Ovechkin vs Laine comparison.

[DCRedhawk21]

This topic is coming up a lot recently and the argument basically boils down to laine playing in the NHL as a teenager while ovechkin didnt/couldn't and his stats in the Russian league being somewhat pedestrian. Ovechkin was 7 months older than laine (and laine had a year mor NHL experience) when you compare ovis first season to laines second. Ovi had 100 plus points, over 50 goals and won the Calder over Crosby that year. Laine had 44 goals and 26 assists. Stylistically laine is much more similar to the current 32 year old version of ovechkin than the 20 year old one. I think some people forget what that player was...

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Laine isn't on Ovechkin's level and he's never going to be. Sorry.

Alex's entire career is on video so it really blows me away how many people seem to have forgotten how good he was in his prime.

But the topic is not about ovechkins prime or Laines future. It's about them at same age.

 

[oXo Cube]

But the topic is not about ovechkins prime or Laines future. It's about them at same age.

OK.

Laine from last year is a demonstratively worse player than rookie Ovechkin. Like it's not even close honestly.

It says everything about the comparison that the 7 month age difference is the argument you're clinging to.

 

[Alf the dwarf]

International Junior totals:
Ovechkin 1.28 GPG 41 goals in 32 GP
Laine 0.94 GPG 16 goals in 17 GP
1.28 > 0.94

International-Jr

39

41

18

59

1.51

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is what elite prospect says about Laines international stats.

 

[Hivemind]

Laine is a special player and I think he's poised to be one fo the NHL's best chances at having a 60 goal scorer in the next 5 years or so.

But that being said, comparing him to Ovechkin is still a stretch. Especially when you're essentially basing the entirety of the argument on the fact the NHL was locked out in what would have been Ovechkin's rookie season.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Does anyone really think that if given the same opportunity Ovechkin wouldn't have put up better numbers than Laine at the same age?

 

[Alf the dwarf]

International-Jr

39

41

18

59

1.51

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is what elite prospect says about Laines international stats.

And Ovechkin played at u20-wjc as 18 and 19 years old. Laine didn't because of NHL

 

[grieves]

Does anyone really think that if given the same opportunity Ovechkin wouldn't have put up better numbers than Laine at the same age?

So what was the problem then in the Russian league? Ovis stats at the same age needs some serious explaining if you want to go this route.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Great thread OP, make a nonsense claim that can't be proven or disproven because Ovechkin couldn't play in the NHL at 19, and refuse to listen to anyone's points while parroting the same stats about Laine's teenage years over and over. You're not going to convince anyone and no one is going to convince you, what's the point of this thread?

So what was the problem then in the Russian league? Ovis stats at the same age needs some serious explaining if you want to go this route.

Did Ovechkin double in talent over one summer or something? Going from under PPG in what apparently was the 3rd best league in Europe (lol) to 50 goals/100 points in the NHL is nothing short of a miracle. It's almost like teenagers didn't get playing time in Russia by design and the league had lower scoring rates and no secondary assists.

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Great thread OP, make a nonsense claim that can't be proven or disproven because Ovechkin couldn't play in the NHL at 19, and refuse to listen to anyone's points while parroting the same stats about Laine's teenage years over and over. You're not going to convince anyone and no one is going to convince you, what's the point of this thread?



Did Ovechkin double in talent over one summer or something? Going from under PPG in what apparently was the 3rd best league in Europe (lol) to 50 goals/100 points in the NHL is nothing short of a miracle. It's almost like teenagers didn't get playing time in Russia by design and the league had lower scoring rates and no secondary assists.

Im listening and answering. And I also think Ovechkin took huge leap when he finally entered NHL and was absolutely fantastic player. No need to get angry. Im not trying to convince anyone. For me it's clear which one was better as teen.

 

[grieves]

Might wanna look at the below post also (Btw, Laine was the only player to reach 20 PP goals last season and they are not even double shifting him [yet]).

Post from jepjepjoo:

--

Lets compare Laine's 2nd season to Ovi's first:

2017-2018 Winnipeg Jets had 274 pp opportunities
2005-2006 Washington Capitals had 495 pp opportunities

Ovechkin had 6:43 pp, toi 14:05 ev toi, season total: 1,751:22
Laine had 3:00 pp toi, 13:28 ev toi, season total: 1,351:25

hypothetically if Laine had Ovechkin's ev+pp TOI he would have scored 69 goals 108pts

Of course this isn't a fair comparision, but it puts the 05-06 season into context."

--

So far Laine is ahead of Ovi. You can slice it and dice it any way you want but it won't change this fact. Maybe the situation changes in the future, maybe not. People develop individually anyway so the age comparison is only the best guess we have.

If we would actually know the stage of physical development for these guys, we could do a more accurate comparison. I suspect Laine would separate himself even more in this case having the larger frame and injury history, but this is pure speculation.

Didn't get much opposition to this btw.

 

[Hivemind]

International-Jr

39

41

18

59

1.51

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is what elite prospect says about Laines international stats.

