Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[wetcoast]

This clown post didn't take long to age like milk.

Nothing like taking a quote out of context eh?

But sure Jason Dickinson is an elite NHL player too with his last game.

But when it happens, like it has since Jan 1st, people like you will be deflecting attention away from reality no doubt but hey he hit 50 goals again go back to talking about how great he is (and he is the greatest goalscorer of all time) but for some goals are the only thing right?

 

[AD1066]

Nothing like taking a quote out of context eh?

But sure Jason Dickinson is an elite NHL player too with his last game.

But when it happens, like it has since Jan 1st, people like you will be deflecting attention away from reality no doubt but hey he hit 50 goals again go back to talking about how great he is (and he is the greatest goalscorer of all time) but for some goals are the only thing right?

As opposed to +/- being the only thing?

 

[Caps8112]

Nothing like taking a quote out of context eh?

But sure Jason Dickinson is an elite NHL player too with his last game.

But when it happens, like it has since Jan 1st, people like you will be deflecting attention away from reality no doubt but hey he hit 50 goals again go back to talking about how great he is (and he is the greatest goalscorer of all time) but for some goals are the only thing right?

i asked you a few pages back with no answers. What would be the correct way to use old man ovi now according to you? you keep going on about how he is hurting the team. What would you do differently? Who do you want to give his 2nd pp time too? Should they demote him to the 3rd line? where are you going with all of this? Should they have let him walk in FA or trade him so they can dismantle the team and start over?

 

[abo9]

Interested to see which poster wins this one:

Predict how many goals for Ovechkin in 2021-2022

Nice to see all the debbie downers (less than 40 goals) super wrong.

And wow, I put between 45 and 50 -> 47, thinking that would be an amazing feat. But Ovechkin still beating expectations.

I just reread 2 pages... and someone predicted an "outrageous" 58 goals might actually be pretty darn close depending on Ovechkin's last few games

 

[wetcoast]

As opposed to +/- being the only thing?

No one ever said it was the only thing, what I pointed out was that his ES play was quite crappy since January 1st and there are lots of indicators that back up the eye test there.

But the same crowd also believed that somehow this wasn't any problem at all in 14=3-14 too because he led the league in goals.

 

[wetcoast]

i asked you a few pages back with no answers. What would be the correct way to use old man ovi now according to you? you keep going on about how he is hurting the team. What would you do differently? Who do you want to give his 2nd pp time too? Should they demote him to the 3rd line? where are you going with all of this? Should they have let him walk in FA or trade him so they can dismantle the team and start over?

I have been on the record that paying any player in history at age 36 a $9.5 X 5 year contract is just plain lousy in hockey terms and will hurt any team doing so.

The team is all in on Ovi getting the record that's why he gets 80% offensive zone starts and even with that he is hurting his team at ES and it will get worse not better as he ages.

That's all great for the record and all but how are other players going to be developed in such an atmosphere?

They probably should have singed him to a shorter deal and if winning the SC anytime soon is really a goal they would be developing a team culture not a lets get Ovi the record culture.

But the contract and the legend of Ovi has the team in a quagmire and it isn't going to age well IMO.

But if all one cares about is him breaking the record then they will be happy as all indications are that Washington is going to go out of their way to make it so.

 

[AD1066]

No one ever said it was the only thing, what I pointed out was that his ES play was quite crappy since January 1st and there are lots of indicators that back up the eye test there.

But the same crowd also believed that somehow this wasn't any problem at all in 14=3-14 too because he led the league in goals.

I think you just don't like the guy (and that's perfectly fine). But I don't see this level of "concern" shown day in and day out for anyone else's supposed effectiveness at ES.

Was McDavid a "problem" when he finished -6 a few years ago? A net negative to his team at even-strength? Is Drew Doughty one of the worst defensive players in the league these past few years?

Everyone knows a 36 year old Ovechkin isn't the player he once was, but he's still capable of scoring 50 goals, which he proved last night. Only a handful of guys in the league can do that at any age and the Capitals would be stupid to stop deploying him in favor of some grinder, which you seem to be advocating for.

 

[SkinsFan09]

While he's talking about only goals does Wetcoast know Ovechkin is one of only 8 players at age 36 or older to hit 85 points in a season?

 

[wetcoast]

I think you just don't like the guy (and that's perfectly fine). But I don't see this level of "concern" shown day in and day out for anyone else's supposed effectiveness at ES.

Was McDavid a "problem" when he finished -6 a few years ago? A net negative to his team at even-strength? Is Drew Doughty one of the worst defensive players in the league these past few years?

