Barlow and Goure don't work together. The top six is much better with them playing on separate lines. I would rather them drop Waddick to centre line 4 and keep Tersigni in the line up than play Brennan who hasn't really brought much to the table this year. Tersigni's last few games have been much better. Nansi and Crawford both are deserving of playing in the top 6 right now and I think they should get a run of games to earn the chance to stick. Both have been pretty reliable in compete every night.
Owen Sound Attack 2023-24 Season Thread (Part One)
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DCruickshank
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- Jan 8, 2022
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Fred Wallace , on the radio broadcast from Barrie ( as a guest, he's retired now ), suggests the Attack tears it down now and goes full rebuild . I'd think Fred has seen around 2500 games over 33 seasons, so he knows OHL better than most. ( including some league execs)
Their only win in the last 6 games, was against Niagara.
Trending the wrong direction for a few 'tweaks'.
Their only win in the last 6 games, was against Niagara.
Trending the wrong direction for a few 'tweaks'.
It's time. I can't envision any other scenario that makes sense at this point. The potential of the 07 draft looks bright and George is already a stud with a couple seasons left in the league. That's the future of this organization. A total reset with a focus on that group I think is the best course of action. It'll be a bumpy road the rest of the way with a lot of growing pains but the organization will be better because of it.
It seems like a lot of fans now share this view. You feel the frustration in the rink and around here. Is the management paying attention or do they stick to the path of mediocrity? I guess we will see soon enough. I personally am not interested in watching them lose 2 games in the first round this year.
DCruickshank
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This is getting old. Lets build for another year (which never happens) This team keeps rebuilding every year. I would be happy with a team that at least gets passed the first round on play-offs.
watched your Barrie game, does anyone have a hard time seeing numbers on those black jerseys?
Anyway, this was a horrible defeat. Seemed as if there again was no effort. I don't get the Nansi on the 2nd line. Kid does some good things, but to have him on the 2nd. He has 0 goals and has played 20 ish games on that line. I also disagree with Stewart being on the 4th tonight. I know I'll take some heat for that, but 77 was all over Barlow all game, and you have Stewart watching it happen. Not one of your guys did anything physically. Hookey, I know has had an awful thing happen to his family, but hasn't been engaged in many games. Kid his size should never lose a battle, but it happens regularly. Cormier has gone in the tank lately too. Getting Petrovdky back will help, but this is a 7-8 place team at best. The Bayshore was supposed to be a hard place to play and you are better away from it, although othet than your 4 game road streak, not much good has happened lately. Looking a t Dales' recent history I agree with some posters on here, that this looks like what your team will be for the rest of the year. Too bad because rumblings around the league at the start of the season was this was a "go for it" year.
Anyway, this was a horrible defeat. Seemed as if there again was no effort. I don't get the Nansi on the 2nd line. Kid does some good things, but to have him on the 2nd. He has 0 goals and has played 20 ish games on that line. I also disagree with Stewart being on the 4th tonight. I know I'll take some heat for that, but 77 was all over Barlow all game, and you have Stewart watching it happen. Not one of your guys did anything physically. Hookey, I know has had an awful thing happen to his family, but hasn't been engaged in many games. Kid his size should never lose a battle, but it happens regularly. Cormier has gone in the tank lately too. Getting Petrovdky back will help, but this is a 7-8 place team at best. The Bayshore was supposed to be a hard place to play and you are better away from it, although othet than your 4 game road streak, not much good has happened lately. Looking a t Dales' recent history I agree with some posters on here, that this looks like what your team will be for the rest of the year. Too bad because rumblings around the league at the start of the season was this was a "go for it" year.
In the last 10 games Stewart has 1 point, I think Nansi has 4 or 5? Stewart's last fight was in Windsor when the game was out of hand. We all know there is a bias there, but when your not leading the game, you need to throw the skill out there to generate offense.
The team operates as it does, as Ive said and others have said, its just how it is and the owners have an interest in operating it that way, you can support it or not support it. It would appear the owners have their minds made up with the year to year plan, so you have to make yours up as to if you want to support a team with that ideology, or not.
I still see a decent buy, there's too much on this team to sit on the fence. Barlow was off for most of his 14 previous games, if he gets back to where he should be, on paper this team is as good if not better then Kitchener, ON PAPER.
I think you'll see a D added, probably not a top guy, and a top 6 and depth forward added.
Next year, I do think they will almost have to be selling everyone that is 18 or 19, all the more reason you do what Kitchener did and buy when it looks bleak and hope for the best.
I keep hearing we rebuild every year. What is your definition of rebuilding? In my definition of rebuilding moving Suzuki and co. would qualify before that you go way back. That is why we always have the 30 wins and make playoffs. I find there are alot of people that I don't think totally understand the terms rebuild and All In. I wonder how many would support during an all out rebuild I would be there and I know many who would. Having said all that I would support a full rebuild even though I know it's not going to happen.I would be ok with putting every asset that isn't returning next year on the trade wire and see what you get.I would try to make sure we either keep or get back enough to avoid getting slaughtered every night but there would really be no untouchables. Also anyone who thinks it's totally Dales thing for 30 wins you are delusional. The Ownership group is totally on board with that 30 wins and min. 2 playoff games is financially acceptable to them or they would do something about it.
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Your point is correct, the 30 wins thing isn't Dale's, its the ownership groups, and not changing.
So really, people can accept it, or they can cheer for someone else. That's really the only two options.
With regards to rebuilds, be careful what you wish for, teams like Erie have been rebuilding for 5 years. Just because you start a rebuild doesn't mean you actualy build it back up.
I think the Attack draft quite well in the last 4/5 years and seem to trade smartly, so a rebuild may not be as painful. I do see them moving Barlow next year, much like Suzuki a few years ago. Next year the roster will be pretty lean on older players.
