Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[george14]

It's really pointless to debate Matthews in this context because Ovi and he are in completely different stages of their career. Ovi has had the career to be chasing records now. Matthews has to keep up what he is doing currently to be in the same position come his mid-30s.

After six seasons, Ovi was at around 300 goals, Matthews is at around 260 goals. After these seasons Ovi had a few lower scoring seasons, and Matthews seems to be able to have a few very good seasons coming, so it could even out within the next 5 years. But no one has a crystal ball.

Through their exact games played, Matthews is 16 goals behind Ovi. IIRC, Ovi also went scoreless in 4-5 straight at this point in his career, so when the next 4-5 games are done, Matthews will be even closer.

It's bizarre to see how neck and neck they are at the same age.

 

[Zuluss]

Dude Ovechkin never scored 51 goals in 50 games like Matthews.

Ovechkin scored 49 goals in 50 games (end of 12/13 and beginning of 13/14) during the period no one but him could repeat 40 goals in a full season.
This season, we have 7 40-goal players with 10 games to go.

Dude Ovechkin never scored 51 goals in 50 games like Matthews. And Matthews has spent 6 seasons in the NHL scoring at least 34 goals every season. Ovechkin only managed to score at least 32 goals every season his first 6 years in the league, thus having a lower floor than Matthews...

Again, league-wide scoring - and let's return to this in 5 years when age starts catching up with Matthews.

 

[WarriorofTime]

This is about Ovechkin's milestones, Matthews may reach those milestones some day, not sure why this has turned into a debate.

 

[Demandedace]

This is about Ovechkin's milestones, Matthews may reach those milestones some day, not sure why this has turned into a debate.

Especially in a higher scoring league than we have seen in a while. Technically, it is benefiting both of them right now, but it helps boosts Matthews’ early career stats to make him look superior as some of these posters are using

 

[TJHKY]

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Best goal scorer of all time and likely never to be surpassed in our live times. Let’s just celebrate the fact that we were lucky enough to be able to watch his career. I was fortunate to see him live and watch him score one from his office against my Vancouver Canucks. He still celebrated like a 19 year old kid! I’ll never forget that moment!

 

[ovikovy817]

7/7 since we do not play RS hockey in other months.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Dude Ovechkin never scored 51 goals in 50 games like Matthews. And Matthews has spent 6 seasons in the NHL scoring at least 34 goals every season. Ovechkin only managed to score at least 32 goals every season his first 6 years in the league, thus having a lower floor than Matthews...

Ovechkin had 48 in 50 in a much lower scoring league with nobody on Marner's level alongside him. Now yes part of that is evened out by PP time but you're making it seem like his best was 34 in 50.

 

[Big Phil]

I am not sure what the fuss is about. Ovechkin is 120 goals from breaking this. So either two 60 goal seasons and he gets it by spring of 2024. Not going to happen. Three of 40 and he gets it by 2025. Maybe if he stays healthy. Or 4 of 30 and he gets it when he is likely to retire in 2026. In other words, we have at least three years as the best scenario to see if he breaks this. Why all the worrying/gloating whatever you want to call it now? It might be broken in 2025. Maybe.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Dude, don't sell Matthews short. I was one of the few saying that Ovechkin would break Gretzky's goal record here back in 2013 and even had a few threads about it taken down. And look were we are at now... Matthews has a very special way of scoring goals. It's like the puck just comes to him. He hardly ever has to work in order to score. It looks so effortless when Matthews scores. That will most likely mean that Matthews ages much better than your average hockey player. Plus he spends a lot of time in Sedona Arizona with all those meditating health freaks, so I wouldn't be shocked if Matthews plays hockey well into his 40s just like Ovechkin might do...

He MUST age better than your average hockey player to have a chance. As Ovechkin has…

”well into his 40’s” seems a bit unrealistic to me however, but I wish him good health.

 

[andrjusha]

Ovi had 273 goals after 401 games, Matthews 257 after 401.
OV needed 5 seasons (+5 games) for those games, Matthews 6 seasons (-10 games).
After those 401 games OV had couple years slump, will see how Matthew does, if he can sustain 70G pace - he can catch up. And after that it is like predicting COVID trajectory, we all remember those early naive bell curves

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

Alex Ovechkin ranks second all-time to Wayne Gretzky, with the Caps' captain scoring 48 of his 775 career goals into an empty net (6.14 percent) compared to Gretzky's 56 out of 894 (6.26 percent).

So Alex still has a few empty net goals to score to even out things with Gretzky.

I still remember a game where Gretzky scored 3 ENGs against Hartford. Edmonton won 7-3. Keeping your goaltender pulled when the score was 6-3 was pretty dumb. Lol.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I still remember a game where Gretzky scored 3 ENGs against Hartford. Edmonton won 7-3. Keeping your goaltender pulled when the score was 6-3 was pretty dumb. Lol.

This is the problem with memories; the Oilers never defeated Hartford by a 7-3 margin.

I also looked for evidence that Gretzky scored three empty-net goals in any single NHL game and gave up after 15 minutes. Noting that absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, I'd love more details on what you think happened and when.

 

[andrjusha]

This is the problem with memories; the Oilers never defeated Hartford by a 7-3 margin.

I also looked for evidence that Gretzky scored three empty-net goals in any single NHL game and gave up after 15 minutes. Noting that absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, I'd love more details on what you think happened and when.

Here is a full list of Gretz EN goals, he only scored two in same game once agains VAN

Wayne Gretzky | Goal Finder | Stathead.com

Find all-time goals fitting given criteria

stathead.com

OV also did it once against DET

 

[Hockey Outsider]

This is the problem with memories; the Oilers never defeated Hartford by a 7-3 margin.

