Ovechkin top 10 player of all time?

[inthewings]

He's going to be the all-time goal-scoring leader when he hangs them up.

People who don't think he's a top-10 player ever are falling victim to the idea that goals, assists, and secondary assists are of equal value. They aren't. Goal-scoring is king.

Gretzky
Lemieux
Howe
Orr
Ovechkin

 

[Civetty]

I don't really like him, but yes.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Right now the only guys 100% ahead of him are Gretzky, Orr, Howe and Lemieux. I always put Hasek at 5. But after that there's a group of Bobby Hull, Beliveau, Crosby, Jagr, Bourque and Roy. OV is in that group, where he ranks is individual preference. Richard and Lafleur probably belong in that group too, but I put them at the bottom.

If I could like this, I would.

Agree 100%.

After the Big-4 it's all personal preference till about 15... with the Big-3 Goalies all fitting somewhere in there.

 

[Iapyi]

His body of work will be more impressive than that of any compiler in the top 10 list (Howe, Messier, Jagr) and at his peak he was as dominant on the ice as any NHLer outside the big 3. Those 2 combined will be enough.

Again, if he breaks the goals record. People are just incapable of fathoming how ****ing insane surpassing Gretzky in hockey's primary offensive category would be

Ovechkin will try to continue on his compiler career though I don't think he will be able to compile enough to be a top compiler. Compile upon compile he has still not compiled enough. He will also continue to compile enough hockey people to acknowledge that he has not compiled a complete game to be considered one of the top compilers.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Hasek and Lidstrom are being criminally underrated here.

 

[CloutierForVezina]

Ovechkin will try to continue on his compiler career though I don't think he will be able to compile enough to be a top compiler. Compile upon compile he has still not compiled enough. He will also continue to compile enough hockey people to acknowledge that he has not compiled a complete game to be considered one of the top compilers.

Yes, Ovechkin is a notorious compiler of 50 goal seasons and rocket richard trophies.

Gretzky was a notorious compiler of 200p seasons and art ross trophies.

What a bunch of bums.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Ovechkin will try to continue on his compiler career though I don't think he will be able to compile enough to be a top compiler. Compile upon compile he has still not compiled enough. He will also continue to compile enough hockey people to acknowledge that he has not compiled a complete game to be considered one of the top compilers.

He's scoring goals at a higher level than any forward his age in NHL history. He's far away from compiling for the sake of compiling. You don't blow through all the all time greats he has in 2 weeks when you're just hanging on eking out stats

 

[armani]

Idiotic if greatest goal scorer of all-time isn't considered top-10 (arguably, ERA adjusted). If he breaks Gretzky's record - then his positioning in history of hockey becomes even more interesting.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Your answer has to depend heavily on how you weigh D and G in your top-10. In theory, if you value positional balance, there should be 4 or 5 forwards.

Is Ovie a top-5 forward of all time? No. Gretzky, Howe, Lemieux, Hull, Beliveau are ahead of him right now. You can make an argument that he’s breathing down Hull’s neck, but Ovie still has some ground left to cover before he retires.

The other forwards in the conversation for a top-10 overall spot are Maurice Richard, Crosby, Morenz, Jagr. If you decide to put one of them in the top-10 overall, then the conversation gets interesting. IMO Ovie belongs firmly in that group, but it’s not clear-cut how they rank against each other. The next few years will be about Ovie (and Crosby!) establishing whether they finish inside that pack, or separate from it. And then, if they separate, whether they belong in a conversation with Beliveau, Hull, and maybe Lemieux under completely ideal circumstances. If they can make it interesting as a modern answer to Beliveau and Hull, then your sense of positional balance becomes very important.

I don’t see Ovie or Crosby touching Gretzky/Howe under any realistic outcome. The bar is too high.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovie is top 10 pretty easily. Compare his resume to any other player not named Gretzky or Howe and it holds up.

Bobby Hull is the player most often placed 5th on these lists, and Ovie's accomplishments are very comparable if not surpassing Hull.

 

[AD1066]

Perhaps not yet, but I think it's likely by the end of his career, assuming he stays relatively healthy and finishes 1st or 2nd in career goals.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

If his name was Al O’Connor and he was from Red Deer I wonder how much vitriol he’d get.


The one dimensional player stuff is just intentionally ignorant. He’s easily an average defensive player as of the last few years, also there is more to hockey than defense. In terms of physicality he’s easily elite for his skill level. He’s also an above average passer, and his vision/hockey IQ is elite.

