Owen Sound Attack 2024-25 Season, Part I

[Millpond]

Watching the lineup cards posting each game and it's the same starting pairings. There aren't a lot of options but the same guys are getting scored on consistently.

Would love to see the coach shake up all the lines forward and d because it hasn't been working and the strong starts we saw from a lot of guys have really faded. I'm not sure the progress is there atm.

Last week they pairings were changed.
28/25 were split up

28 went with 2
4 with 25
11 and 5 back together.

There are no others now with Smith and Leonard out long term .

Wray was just brought in to add grit, played well , now out long term .

It takes time to rebuild a team .

Besides, who's taking London out of the playoffs this year ?

The Attack should stay the course and get a top 4 franchise player in the draft .

 

[OSattackfan]

Last week they pairings were changed.
28/25 were split up

28 went with 2
4 with 25
11 and 5 back together.

There are no others now with Smith and Leonard out long term .

Wray was just brought in to add grit, played well , now out long term .

It takes time to rebuild a team .

Besides, who's taking London out of the playoffs this year ?

The Attack should stay the course and get a top 4 franchise player in the draft .

what happened to Wray

 

[PensFan101]

Last week they pairings were changed.
28/25 were split up

28 went with 2
4 with 25
11 and 5 back together.

There are no others now with Smith and Leonard out long term .

Wray was just brought in to add grit, played well , now out long term .

It takes time to rebuild a team .

Besides, who's taking London out of the playoffs this year ?

The Attack should stay the course and get a top 4 franchise player in the draft .

Don't get me wrong I'm 100% on team teardown. My point is more that, the talented young crop of players we have, that are the basis for the rebuild, are either struggling to progress or not getting the opportunity they need.

Here's what the 07's and 08's have done in the last ten games or more points wise:
Delisle: 8 points in 10 (he's been excellent)
Mbuyi: 1 goal, 1 assist in 10 (although Wrey has rewarded him at times with more ice)
Crawford: 1 goal, 1 assist in 10
Nansi: 1 point in the last 10, 5 assists in the last 25(!!) games
Varosyan: 3 points in the last 10, had that three game point streak and then seemingly back to the bottom six
Arnett: 3 points in 10, obviously a different standard for him as an underage D but has also taken his fair share of minuses
Bleicher: 13 games without a point and never seems to move up the lineup
Kindree: 1g, 1a in 10 games
G Smith: 0 points, will always play a more defensive role, but has been a high event player (both good and not so good) the last 10-15 games
Mikus: Still looking for his first OHL point

I would love if Dale had the stones to trade anyone that's either not back next year or not going to be an impact overager, really the only players who are either improving offensively, or playing well for their age are Delisle and Arnett. Everyone else is struggling and down the stretch some of these guys either need to show more, or we should be questioning what the upside is here.

My take is that the group above is far more talented than their production is suggesting and it's an indictment on Wrey's tenure so far that he can get that great level of buy in, but few seem to be getting better. That's two years in a row and two coaching regimes that have struggled to develop players.

I 100% agree that a Top 4 draft pick is badly needed for this group, but in terms of the timeline, if the young guys are struggling like this... does it not make sense to trade George and cash in on what might be the league's most valuable, and tradeable asset? I'd hate to see him moved and I highly doubt we'd see him moved, but George and some of the vets leaving hands the keys to the young guys and they either sink or swim.

 

[KFawcett]

I think it needs to be some different personnel brought in and some others need a change of scenery

Not sure what your thinking is but the way I see it there are probably 2-3 players that may be moved before Jan 10th and I wouldn't expect much more. We are in a deeper rebuild than we have had in a long time. Stay the course is best.

 

[Stellar29]

Don't get me wrong I'm 100% on team teardown. My point is more that, the talented young crop of players we have, that are the basis for the rebuild, are either struggling to progress or not getting the opportunity they need.

Here's what the 07's and 08's have done in the last ten games or more points wise:
Delisle: 8 points in 10 (he's been excellent)
Mbuyi: 1 goal, 1 assist in 10 (although Wrey has rewarded him at times with more ice)
Crawford: 1 goal, 1 assist in 10
Nansi: 1 point in the last 10, 5 assists in the last 25(!!) games
Varosyan: 3 points in the last 10, had that three game point streak and then seemingly back to the bottom six
Arnett: 3 points in 10, obviously a different standard for him as an underage D but has also taken his fair share of minuses
Bleicher: 13 games without a point and never seems to move up the lineup
Kindree: 1g, 1a in 10 games
G Smith: 0 points, will always play a more defensive role, but has been a high event player (both good and not so good) the last 10-15 games
Mikus: Still looking for his first OHL point

I would love if Dale had the stones to trade anyone that's either not back next year or not going to be an impact overager, really the only players who are either improving offensively, or playing well for their age are Delisle and Arnett. Everyone else is struggling and down the stretch some of these guys either need to show more, or we should be questioning what the upside is here.

