Value of: Owen Power

[truthbluth]

Power also has very low IQ.

That is ridiculous and false. Jesus.

 

[Fatass]

No, that's not how it works. I already gave an example, who knows what they think, they don't know how to evaluate players and don't know how to train them. You keep saying the same thing like a woodpecker, but you don't even see or know the problem. I don't trade the best player on the team, I trade the extra PMD LD in Byram or Power and fill the holes with competent players. Stop talking this nonsense about value.

The thread is actually about “value”. Power is either a #1 and therefore Carrie’s that kind of value (in which case the Sabres have two such players and should trade the one who returns the most) or he’s a #3 and his trade “value” will reflect that.
The Sabres are in a black hole of losing and have been for many years. Imo they are close to being a winning club. If they think Power can fill the #1 role, but are only getting trade “value” for a #3 then they need to look at moving Dahlin.
In your opinion is Power a #1?

 

[Fatass]

Is it fair to say the one with the better value is the better player? ... If so..why trade the better player? The logic doesn't add up.



Actually he has great offensive IQ .. the defensive side is where he is lost.

Maybe the Sabres value Power as a #1 but other clubs see him as a #3? There’s both internal value and what the market actually is, and they can be different.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Maybe the Sabres value Power as a #1 but other clubs see him as a #3? There’s both internal value and what the market actually is, and they can be different.

You're allowed to have 2 or more top 6 dmen on the same team..

 

[Fjordy]

The thread is actually about “value”. Power is either a #1 and therefore Carrie’s that kind of value (in which case the Sabres have two such players and should trade the one who returns the most) or he’s a #3 and his trade “value” will reflect that.
The Sabres are in a black hole of losing and have been for many years. Imo they are close to being a winning club. If they think Power can fill the #1 role, but are only getting trade “value” for a #3 then they need to look at moving Dahlin.
In your opinion is Power a #1?

No, we don't trade Dahlin, period.

Power don't 1D.

 

[Fatass]

You're allowed to have 2 or more top 6 dmen on the same team..

Of course. However this thread is about the value of Power. Clearly the Sabres have a 1D in Dahlin. If they value Power as also a 1D and can get a value in return that reflects that, then it’s a wise trade. However if the market sees Power as a 3 and the value of the return reflects that, then the Sabres have a big decision. Do they keep Power, who they believe is a #1? If they do then they have, in their view of value, two #1 D.
The Sabres, imo, are in no position to have the luxury of two #1 D, when clearly they are in need of better players in other roles.
if Power is valued by the Sabres as a #3, then they wouldn’t trade him because, as you point out, it’s good to have more than two top four D.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Is his ceiling as a #1 on a winning team? If the Sabres believe this to be true then they should keep him and trade Dahlin for a massive haul.

lmao no. Even if Power had the potential to someday be as good as Dahlin already is (which he absoultely doesn't, because almost nobody does), that would be f***ing moronic.

 

[tsujimoto74]

if the Sabres believe Power is a legit #1 then they have two such players. Trade the one who returns the most. If the Sabres believe Power is only a 3 then his value will reflect that.

Being inferior to Dahlin is hardly a slight. Dahlin is one of the best defensemen in the NHL.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Isles fan and closet Sabres fan here in peace.

Sounds like the Noah Dobson situation. Dobson is 3 years older and a RHD coming off a 70 point season. He’s a RFA and will likely get a deal similar to Power. He’s also soft as butter on the defensive side despite being 6’ 4”.

Both teams need a shake up. Power has the aura of a #1OA pick but otherwise this seems like a fairly even swap if you factor in Dobson’s right handedness and better scoring stats.

I suppose it’s not realistic because it opens up a big hole on the right side of the Isles defense and I’m gonna guess this has a similar effect on the left side for the Sabres.

Is this fair value?

I don't see how that makes any sense for the Sabres. They sacrifice upside to gain ???

 

[Beerz]

Maybe the Sabres value Power as a #1 but other clubs see him as a #3? There’s both internal value and what the market actually is, and they can be different.

Power is not a #1 currently. Can he be? Who knows. I don't believe he will but not everybody feels the same about certain players. But his value is still massive and his value is more than your run of the mill #3 because he is still so young. GMs will pay for that further potential.

 

[Fatass]

Being inferior to Dahlin is hardly a slight. Dahlin is one of the best defensemen in the NHL.

Of course. But the Sabres need to maximize value. If Power is only going to return the value of a #3, but they believe he’s a legit #1, then the club needs to look at other options to improve. Following this current path clearly isn’t working.
The club had Dahlin, Power, and Byram on the left side. In a capped league they need to turn one of those three into pieces needed to move the team into the winning group of clubs. Can Power and Byram be the 1-2 on a winning team? Imo it’s about the value of return vs what the club will be considering the player moving on.