Everyone knows a 36 year old Ovechkin isn't the player he once was, but he's still capable of scoring 50 goals, which he proved last night. Only a handful of guys in the league can do that at any age and the Capitals would be stupid to stop deploying him in favor of some grinder, which you seem to be advocating for.

Actually I had the same concerns with my Canucks trotting out the Sedins as the #1 line past their due date as well.

Among the Big 4 Mario has huge problems as an ES player and I have been quite vocal and consistent about it even though he is IMO probably the best PP player of all time.

I get the offensive zone start thing but when it get way above 80% at ES and the TOI stays the same it's hard to hide the aging.

I also don't like or dislike Ovi (I won't get into the other thing that can't be discussed here), he is the greatest goal scorer of all time and a top 101-15 player as well its the hyperbole that some posters have about him (same thing that some had about EK BTW) that defy reality that's the problem.

I guess if I had to put it another way I'm not a fan of any player or team in the true sense of the word as it's short for fanatic and when any claim is made, or if I have an idea say that Wayne is better than Orr all time, I challenge that thought fully and don't like selective arguments that don't look at the whole picture.

 

[SkinsFan09]

The team is all in on Ovi getting the record that's why he gets 80% offensive zone starts and even with that he is hurting his team at ES and it will get worse not better as he ages.

They probably should have singed him to a shorter deal and if winning the SC anytime soon is really a goal they would be developing a team culture not a lets get Ovi the record culture.

Ovechkin gets offensive zone starts because when you have the best goal scorer ever you put him in a position to score goals, which last I checked, is how you win games. This is like saying the Bulls only set up plays at the end of games for Jordan to improve his legacy - actually it's because he's the most clutch shooter in NBA history but okay.

You're aware that despite missing half their team for a significant chunk of the season they are going to make the playoffs and if not for goaltending, would have as good a shot as any other team to make a Cup run? When they've been healthy this year they have been very very good. You make it seem like they are tanking right now while Ovechkin gets 50 goals.

 

[Caps8112]

I have been on the record that paying any player in history at age 36 a $9.5 X 5 year contract is just plain lousy in hockey terms and will hurt any team doing so.

The team is all in on Ovi getting the record that's why he gets 80% offensive zone starts and even with that he is hurting his team at ES and it will get worse not better as he ages.

That's all great for the record and all but how are other players going to be developed in such an atmosphere?

They probably should have singed him to a shorter deal and if winning the SC anytime soon is really a goal they would be developing a team culture not a lets get Ovi the record culture.

But the contract and the legend of Ovi has the team in a quagmire and it isn't going to age well IMO.

But if all one cares about is him breaking the record then they will be happy as all indications are that Washington is going to go out of their way to make it so.

while you are entitled to your opinion I completely disagree with just about everything you said.
the money a player makes doesnt matter if the production he provides is equivalent. Yes the final 2 years might be below average for a 10 million dolalr player but Ovi will retire as a 30 goal scorer at worst.
Putting Ovi in the best position to score seems like common sense. If the player getting those starts is irrelevant why dont the caps put hathaway, mojo, wilson, oshie or anyone else in 80% offensive zone starts. Its almost as if they have been doing this most of his career because he happens to be the most successful when given these advantages.
Even if the team came out and said we are trying to win the cup while also doing what we can to give ovi every opportunity to achieve the record, what would be wrong with that? Given that Ovi scores around 50 goals every year anyway I doubt much has had to change that the team didnt already do anyway. And scoring 50 goals can only be good for the overall record of the team.
In my opinion the team tries to win the cup every year. I dont believe they have the goalie to do that this year and they didnt address it at the deadline due to ridiculous asking prices. I dont believe the team said ah F it lets just keep chasing the record.
so what should they have done? let ovi walk at 35? demote the 50 goal scorer to the 3rd line? you think the Pens are going to dp that when crosbys contract is up? no they will pay him whatever he wants for the rest of his career. You still havent said what you would do differently. the caps dont have any prospects that are worth developing over taking away playing time from a legend still doing legend things. Your basically just saying its not fair that the caps are giving ovi every opportunity to break the record and its hurting the team. but its not, because they are still a playoff team and have the same slot machine chance to win as everyone else.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Makes me curious to see a stat of “most career games with at least one goal.”

• Gretzky - 638 games
• Howe - 635 games
• Jagr - 623 games
• Ovechkin - 590 games

Then pretty much all of the other players with 650-750 goals (Shanahan through Hull) have around 520-570 regular season games with at least one goal.

 

[Fallschirmyager]

That happened because Dale Hunter was his coach!

And George McPhee was the GM. He hired 4 head coaches in the Ovi era. Grand total these 4 coaches had 0 games as an NHL head coach to begin. Hanlon and Oates at least some time as NHL assistant coaches.
Dale Hunter had no coaching experience at any professional level prior to taking on the job. GMGM is the one most responsible for those "down" years second only to Ted Leonsis for not firing him sooner.

