we have no money to get free agents. Gally and Tinordi will get 6 million in a few years. You actually have to work the cap to build a winning team.

This is what you get when we have been following a team that has been led by two poor GM's over the last decade.

No clue from many as to how to build a championship contending Canadiens team.

I agree with you 100%.

Except for the past 8 months all he's been offered is 2.1 and 2.9 million. He can't sign a 3.5/year contract (still underpayment) if it's not even being offered.

Do you have a quote from Bergevin regarding what he is offering?

 

[Habsawce]

This is what you get when we have been following a team that has been led by two poor GM's over the last decade.

No clue from many as to how to build a championship contending Canadiens team.

I agree with you 100%.



Do you have a quote from Bergevin regarding what he is offering?

It was reported by multiple people yesterday that it is the exact same offer that was made in May.

 

[Kriss E]

Do you have a quote from Bergevin regarding what he is offering?

It was reported on the Hot Stove last weekend by Friedman as something around Del Zotto dollars or even less.
Then it was tweeted by Bobby Mac during the week.
Yesterday Renaud Lavoie tweeted the format as 2.1M this year, 2.9M next year. 5.1M total for 2years.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It was reported on the Hot Stove last weekend by Friedman as something around Del Zotto dollars or even less.
Then it was tweeted by Bobby Mac during the week.
Yesterday Renaud Lavoie tweeted the format as 2.1M this year, 2.9M next year. 5.1M total for 2years.

NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE REPUTABLE.

Don't you have a quote from the man who is more likely to try and save face than indicate the nature of his irrationally stupid and insulting offer?

 

[Mr. Hab]

Pretty sure they said PK is taking the weekend and they're meeting on Monday.

Very real possibliity of this happenening. He's at home with his family thinking about what he wants to do.

Can't believe we've let it come to this.

I would. Apparently MB doesn't understand his worth. Why not just offer a piece of crap for Subban and see if you can get him.

Yeah, MB appears to be that stupid.

If that had been the case without a holdout, you'd be right. Now? I think he's an idiot.

Even if PK signs, we've done real damage to the relationship and PK's reputation around the league. Very stupid thing to do in the name of lowballing a player who's worth well more than what we're offering him.

Totally agree with the above.

Almost any GM would come after Price/Subban, Subban/Price, Galchenyuk (our top 3 in assets/value, imo), but Bergevin doesn't want to pay him fairly (not even close to it)...Bergevin is treating (lowballing/ripping-off) Subban like ****. (as if he's trying to run him out of town).

I'm so afraid Bergevin will take a Perron for Subban, or Simon Gagne+2nd for Subban,etc,etc...
(I really hope Molson will stop Bergevin from trading Subban).

 

[Hoople]

That's fine. Except PK is apparently being offered 2M less than what you're suggesting.

Also, you don't get hamstrung by 1 contract of 5-6M, that represents less than 10% of the cap. You need to look at the rest of the 90-95% of the cap and how it's used.
We currently have 6.4M in cap space. Next year, we have a compliance buyout, my guess is it's Kaberle. So, we have room even if you want to sign him longterm.

But you just said it, guys like Cole and Gionta, they're the ones with the bad deals. Are you going to say Price is hamstringing us?? He's the highest paid player after all.
No, because the young guys like MaxPac and Price are the ones you invest in. PK is another one.
You don't tell PK to take a 2M deal and then give over the hill vets big bucks. It's Pejorative Slured.

But as I said, Bergevin isn't even offering what you are.

No one knows with 100% certainty what Bergevin is offering.

To your point. Price is not overpaid. He is the most valuable player on the team without question.

Can MaxPac, Price and Subban win us a Cup? No.

They will need support. We still need at least one more impact player for the top 6 and we still need a physical DMan (with or without Subban).

Getting those players here will require Cap management over the next couple of years.

Why blow the entire cap surplus on one player when just having that one player will not move us toward the Cup.

 

[Habaddict]

I would give him 2 years at 3 million per or 8 years at around 5 million per year as you tie him up thru RFA for a few years. I am sure they only want to sign for 5 or 6 years so he comes out a UFA after the deal.

I believe there is a 7 year max in the new CBA. So that would be 4 RFA years,
and 3 UFA years. If the RFAs are worth 4-4-5-5, and the UFAs 7-7-7, that makes
39 over 7 years, or 5.5 . Given the cap is going down, these numbers might be
a bit generous. Still 5 per year is about the minimum we could get that many years
for.
No one can predict any ones career. But Subban is a safer prediction than most.
We have seen his level of play without further improvement, and he already
contributes a lot.( and I don't care whether he should be labeled a #1 or not)
At his age he is very likely to improve. With his tool he could improve a great
deal. So the chance 7 years at 5mil becomes a bad contract is small. It is at
least as likely that it becomes a bargain.
And, from a cap prospective, the shape of those years is good for the Habs.
Any over-payment likely fall in the first year or two, while we have cap room.
In return we may have a bargain during the years we hope to have a contender,
when we may need all the cap space we can find.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=652630

Subban was asked how he has utilized his time while awaiting a new contract.