My take is that the group above is far more talented than their production is suggesting and it's an indictment on Wrey's tenure so far that he can get that great level of buy in, but few seem to be getting better. That's two years in a row and two coaching regimes that have struggled to develop players.

I 100% agree that a Top 4 draft pick is badly needed for this group, but in terms of the timeline, if the young guys are struggling like this... does it not make sense to trade George and cash in on what might be the league's most valuable, and tradeable asset? I'd hate to see him moved and I highly doubt we'd see him moved, but George and some of the vets leaving hands the keys to the young guys and they either sink or swim.

I think we have to keep in mind this is an incredibly young roster and development isn't always linear. This year and likely next year as well will be full of ups and downs with the expected growing pains. It's tough that a number of players are experiencing the downs at the same time. Maybe we'll see a bounce back post Christmas break when these guys get a rest/mental reset? This has been a lot of hockey for a number of the younger guys.

I'm not going to criticize Wray for guys not producing points. I think he's done a good job of rewarding guys who deserve the time and roles on the ice. Varosyan may play fourth line but he's also earned a spot on the PK to add minutes. Same with Nansi. When Tersigni was hot he lined up as 2C and since cooling off has slotted back at 4C. Outside of the top line, nobody is really producing anything with any consistency. I don't believe the lack of production has anything to do with the systems the team deploys.

This is the first true rebuild in the time I've been in Owen Sound. It's going to take some time and patience. It's not going to help to make changes for the sake of making changes.

 

[Millpond]

What do you get back in return for those middle vets who aren't producing ?

Unfortunately there's no way to rush a rebuild . This season is all about taking their lumps. And us as well.

The coaches have played the youngsters far more than the last two coaches.

I don't see the youngsters struggling.

I see them developing .

 

[Stellar29]

Not sure what your thinking is but the way I see it there are probably 2-3 players that may be moved before Jan 10th and I wouldn't expect much more. We are in a deeper rebuild than we have had in a long time. Stay the course is best.

The way I see it, the only players who will garner interest this year would be Konnor Smith, Petrovski and McCue. I can't imagine George is even on the table for consideration. To me, you target draft picks to build a war chest and young players that fit with what the Attack are building around. The current draft pick situation is good but it would be nice to have extra picks for future seasons if we have a contender that they can actually buy big pieces without emptying their pick cupboard.

 

[PensFan101]

What do you get back in return for those middle vets who aren't producing ?

Unfortunately there's no way to rush a rebuild . This season is all about taking their lumps. And us as well.

The coaches have played the youngsters far more than the last two coaches.

I don't see the youngsters struggling.

I see them developing .

As Stellar said, Konnor Smith, Petrovski, and McCue are likely the three vets that would return value at the deadline. I'd move the first two for whatever can be garnered for them (ideally picks at this point because the team has a lot of players). McCue I'd hold onto as despite the quantum leap forward he's taken this season, he doesn't need to be signed by the Leafs, and the Marlies are usually very deep so I'd like his chances of coming back and being an impact Overager.

I'd also add Hookey to the list of vets that could net a return but given every team is full up on overagers this year, he's probably more valuable to keep down the stretch.

McDonald has been disappointing but he at least plays the right way when he's not scoring.

I'm never a fan of outright cutting veteran players, but Waddick has had such a rough season I'd consider cutting him if there are no takers. I don't know if you can bring him back as an overager at this point.

The big gap in these scenarios above is that it leaves the Attack with McCue as the only, and uncertain, overage candidate, but the team likely has to shop for overage upgrades anyway. It would, however, thrust the youngsters firmly into leading roles.

What I expect to happen is a lot less than that, K Smith being the only player moved and the team looks to McCue, Petrovski, and Waddick as the overagers next season,

 

[leafsrdue]

Keep George and McCue to give the fans something to cheer for. Deal K Smith for sure and roll with Leonard, Hookey and MacDonald. I don't mind Petrovski as an OA but not Waddick. Must be a better choice out there. Attack fans need to suck it up and support the young fellas.