Ovechkin gets offensive zone starts because when you have the best goal scorer ever you put him in a position to score goals, which last I checked, is how you win games. This is like saying the Bulls only set up plays at the end of games for Jordan to improve his legacy - actually it's because he's the most clutch shooter in NBA history but okay.

You're aware that despite missing half their team for a significant chunk of the season they are going to make the playoffs and if not for goaltending, would have as good a shot as any other team to make a Cup run? When they've been healthy this year they have been very very good. You make it seem like they are tanking right now while Ovechkin gets 50 goals.

Ever notice how he blames Ovi for all of it but never mentions the entire team played like garbage over that same time frame? And then claims the stats don't lie?

 

[Lshap]

I have been on the record that paying any player in history at age 36 a $9.5 X 5 year contract is just plain lousy in hockey terms and will hurt any team doing so.

The team is all in on Ovi getting the record that's why he gets 80% offensive zone starts and even with that he is hurting his team at ES and it will get worse not better as he ages.

That's all great for the record and all but how are other players going to be developed in such an atmosphere?

They probably should have singed him to a shorter deal and if winning the SC anytime soon is really a goal they would be developing a team culture not a lets get Ovi the record culture.

But the contract and the legend of Ovi has the team in a quagmire and it isn't going to age well IMO.

But if all one cares about is him breaking the record then they will be happy as all indications are that Washington is going to go out of their way to make it so.

You've made some massive assumptions here...

You've convinced yourself the Caps' lineups and game strategies are prioritizing Ovechkin's personal records over winning hockey games.

Based on that assumption, you then assume their young players are being developed in a negative, selfish environment.

You then assume their team culture has been damaged and their Cup chances sacrificed.

All this based on an idea that may be totally made-up and wrong. What if there's an alternate scenario: The Caps are maxing out their core Cup-winning players and giving ice-time to their best forward (who just happens to be a generational goal-scorer). If so, Ovi is simply doing what he's been doing for more than 15 years.

 

[gtrower]

Probably Gordie Howe since he’s second all time in goals but doesn’t seem to have as many multi goal games as Gretzky, Hull, and Ovechkin.

• Gretzky - 638 games
• Howe - 635 games
• Jagr - 623 games
• Ovechkin - 590 games

Then pretty much all of the other players with 650-750 goals (Shanahan through Hull) have around 520-570 regular season games with at least one goal.

Solid guess. Believe Ovi’s scored in 40/75 games this season with a few more to go. If he can sustain next year he might make a run at it. But more likely it’ll fall in ‘23/‘24.

 

[Demandedace]

I have been on the record that paying any player in history at age 36 a $9.5 X 5 year contract is just plain lousy in hockey terms and will hurt any team doing so.

The team is all in on Ovi getting the record that's why he gets 80% offensive zone starts and even with that he is hurting his team at ES and it will get worse not better as he ages.

That's all great for the record and all but how are other players going to be developed in such an atmosphere?

They probably should have singed him to a shorter deal and if winning the SC anytime soon is really a goal they would be developing a team culture not a lets get Ovi the record culture.

But the contract and the legend of Ovi has the team in a quagmire and it isn't going to age well IMO.

But if all one cares about is him breaking the record then they will be happy as all indications are that Washington is going to go out of their way to make it so.

I assure you that I (and every other Caps fan who watches every minute of Capitals’ hockey) do not dread each shift that Ovi is on the ice at even strength. As much as you may want to scream that he is somehow a detriment to the team at even strength (lol) you could not be further from the truth

 

[19781999]

WAYNE GRETZKY

100th Goal in Season 2 – BEATS ALEX OVECHKIN BY 1 SEASON
200th Goal in Season 4
300th Goal in Season 5 – BEATS ALEX OVECHKIN BY 1 SEASON
400th Goal in Season 6 – BEATS ALEX OVECHKIN BY 3 SEASONS
500th Goal in Season 8 – BEATS ALEX OVECHKIN BY 3 SEASONS
600th Goal in Season 10 – BEATS ALEX OVECHKIN BY 3 SEASONS
700th Goal in Season 12 – BEATS ALEX OVECHKIN BY 3 SEASONS
800th Goal in Season 15 – BEATS ALEX OVECHKIN BY 3 SEASONS
894th Goal in Season 20

ALEX OVECHKIN

100th Goal in Season 3
200th Goal in Season 4
300th Goal in Season 6
400th Goal in Season 9
500th Goal in Season 11
600th Goal in Season 13
700th Goal in Season 15
800th Goal in Season 18

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

What makes you think that? His goal totals appear ridiculously flat for the last 7 years. Excluding the COVID mini-season, his totals:

49
51
48* (68 games)
48
50 (with 5 games remaining)

Doesn’t exactly scream “tapering off”.