I also looked for evidence that Gretzky scored three empty-net goals in any single NHL game and gave up after 15 minutes. Noting that absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, I'd love more details on what you think happened and when.

I suspect he's referring to this game: Edmonton Oilers at Hartford Whalers Box Score — March 25, 1981 | Hockey-Reference.com

It looks like the Oilers were up 4-2 late in the third. Based on Mike Veisor's minutes, the Whalers appear to have kept their goalie out for the last 2+ minutes. Gretzky scored an empty-netter, then assisted on two others (from Messier and Anderson). So he did have three EN points in one game (just that two of them were assists).

Why did the Whalers leave their goalie out after it was 5-2 with 56 seconds to go (or especially after it was 6-2 with 42 seconds to go)? Heading into that day's games, they were 7 points out of the playoffs, with 6 games to go, and the Oilers were tied for that final playoff spot. They pretty much had to win this game (and every other remaining game), to even have a chance of making the playoffs (which also would have required several teams ahead of them to stumble).

 

[Bear of Bad News]

This is why I love this place - thank you both!

 

[apparentlyclueless]

Dude Ovechkin never scored 51 goals in 50 games like Matthews. And Matthews has spent 6 seasons in the NHL scoring at least 34 goals every season. Ovechkin only managed to score at least 32 goals every season his first 6 years in the league, thus having a lower floor than Matthews...

League-wide scoring was never this high during Ovechkin's career (before this season).

I doubt Matthews is ever going to score 76 goals during one season. Alexander Mogilny did. Does this mean Mogilny is better goalscorer?

 

[kaiser matias]

Impressive totals for April, considering the regular season usually ends in the first week or so then, so considerably less games for Ovechkin to score in.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

This is the problem with memories; the Oilers never defeated Hartford by a 7-3 margin.

I also looked for evidence that Gretzky scored three empty-net goals in any single NHL game and gave up after 15 minutes. Noting that absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence, I'd love more details on what you think happened and when

My mistake. It was a long time ago.

It was 7-2 and the Oilers did indeed score 3 empty net goals. The Whalers had their goalie pulled down 6-2. Pretty bad game theory there. Lol.

Gretzky did not score all three goals but got 3 points on the empty netters. 1 goal and 2 assists. He ended up with a 4 point game overall.

Edit: I see others have already referenced it.

Oilers 7-2 Whalers (Mar 25, 1981) Box Score | StatMuse

The Hartford Whalers barely put up a fight against the Edmonton Oilers, 7 to 2, on March 25, 1981.

www.statmuse.com

 

[wetcoast]

In his best 2 goal-scoring seasons, Ovechkin led #10 in goals by 63% and 61%
At the moment, Matthews is leading #10 in goals by 53%. Last season, his lead was 57%.
Close, but no cigar.

As for the "higher goal scoring floor", we will see about that in 5 years or so.

The % differences offer little to no distinction and your assumption is that 10th place every year is somehow the same level of player as well.

Also the 10th place finisher tells us more about the guy in 10th place than the guys in first place.

Adjusted goals has AM slightly better.

 

[wetcoast]

Obligatory post of the goal.

PS: Man I love this player

Ironically the secondary assist guy did the most work on that play.

 

[Jets4Life]

Whats working for Matthews benefit, is that Matthews after 6 NHL seasons is 24 years old where as Ovechkin was 26 years old.

So even if Matthews has been sidelined with injuries he will have 100+ games in advance for the lockouts. Ovie propably lost atleast 60 goals for the lockouts (say about 40 for 04-05 and 20 for 12-13).

Will be interesting to see how Matthews ages. Right now its looks like he is going to give it a go. 10 years at 50 goal pace would put Matthews at around 760 goals at age 34. How much more he has left at that age, we will wait and see.

blah...blah...blah...

1. Ovechkin was 25. Both have literally the same birth date, but nice of you to move the goalposts.
2. Who cares? When Matthews breaks the 600 goal mark come back and prove us wrong.
3. Leafs fan will Leafs...

 

[PlushMinus]

blah...blah...blah...

1. Ovechkin was 25. Both have literally the same birth date, but nice of you to move the goalposts.
2. Who cares? When Matthews breaks the 600 goal mark come back and prove us wrong.
3. Leafs fan will Leafs...

That poster (Roshi) is a Caps fan

 

[DRW895]

Dude Ovechkin never scored 51 goals in 50 games like Matthews. And Matthews has spent 6 seasons in the NHL scoring at least 34 goals every season. Ovechkin only managed to score at least 32 goals every season his first 6 years in the league, thus having a lower floor than Matthews...

Matthews still never has many thing that Ovechkin did and probably never will have. 51 goal on 50 games sounds impressive, but still local achievment

 

[apparentlyclueless]

The % differences offer little to no distinction and your assumption is that 10th place every year is somehow the same level of player as well.

Also the 10th place finisher tells us more about the guy in 10th place than the guys in first place.

Adjusted goals has AM slightly better.

Ahem, which adjusted goals statistic shows this? I can't find any single one that says Matthews' season this year is better than Ovie's 65-goal campaign. He's still pretty far behind, at least according to hockey-reference, and that's unlikely to change, since to my understanding their stats are prorated to 82 games already.

Matthews is not even beating Stamkos' 60-goal season, at least according to hockey-references era adjustments.

League-wide scoring really is up this year. Highest since 95-96. It's no coincidence that we have seen so many "best since 95-96" records (including Matthews' 51 in 50, previous 50 in 50 was Lemieux in that exact season) this year.