 

[Stellar29]

As Stellar said, Konnor Smith, Petrovski, and McCue are likely the three vets that would return value at the deadline. I'd move the first two for whatever can be garnered for them (ideally picks at this point because the team has a lot of players). McCue I'd hold onto as despite the quantum leap forward he's taken this season, he doesn't need to be signed by the Leafs, and the Marlies are usually very deep so I'd like his chances of coming back and being an impact Overager.

I'd also add Hookey to the list of vets that could net a return but given every team is full up on overagers this year, he's probably more valuable to keep down the stretch.

McDonald has been disappointing but he at least plays the right way when he's not scoring.

I'm never a fan of outright cutting veteran players, but Waddick has had such a rough season I'd consider cutting him if there are no takers. I don't know if you can bring him back as an overager at this point.

The big gap in these scenarios above is that it leaves the Attack with McCue as the only, and uncertain, overage candidate, but the team likely has to shop for overage upgrades anyway. It would, however, thrust the youngsters firmly into leading roles.

What I expect to happen is a lot less than that, K Smith being the only player moved and the team looks to McCue, Petrovski, and Waddick as the overagers next season,

Just my opinion but I'm not concerned with having no 05/OA caliber players in house for next year. Theoretically, you should get more in trade capital to move now than it will cost to acquire 05s for next year. If next year isn't a go for it year, which seems to be the case as we now move to the half way point this season, you should be able to get some solid 05s that don't break the bank that get squeezed out over the offseason/training camp.

To that point, I'd bite the bullet on moving McCue and Petrovski. Petrovski likely doesn't net a big deal coming back but I could see some teams like Windsor or Niagara being interested in lower cost upgrades with a guy who will likely be back as a solid OA next year. The Attack have D depth with Leonard coming back in the new year and the option to move Roy to an A card so they can certainly afford to move both Konnor Smith and Petrovski. McCue may be our best player and main attraction for ticket buyers, minus George, but if you're not contending next year, you'll get better value to move him now. May be a painful deal to make but in my opinion it would be best for the future of the organization to maximize the trade return.

Some of the contending teams are deep with 05s that can't all come back so there will be decent OA candidates that become available over the offseason, maybe even one or two that shake loose over the trade deadline that could come to Owen Sound and be useful pieces for next year.

Overall, I think the thing the Attack are most lacking in with our 07/08 group is the elite forwards. Mbuyi looks like he could be one, maybe Varosyan or Nansi as well as I think both have the high end upside/skill set. We really need those guys to establish themselves as consistent scorers over the next year and a half to contend. Getting a top 09 player in the draft would help in that regard as well.

 

[Millpond]

Keep George and McCue to give the fans something to cheer for. Deal K Smith for sure and roll with Leonard, Hookey and MacDonald. I don't mind Petrovski as an OA but not Waddick. Must be a better choice out there. Attack fans need to suck it up and support the young fellas.

McCue is in a unique position.
He could stick with the Marlies or ECHL next season .
As a projected 35-40 goal scorer this year, with his style of play he is attractive to teams .

If the Attack could return a 1st rd 16 yr old or 1st or 2nd rd 17 yr old, I'd take it .

Moving Petrovsky and bringing up Roy would speed up development of a very young blueline . Of course most fans won't be happy to see a young squad lose

I guess it's up to management to decide what kind of balance of youth and veterans they need .

 

[Stellar29]

McCue is in a unique position.
He could stick with the Marlies or ECHL next season .
As a projected 35-40 goal scorer this year, with his style of play he is attractive to teams .

If the Attack could return a 1st rd 16 yr old or 1st or 2nd rd 17 yr old, I'd take it .

Moving Petrovsky and bringing up Roy would speed up development of a very young blueline . Of course most fans won't be happy to see a young squad lose

I guess it's up to management to decide what kind of balance of youth and veterans they need .

McCue is interesting in terms of going pro next year. He was listed at 6'3" and 196lbs at leafs camp. That's a pro frame and if he scores 40 this year they may sign him. They have the ability to wait and he was picked in the 7th round so I'm going to lean towards him returning next year as an OA but there is a chance he doesn't come back.

To me the balance is less focused on wins and losses and more about making sure the team doesn't get caved in every night, especially against the top teams. The main thing, at least for me, is to open playing time and development opportunity without forcing guys to play above their abilities.