"Well, it doesn't look like I'll have much free time coming up here, so hopefully I'm back on the ice soon," he said.

Interesting how he said that...made it seem like he's about to sign with the way he said it...

 

[Hoople]

It was reported on the Hot Stove last weekend by Friedman as something around Del Zotto dollars or even less.
Then it was tweeted by Bobby Mac during the week.
Yesterday Renaud Lavoie tweeted the format as 2.1M this year, 2.9M next year. 5.1M total for 2years.

Fair enough. I prefer Bergevin's own quote but its silly to argue that point.

Can you get me some intel regarding Subban's position?

Where did he start out and how much is he conceding?

 

[onebighockeyfan]

It was reported by multiple people yesterday that it is the exact same offer that was made in May.

A lot of things have been reported. A lot of it crap. Good or bad.

 

[Habsawce]

No one knows with 100% certainty what Bergevin is offering.

To your point. Price is not overpaid. He is the most valuable player on the team without question.

Can MaxPac, Price and Subban win us a Cup? No.

They will need support. We still need at least one more impact player for the top 6 and we still need a physical DMan (with or without Subban).

Getting those players here will require Cap management over the next couple of years.

Why blow the entire cap surplus on one player when just having that one player will not move us toward the Cup.

I'm curious as to who is suggesting blowing our entire cap surplus on one player? All the majority of us are saying is to either:

A) Give Subban a 2 year deal at his worth, then give him the big bucks in 2 years or
B) Give him a long term deal now which will end up saving a large amount of money in 2-3 years

Option B allows cap space for complimentary players to be signed. But MB appears stuck on low balling him to the point where he won't want to play in MTL anymore. Not sure what is so hard to see about this. Players have pride, and Subban has been working his entire life for this moment and then a rookie GM comes in and treats him like a second class citizen in front of the world.

He should be upset and hurt, I would be. But you know Subban will come out and say the right things about how it's just a business and he's happy to be playing and all that jazz, but I can't see how this isn't upsetting for him. I just can't.

 

[Hoople]

I believe there is a 7 year max in the new CBA. So that would be 4 RFA years,
and 3 UFA years. If the RFAs are worth 4-4-5-5, and the UFAs 7-7-7, that makes
39 over 7 years, or 5.5 . Given the cap is going down, these numbers might be
a bit generous. Still 5 per year is about the minimum we could get that many years
for.
No one can predict any ones career. But Subban is a safer prediction than most.
We have seen his level of play without further improvement, and he already
contributes a lot.( and I don't care whether he should be labeled a #1 or not)
At his age he is very likely to improve. With his tool he could improve a great
deal. So the chance 7 years at 5mil becomes a bad contract is small. It is at
least as likely that it becomes a bargain.
And, from a cap prospective, the shape of those years is good for the Habs.
Any over-payment likely fall in the first year or two, while we have cap room.
In return we may have a bargain during the years we hope to have a contender,
when we may need all the cap space we can find.

So overpay while we have cap room?

And then we will not be able to add players that will fill the needs that this team has because Subban's overpayment will not allow much maneuvering for UFAs and trades.

So basically we will have the same team that we had last year when we finished in last place.

The only difference is that PK Subban will be making a hell of a lot more money than he did last year.

What the **** kind of management is that?

Doing the same thing over and over again (with failure) but paying more to do the same thing over and over again IS truly the definition of insanity.

 

[Beatnik]

NONE OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE REPUTABLE.

Don't you have a quote from the man who is more likely to try and save face than indicate the nature of his irrationally stupid and insulting offer?

Lavoie and Dreger, who both reported the 2.1-2.9M offer, are by far the 2 best sources for Habs news. They break almost every news first so we know that they have great connections. They are also very serious journalist, I can't remember ******** from either of them.


The offer is too low but I'll reserve my jugement until a deal is done.

 

[Habsawce]

Fair enough. I prefer Bergevin's own quote but its silly to argue that point.

Can you get me some intel regarding Subban's position?

Where did he start out and how much is he conceding?

Subban/Meehan were quoted as seeking a long term deal to stay with the Habs. Numbers were never released and only speculated as being pretty high.

Then Subban was quoted in a Stubbs article saying he would accept a 2 year deal to play in MTL because he wants to play here and that he just wants to be compensated fairly.