 

[Beerz]

Of course. But the Sabres need to maximize value. If Power is only going to return the value of a #3, but they believe he’s a legit #1, then the club needs to look at other options to improve. Following this current path clearly isn’t working.
The club had Dahlin, Power, and Byram on the left side. In a capped league they need to turn one of those three into pieces needed to move the team into the winning group of clubs. Can Power and Byram be the 1-2 on a winning team? Imo it’s about the value of return vs what the club will be considering the player moving on.

Your train of thought works with Power and Byram.. which is why a lot of us want to use Power as a trade chip. Dahlin isn't even in the discussion

 

[VeteranPresence]

if the Sabres believe Power is a legit #1 then they have two such players. Trade the one who returns the most. If the Sabres believe Power is only a 3 then his value will reflect that.

This is the best way to look at it and I am not shocked you haven’t gotten a good faith answer in response yet. If Sabres fans are being genuine when they say Power has #1 upside, then they would have no problem trading Dahlin. Everyone knows that isn’t true though, and no team is going to give Buffalo proven #1 D value for Power, so then it becomes about his actual worth.

Let’s all take a moment to remember what Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR went for. Then subtract from even that because Power has more question marks. There’s your fair value, whether Sabres fans want to admit it.

 

[tsujimoto74]

This is the best way to look at it and I am not shocked you haven’t gotten a good faith answer in response yet. If Sabres fans are being genuine when they say Power has #1 upside, then they would have no problem trading Dahlin. Everyone knows that isn’t true though, and no team is going to give Buffalo proven #1 D value for Power, so then it becomes about his actual worth.

Let’s all take a moment to remember what Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR went for. Then subtract from even that because Power has more question marks. There’s your fair value, whether Sabres fans want to admit it.

Because it’s stupid “logic.” If Edmonton really thinks Draisaitl is a 1C, they should trade McDavid.

See how dumb that sounds? And Draisaitl is already a finished product, not a kid who’s still developing his game.

Dahlin is rightfully untouchable. Having both Power and Byram *behind him* is a bit redundant. That’s why Sabres fans are willing to see the team trade Power or Byram to address other needs. Dahlin goes nowhere. There isn’t a team in the NHL that would dream of trading him if they had him.

 

[Fjordy]

This is the best way to look at it and I am not shocked you haven’t gotten a good faith answer in response yet. If Sabres fans are being genuine when they say Power has #1 upside, then they would have no problem trading Dahlin. Everyone knows that isn’t true though, and no team is going to give Buffalo proven #1 D value for Power, so then it becomes about his actual worth.

Let’s all take a moment to remember what Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR went for. Then subtract from even that because Power has more question marks. There’s your fair value, whether Sabres fans want to admit it.

Potential or 1D already, these are two very different things. We are not trading Dahlin, but we need to trade Power or Byram. I would even consider trading both. Doesn't mean we will get a king's ransom, but we just need to fill the holes in the roster with the right players.

 

[Fatass]

Your train of thought works with Power and Byram.. which is why a lot of us want to use Power as a trade chip. Dahlin isn't even in the discussion

Understood. But how much return can be expected for Power if the market values him as a #3? If that’s his value, then will any return make significant improvement?

 

[Beerz]

This is the best way to look at it and I am not shocked you haven’t gotten a good faith answer in response yet. If Sabres fans are being genuine when they say Power has #1 upside, then they would have no problem trading Dahlin. Everyone knows that isn’t true though, and no team is going to give Buffalo proven #1 D value for Power, so then it becomes about his actual worth.

Let’s all take a moment to remember what Eichel, Reinhart, and ROR went for. Then subtract from even that because Power has more question marks. There’s your fair value, whether Sabres fans want to admit it.

Dude talks about good faith response and then goes on to talk about Sabre fans asking for the value of Power to be that of a proven #1 D when exactly zero Sabre fans have stated that.

Understood. But how much return can be expected for Power if the market values him as a #3? If that’s his value, then will any return make significant improvement?

The market will not determine his value as a #3

 

[Crazy8oooo]

People forgetting He is 21 at start of the season.

Hes a #1 Dman. Based on potential

I’m not rating Power one way or the other because I don’t watch him enough. But how is a player considered a #1 dman based on potential? Am
I misunderstanding something? If he’s not a 1d currently, then he’s not considered a 1d. Potential doesn’t matter to what he is currently, as he may never reach that potential. Just trying to understand how you’re equating it to that.

 

[Fatass]

Because it’s stupid “logic.” If Edmonton really thinks Draisaitl is a 1C, they should trade McDavid.

See how dumb that sounds? And Draisaitl is already a finished product, not a kid who’s still developing his game.

Dahlin is rightfully untouchable. Having both Power and Byram *behind him* is a bit redundant. That’s why Sabres fans are willing to see the team trade Power or Byram to address other needs. Dahlin goes nowhere. There isn’t a team in the NHL that would dream of trading him if they had him.

Edmonton is a winning club and Cup competitive. The Sabres are not in that group of clubs. This isn’t a comparable.
The Sabres need to return the best value relative to what they give up. Will trading Power return what is needed to make enough improvement to get the club into the winning group?