Ther he is, I'll rewatch, don't think he did. You were probably there, using your scouting expertise, Any comments on hookey or cormier, or Nansi, I'd love to hear you expert opinion on the other comments other than the one you like to zero in on
i only zero in because you zero in and give a pass to him and take shots at others. personal pot shot is noted (and childish) but i will not bother with insulting and just answer your comment.
stewart is what he is, hes effective at playing his game, which is mostly checking. the other aspect he's just not there. do you think the coach has some sort of vendetta against him, or maybe hes just being used the best they think. same thing happened in kingston as well. at some point you are what you are, coaches are not constantly not playing players 20 minutes a night because they want to lose.
in my limited views of owen sound nansi and crawford look impressive for 16 year olds, i totally get whey they are up in the lineup with barlow and petrovski out (i see barlow just got back) but post trade deadline, you want them on the 4th line with someone like stewart.
cormier works hard, great shot, but is 17. hookey is a third line guy who can play physical at times, but can be passive too, but both are scoring threats, so i get why they play more then stewart, who is not a scoring threat.
As you said, it's likely a decision by ownership to ultimately buy/sell but I don't see any way it makes sense to be a buyer with this group. We all had higher expectations but unfortunately the train has come off the rails. We're closer to 9th than 4th and home ice in the playoffs. There's 5 maybe 6 teams better than Owen Sound in the west. I don't think Dale DeGray is concerned about job security and if a sell is required it's up to him to get ownership on board. Kitchener bought from the bottom last season and are paying for it now with a great team and very few assets to improve it.
Our blueline is more than a single D add away from being competitive. It was the biggest weakness before the season and remains so now. The forward group is fine with Barlow and Petrovsky in. I can't see a scenario where Owen Sound has the assets to fix the blueline without harming the future.
I totally understand the concern with a complete tear down from an ownership perspective but not doing so now is detrimental moving forward. Doing a sell off doesn't mean being bad for 4-5 years when you have a promising group of young players like Owen Sound does. I believe selling now actually speeds up the time to be relevant again in this case. Next year this team absolutely has to sell if they don't this year as the team projects to be quite weak as constructed. I don't see how punting on an opportunity to bring in assets for graduating pieces when next year's team is going to be lean as the wrong move. This group isn't winning anything this year. They'd be lucky to avoid a sweep in the first round of the playoffs.
Maybe next year is a down year regardless of moves made or not made this season but the following year has the potential to be a very strong season based on the pieces on the roster today. They can't afford to screw that up.
Personal pot shots? I just saw your comment on the niagara scouting staff, lol That must be professional courtesy.
Anyway, I think the coaching change has been ok. He seems more calm o nthe bench and definitely less yelling, but have the results been there. I bet Walters is at home with a smile on his face. Not wishing the boys any bad luck, but thinking there isn't much improvement. You still give up too many shots, I think it is a lack of forecheck and pressure on the other team. I thin a Dman at the very least is needed. My guess is that Guindon is marketable and could bring a nice return. I just wonder if the career fans of the team ever get frustrated with mediocrity.
Anyway, I think the coaching change has been ok. He seems more calm o nthe bench and definitely less yelling, but have the results been there. I bet Walters is at home with a smile on his face. Not wishing the boys any bad luck, but thinking there isn't much improvement. You still give up too many shots, I think it is a lack of forecheck and pressure on the other team. I thin a Dman at the very least is needed. My guess is that Guindon is marketable and could bring a nice return. I just wonder if the career fans of the team ever get frustrated with mediocrity.
If you want to look at the Erie rebuild example, they went for it 3 consecutive seasons and completely emptied their draft pick cupboard and young players to do it. That will absolutely lead to a longer rebuild than normal. We have five 06 and four 07s rostered currently as well as our 24 1st rounder and two 24 3rd rounders for the coming draft. If Owen Sound chooses to rebuild we are not looking at a long term project to turn it around.
Alternatively you can look at what Mississauga did last season and what it's lead to this year and what it will mean for them next season. That's obviously best case scenario but a possibility with a commitment to make the hard decisions today.
the niagra ice dogs scouting staff accepted payments for draft picks, when you do that ill call it out all day long.
you attack anyone who doesn't like stewart, thats not on anyone other then yourself.
This is a pretty friendly group with very little personal beefs with posters, but some are more emotional then others, I guess you have to ask yourself, what side of that are you on. 90 percent of us have figured out how to disagree civilly, are you part of that group or not?
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I can't disagree with much of what your saying. I do think that if they move Guindon, it would be more of a Zhilkin type trade for 5 picks, vs a Del Mastro trade that brought in a strong 17 year old.
If they move Colby now or later, the return is probably the same, a young 16/17 year old and 4/5 picks.
I think they could net 10/13 picks if they sold now and a good young player or two, but as far as players on the ice, im not sure selling now would advance that much vs what they would look like at the deadline next year.
I can't say that anything your saying is wrong, but i do see a team that on paper should be one of the best in the west and if they ever figure it out, they could be a top team on that side. Personally I would support a buy given the makeup of the team, but I can see the argument on a sell mentality and can't say its wrong.
Buying now is more about hope that they figure it out vs selling is wanting to net picks and start again.
I think next year is a sell regardless, if they buy players they can sell next year, that may be a good middle ground to take.
True, Dale has a few days to figure out what direction this team goes. Crawford is a kid to build a round and obviously George. Barlow will not want to stick around for a rebuild , so you will need to convince him and his agent. Back end is pretty bare after this year also. I guess wthat is why he gets paid the big bucks and i don't
Why on earth would you want to keep Colby Barlow in a rebuild? He is your best trade asset.
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