Sounds like he moved quite a bit and is being reasonable.

 

[Hoople]

I'm curious as to who is suggesting blowing our entire cap surplus on one player? All the majority of us are saying is to either:

A) Give Subban a 2 year deal at his worth, then give him the big bucks in 2 years or
B) Give him a long term deal now which will end up saving a large amount of money in 2-3 years

Option B allows cap space for complimentary players to be signed. But MB appears stuck on low balling him to the point where he won't want to play in MTL anymore. Not sure what is so hard to see about this. Players have pride, and Subban has been working his entire life for this moment and then a rookie GM comes in and treats him like a second class citizen in front of the world.

He should be upset and hurt, I would be. But you know Subban will come out and say the right things about how it's just a business and he's happy to be playing and all that jazz, but I can't see how this isn't upsetting for him. I just can't.

Sorry, but being a last place team last year requires more than bringing in complementary players.

This team needs impact players. We have more complementary players than we need.

 

[hogtownhabsfan*]

They will need support. We still need at least one more impact player for the top 6 and we still need a physical DMan (with or without Subban).

Tinordi and Galchenyuk.

 

[pepperMonkey]

So overpay while we have cap room?

And then we will not be able to add players that will fill the needs that this team has because Subban's overpayment will not allow much maneuvering for UFAs and trades.

So basically we will have the same team that we had last year when we finished in last place.

The only difference is that PK Subban will be making a hell of a lot more money than he did last year.

What the **** kind of management is that?

Doing the same thing over and over again (with failure) but paying more to do the same thing over and over again IS truly the definition of insanity.

So the sane and rational thing to do is offer Subban an ultimatum of 2 yr, 2.1 and 2.9mill contract?

 

[Hoople]

Subban/Meehan were quoted as seeking a long term deal to stay with the Habs. Numbers were never released and only speculated as being pretty high.

Then Subban was quoted in a Stubbs article saying he would accept a 2 year deal to play in MTL because he wants to play here and that he just wants to be compensated fairly.

Sounds like he moved quite a bit and is being reasonable.

So what you are saying is that you have no idea what numbers Subban started out with and no idea what numbers Subban is at right now.

Correct?

 

[Habsawce]

So overpay while we have cap room?

And then we will not be able to add players that will fill the needs that this team has because Subban's overpayment will not allow much maneuvering for UFAs and trades.

So basically we will have the same team that we had last year when we finished in last place.

The only difference is that PK Subban will be making a hell of a lot more money than he did last year.

What the **** kind of management is that?

Doing the same thing over and over again (with failure) but paying more to do the same thing over and over again IS truly the definition of insanity.

Holy hell, you're really having trouble comprehending simple facts.

If you sign a young player to a long term contract and he turns out to be what is projected you will be saving a lot of money.

If Subban is signed to a 2 year deal at this ridiculous low ball offer and goes out and does what we all expect he will. After this 2 years he will be going into UFA years on his next deal and will be getting paid upwards of 7 million a year with inflation and the cap rising.

7 million a year vs. 4.5-5.5 a year if signed now. HRM I WONDER WHAT WILL ALLOW FOR MORE PLAYERS IN THE FUTURE.

 

[Hoople]

So the sane and rational thing to do is offer Subban an ultimatum of 2 yr, 2.1 and 2.9mill contract?

Not what I said but if you want to infer that from my post, go right ahead.

 

[HomaridII]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=652630



Interesting how he said that...made it seem like he's about to sign with the way he said it...

It does sound like he is about to sign

 

[Dr Gonzo]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=652630&navid=nhl:topheads


"I've been training a lot … maybe too much," he continued. "It's safe to say that I'd like to get back on the ice sooner than later. But sometimes in life you go through processes that aren't the most fun. But you got to go through it."


So it sounds like he's keeping in shape, despite helping out with a bunch of charities. Good news, but not surprising knowing his work ethic.

 

[Habsawce]

So what you are saying is that you have no idea what numbers Subban started out with and no idea what numbers Subban is at right now.

Correct?

I don't like to insult posters personally but I am on the bring my friend. It's pretty damn nuts how you think, in fact I don't understand your logic at all. Please explain to me how you think signing PK now to a low bridge offer is going to help this team in 2 years when they're ready to compete?

 

[Price is Wright]

I truly hope this is over tomorrow and Subban is back to wearing the CH. He's a big reason I've followed the Canadiens more than any other team in the last five years.

 

[Habs Junkie]

You know what really sucks in all of this? We've been saying for the last 3 years "can't wait to see subban and markov together". Finally Markov is back, and Subban is the one out.