When people say he’s one trick it’s because they think there are only two tricks in hockey, goals and defense.


Rather than tearing him or Crosby down, we should just be grateful we’re watching two GOATs in the hardest era of hockey.



If you must debate, a better argument is would you prefer an all time elite player in one skill, but average in other facets, or an all around really good player in all facets, but not quite elite in any.

 

[zappa4ever]

As a hockey fan of 40+ years I'd say he's:
Definitely a Top-5 Winger of all time, Pretty much a Top-3 Winger of all time
Pretty much a Top-10 Forward all time, by the end of his career no doubt, and probably Top-5
Maybe a Top-10 Player, by the end of his career most likely (Goalies and D-men don't get enough love since their stats don't fit neatly into all time evaluations)

The way he's dominated over his peers for so long is beyond impressive

 

[JD1]

Um...he is already top ten.

In no particular order:

Gretzky
Mario
Orr
Howe
Jagr
Richard
Harvey
Ovi
Bobby Hull
Hasek

Just on the outside looking in:

Gartner
Yzerman
Sakic
Brett Hull

Mike Gartner was blessed with a long and healthy career. He's a one time 50 goal man in an era of higher scoring in his prime

He doesn't belong anywhere near a discussion of the best of all time

 

[newfy]

I think hes right in that top 10 range. I could maybe see some people having preference for other players and Ovie closer to 11 or 12 but I think that those arguments would be weaker than for having him in the top 10. A guy like Bobby Hull is often on these lists mostly for his goal scoring and I think Ovechkin has passed him in that regard.

I'm Canadian but I think if a Canadian hockey player was considered the greatest scorer ever, with 3 Hart trophies and laid people out like Ovechkin has his whole career he would be way closer to 5 than 10 on these rankings. Especially now that hes got a cup and a Smythe to go with that regular season resume.

 

[ElysiumAB]

This thread is better if you pretend the OP is actually Ovechkin, and that he just discovered the internet.

 

[Iapyi]

Yes, Ovechkin is a notorious compiler of 50 goal seasons and rocket richard trophies.

Gretzky was a notorious compiler of 200p seasons and art ross trophies.

What a bunch of bums.

Thank you. Some posters, like the guy I quoted, having the mindset that disrespecting other players somehow is a good argument to beef up another player is asinine. For example calling a guy like Howe a "compiler" is simply and out and out insult to any and all hockey fans that have, are and will live.

 

[Iapyi]

He's scoring goals at a higher level than any forward his age in NHL history. He's far away from compiling for the sake of compiling. You don't blow through all the all time greats he has in 2 weeks when you're just hanging on eking out stats

Yeah like any player would sit around and think about how they want to compile. Please quit wasting everyone's time with your cockamamie compiling concept. It's inane.

 

[Voight]

If he does break Gretzky's record Crosby stans will still find a way to discredit him.

 

[Kuznetsnow]

If he does break Gretzky's record Crosby stans will still find a way to discredit him.

I mean he'll then go down as an absolutely unique player and top in the most or 2nd most important hockey stat while Crosby will be that great center that 20 years from now people will look at as the guy below McDavid and make polls arguing and trying to distinguish Crosby/Malkin/Joe Thornton. Just not quite as historic.

 

[KingBran]

NO.

There should be more main board threads about Ovechkin. Does anyone think 12 per day is enough?

It's not quite Battle of Alberta level yet.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Mike Gartner was blessed with a long and healthy career. He's a one time 50 goal man in an era of higher scoring in his prime

He doesn't belong anywhere near a discussion of the best of all time

700 goals. And he was a great teammate.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

He was a top 3 player for what 4 seasons? No way you make a "big 5" for that. He is simply not the same class of player as the "big 4", that towered over the rest of the league.

 

[K Fleur]

I mean he'll then go down as an absolutely unique player and top in the most or 2nd most important hockey stat while Crosby will be that great center that 20 years from now people will look at as the guy below McDavid and make polls arguing and trying to distinguish Crosby/Malkin/Joe Thornton. Just not quite as historic.

Nobody now has any problem distinguishing the difference between Crosby and Malkin caliber players from a guy like Joe Thornton. There is no reason for that to change in 20 years.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

He was a top 3 player for what 4 seasons? No way you make a "big 5" for that. He is simply not the same class of player as the "big 4", that towered over the rest of the league.

If you’re a top 3 player for a while in an era where most of the league is garbage is that worth more than 3-4 years in the most competitive era of hockey ever?



I’m tired of seeing arguments that act like the talent pool is the same in the 80’s as it is today.