You're including U16 and U17 competitions. I have no idea what the other poster is looking at (not sure which subset of competition totals 17 games for Laine).

Ovechkin only played 3 games of U16 and no games of U17. He jumped immediately to U18 play in 2001-02, scoring 18 points in 8 games as an underager and 31 points in 14 games total. Couting Ovechkin's U18 play, he had 41 goals and 54 points in 32 total international junior games spread across U18 and U20.

 

[grieves]

Great thread OP, make a nonsense claim that can't be proven or disproven because Ovechkin couldn't play in the NHL at 19, and refuse to listen to anyone's points while parroting the same stats about Laine's teenage years over and over. You're not going to convince anyone and no one is going to convince you, what's the point of this thread?



Did Ovechkin double in talent over one summer or something? Going from under PPG in what apparently was the 3rd best league in Europe (lol) to 50 goals/100 points in the NHL is nothing short of a miracle. It's almost like teenagers didn't get playing time in Russia by design and the league had lower scoring rates and no secondary assists.

Those ever so valuable second assists. Laine scored 44 goals in the NHL while we are making excuses about second assists in the Russian league.

 

[shtorm2005]

I think difference is that Laine isn't a power forward.

 

[Randyne]

International-Jr

39

41

18

59

1.51

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is what elite prospect says about Laines international stats.

it's not the WJC and WJC18 numbers.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Those ever so valuable second assists. Laine scored 44 goals in the NHL while we are making excuses about second assists in the Russian league.

Matthews scored 40 goals in the NHL while Selanne never even hit 40 in the Finnish league, guess Matthews >>> Selanne as a teenager.

 

[ricky0034]

Laine is like the 5th best player on his own team

 

[biotk]

Having watched Laine and Ovechkin at the exact same age (and I say this because I know that age is super, super all important to Laine fans) that being when Ovechkin started in the NHL at 20 years 18 days, and when Laine finished his most recent season (he was older than that for the last 7 playoff games), there is really no comparison.

Laine probably has the best shot I have ever seen. Ovechkin completely dominated. Ovechkin was the driving force in every game he played. I mean the next closest teammate was 49 points behind him. Laine is not the driving force. These two players are about as different as can be.

 

[grieves]

Matthews scored 40 goals in the NHL while Selanne never even hit 40 in the Finnish league, guess Matthews >>> Selanne as a teenager.

Hold on. Selänne had 33 goals in 42 games as a 20yo in FEL. That's pretty decent. In fact that is more than decent.

 

[The Assclown]

How or why is this a comparison? AO has and always will be better than Laine. One player can dominate entirely by himself and the other has a nice shot.

 

[Randyne]

I have no idea what the other poster is looking at (not sure which subset of competition totals 17 games for Laine).

WJC and WJC18. For Laine also IH18 (Hlinka Gretzky Cup)
Patrik Laine - Wikipedia
Alexander Ovechkin - Wikipedia

 

[Martin Skoula]

Uhh... Exactly.

Why the obsession with teenaged stats? Like, what value does it actually have? Because I didn't see the enormous leap that you guys kept promising after his rookie season, his sophomore season was more of the same. All I see is people projecting other players development curves onto Laine and hoping for the best because of his "untapped physical potential" that he made little to no progress over, despite all the Finns raving about his summer work out trainer being some sort of genius.

 

[ricky0034]

can't wait till we have another couple years of Laine being like 40th in the league in points in the books so this age nonsense and these stupid comparisons can finally die

 

[grieves]

Why the obsession with teenaged stats? Like, what value does it actually have? Because I didn't see the enormous leap that you guys kept promising after his rookie season, his sophomore season was more of the same.

I edited my post completely after I actually checked Selännes stats. Your argument completely lost it's footing after that.

Here is the deal why we need to keep age in mind in these developmental years:

18 - 24 = crucial developmental years, athlete likely to improve drastically each year leveling off at their peak (ALWAYS COMPARE BY AGE)

24 - 28 = Athlete rides out their peak, declining very slowly during these years (FAIRLY SAFE TO COMPARE WITH PLAYERS WITHIN THE SAME AGE GROUP AND SLIGHTLY BEYOND)

28 -> dude be getting old, some more quickly than others, some can have more than a decade of juice left.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I edited my post completely after I actually checked Selännes stats. Your argument completely lost it's footing after that.

Here is the deal why we need to keep age in mind in these developmental years:

18 - 24 = crucial developmental years, athlete likely to improve drastically each year leveling off at their peak (ALWAYS COMPARE BY AGE)

24 - 28 = Athlete rides out their peak, declining very slowly during these years (FAIRLY SAFE TO COMPARE WITH PLAYERS WITHIN THE SAME AGE GROUP AND SLIGHTLY BEYOND)

28 -> dude be getting old, some more quickly than others.

Where was Laine's "drastic improvement" this year? Worse PPG, more reliant on the PP for production than his rookie year.

Based on your age logic, Crosby > Gretzky for their 18 year old years. Gretzky must have had some legendary development from 19 onwards.