As great as Ovie is, he is still human. Scoring 50+ goals at age 37 would be absolutely amazing. I would even go as far as saying it is near impossible but Ovechkin has a way of proving doubters wrong.
It would add another exclamation point to his already amazing career, that's for sure.

 

[filinski77]

You've made some massive assumptions here...

You've convinced yourself the Caps' lineups and game strategies are prioritizing Ovechkin's personal records over winning hockey games.

Based on that assumption, you then assume their young players are being developed in a negative, selfish environment.

You then assume their team culture has been damaged and their Cup chances sacrificed.

All this based on an idea that may be totally made-up and wrong. What if there's an alternate scenario: The Caps are maxing out their core Cup-winning players and giving ice-time to their best forward (who just happens to be a generational goal-scorer). If so, Ovi is simply doing what he's been doing for more than 15 years.

You're completely right.

The Caps are THE oldest team in the league, who have also missed significant time from most of their top-6.

Despite the above, Ovechkin has lead the team to 11th place in the league, because he's been the offensive driver all year for the team. He has 13 points and 26 more goals than #2 on the Caps in both categories.

You can sample out any small portion of the season all you want, but overall, Ovechkin is the reason this team is in the playoffs. No doubt about it.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I mean for all the talk about OVI getting old, the game right now is pretty soft. He's still the strongest and biggest dude on the ice most nights, I'm not really suprised his body is holding up so well since he was conceived in a russian test tube. He's just built different . Incredible athlete

 

[AD1066]

I think the target for next year should be 40 goals. Assuming he's gets 2-3 more in the final 5 games, 40 next season would leave him about 70 shy of the record. Then roughly 30-20-20 would be enough, with a few extra goals in any one of those seasons.

 

[abo9]

As great as Ovie is, he is still human. Scoring 50+ goals at age 37 would be absolutely amazing. I would even go as far as saying it is near impossible but Ovechkin has a way of proving doubters wrong.
It would add another exclamation point to his already amazing career, that's for sure.

Well he's already doing things nobody else has done.

I'm pretty sure he just beat Selanne with the best goalscoring season for a 36 years old.

He's already breaking down the walls of whats possible and impossible to do in the NHL

 

[Fallschirmyager]

Well he's already doing things nobody else has done.

I'm pretty sure he just beat Selanne with the best goalscoring season for a 36 years old.

He's already breaking down the walls of whats possible and impossible to do in the NHL

This is what will be interesting to see over the next decade. The normal high end goal scorers run out of steam by their 30's. The only outlier is really Ovi. He's proving HE can do it which does tend to make other believe they can as well but there is no high end goal scorer in the game today that makes me believe they can follow his path. Before anyone loses their mind Matthew's hasn't proven remotely durable enough to follow that path.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Well he's already doing things nobody else has done.

I'm pretty sure he just beat Selanne with the best goalscoring season for a 36 years old.

He's already breaking down the walls of whats possible and impossible to do in the NHL

Agreed. That's why I am not counting him out. If we can just get Wetcoast riled up enough to keep trashing Ovechkin, he'll be at 830+ by the end of next year.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Longest gap between 90 point seasons

Player	Season	Gap
Gordie Howe	1969​	15​
Alexander Ovechkin	2022​	11​
Steve Larmer	1990​	6​
Bobby Smith	1988​	5​
Claude Giroux	2018​	5​
Dino Ciccarelli	1993​	5​
Evgeni Malkin	2018​	5​
Lanny McDonald	1983​	5​
Mark Recchi	2000​	5​
Teemu Selanne	2006​	5​

This was a difficult report to generate, but I think this captures every player with a gap of at least 5 years between 90 point seasons. Let me know if anything looks incorrect.

Longest gap between 40 assist seasons

Player	Season	Gap
Alexander Ovechkin	​ 2022​	10​
Mathieu Schneider	2007	9​
Alex Delvecchio	1962	8​
Ray Ferraro	2001	8​
Drew Doughty	2018	7​
Doug Crossman	1990	6​
Elmer Lach	1952	6​
John Bucyk	1969	6​
Michael Nylander	2002	6​
Owen Nolan	2000	6​
Rob Blake	2001	6​
Rod Brind'Amour	2007	6​
Sergei Fedorov	2003	6​
Steven Stamkos	2018	6​
Ted Lindsay	1957	6​

Same comment - I think this is accurate but let me know if you see any errors.