 

[Lunatik]

Is Power’s ceiling a #3 on a winning team? Is his style of play effective on the PK? If he can carry a second pairing and play #1 PK unit, then he’s got a lot of value.

The good thing about defensive play, is it they can always improve. It's why defensemen have a reputation for being later bloomers than forwards. I think with the right coach and a good mentor, that he can improve on the defensive side.

Another thing we have to consider, is what are the Sabres asking of him? When Weegar joined the Flames he struggled at first because he wasn't used to the level of defensive responsibility they wanted from him.

I'd love to get Power on the Flames working under Huska, he's always been so good at developing defensemen.

 

[AvroArrow]

Actually he has great offensive IQ .. the defensive side is where he is lost.

Don't give up on him

Defensive IQ and defensive parts of the game can be worked on with good coaching. He has the offensive toolset, he needs proper development and coaching.

I was highly critical of Quinn Hughes for the same thing a few seasons ago, but always said that if he improves on his defensive side of the game he will be a legitimate superstar #1D

If the problems with Power are work ethic or athleticism, it's a different story. Defense can be taught, I think it would be a monumental mistake to sell low on him. Now if you get a star forward back, sure it fills a need and makes sense.

He's only 21, he can learn how to defend. Hughes for example was a complete train wreck defensively his first couple years. Soft as butter and couldn't even stick check. He has since improved his positioning and IQ/stick checking, still not the most physical but the biggest flaw I'd see with him is, he'd be scared of contact and turn pucks over and lose like 99/100 board battles.

If it's just defensive IQ, Power isn't the guy you move, it's the coaching staff. Bring in people who can properly develop him and implement a proper defensive system for him to learn and strive in.

 

[Fatass]

The good thing about defensive play, is it they can always improve. It's why defensemen have a reputation for being later bloomers than forwards. I think with the right coach and a good mentor, that he can improve on the defensive side.

Another thing we have to consider, is what are the Sabres asking of him? When Weegar joined the Flames he struggled at first because he wasn't used to the level of defensive responsibility they wanted from him.

I'd love to get Power on the Flames working under Huska, he's always been so good at developing defensemen.

Kadri + Anderson for Power? Fair?

 

[Fatass]

Don't give up on him

Defensive IQ and defensive parts of the game can be worked on with good coaching. He has the offensive toolset, he needs proper development and coaching.

I was highly critical of Quinn Hughes for the same thing a few seasons ago, but always said that if he improves on his defensive side of the game he will be a legitimate superstar #1D

If the problems with Power are work ethic or athleticism, it's a different story. Defense can be taught, I think it would be a monumental mistake to sell low on him. Now if you get a star forward back, sure it fills a need and makes sense.

He's only 21, he can learn how to defend. Hughes for example was a complete train wreck defensively his first couple years. Soft as butter and couldn't even stick check. He has since improved his positioning and IQ/stick checking, still not the most physical but the biggest flaw I'd see with him is, he'd be scared of contact and turn pucks over and lose like 99/100 board battles.

If it's just defensive IQ, Power isn't the guy you move, it's the coaching staff. Bring in people who can properly develop him and implement a proper defensive system for him to learn and strive in.

IQ can be taught? IMO that’s incorrect. Can’t teach compete either. Power, imo, has no problems with IQ and compete. He’s a good young D man who needs more experience. Is his ceiling a #1 or a #3? The market will establish his value.

 

[Beerz]

Don't give up on him

Defensive IQ and defensive parts of the game can be worked on with good coaching. He has the offensive toolset, he needs proper development and coaching.

I was highly critical of Quinn Hughes for the same thing a few seasons ago, but always said that if he improves on his defensive side of the game he will be a legitimate superstar #1D

If the problems with Power are work ethic or athleticism, it's a different story. Defense can be taught, I think it would be a monumental mistake to sell low on him. Now if you get a star forward back, sure it fills a need and makes sense.

He's only 21, he can learn how to defend. Hughes for example was a complete train wreck defensively his first couple years. Soft as butter and couldn't even stick check. He has since improved his positioning and IQ/stick checking, still not the most physical but the biggest flaw I'd see with him is, he'd be scared of contact and turn pucks over and lose like 99/100 board battles.

If it's just defensive IQ, Power isn't the guy you move, it's the coaching staff. Bring in people who can properly develop him and implement a proper defensive system for him to learn and strive in.

It's not about giving up on him.. it's about needing to balance the roster. We are loaded on LD puck moving dmen. He could very well put it all together.. but we have tons of holes in roster and he can bring in very good pieces to fix those holes.

I suppose it all comes down to if we can re up Byram at reasonable price but if we can I am more than willing to part with Power to improve the roster elsewhere

Kadri + Anderson for Power? Fair?

Maybe.. but Andersson isn't the type of dman we should be looking at. And Kadri is not a risk i am willing to take on.

 

[Fjordy]

I would probably trade Byram first anyway. Find a physical vet to play with Power, maybe a development coach can help him, plus hire a new defensive coach.