Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Beljavskij]

Sure - with 7 other hall of famers on the team.

They wouldn't win without Lemieux.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Pens actually lowkey underachieved with Lemieux and Jagr only winning 2 Cups. '93 and '96 are examples where they were an obvious favorite and upset by inferior competition. they could have been the Oilers of the 90s. There was some mismanagement at play too.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Sure - with 7 other hall of famers on the team.

Playing other teams with almost just as many hall of famers. Was a different time for the nhl with no salary cap.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Playing other teams with almost just as many hall of famers. Was a different time for the nhl with no salary cap.

Really? How many hall of famers did the Washington Capitals have back then?

How many times did the Pens face them in the playoffs?

 

[NigerianNightmare]

Pens actually lowkey underachieved with Lemieux and Jagr only winning 2 Cups. '93 and '96 are examples where they were an obvious favorite and upset by inferior competition. they could have been the Oilers of the 90s. There was some mismanagement at play too.

The 1993 Penguins - Islanders series is my favourite of all times! ... David Volek...

 

[TJHKY]

 

[edog37]

Pens actually lowkey underachieved with Lemieux and Jagr only winning 2 Cups. '93 and '96 are examples where they were an obvious favorite and upset by inferior competition. they could have been the Oilers of the 90s. There was some mismanagement at play too.

too much of a country club atmosphere after the second Cup. That & chasing Scotty Bowman out of town.

 

[Zuluss]

How do you know Ovechkins legend will grow any more than Crosbys?

Ovechkin is the best goal-scorer ever and arguably the best LW ever (the memory of Bobby Hull is beginning to fade, so Ovechkin as the best LW ever will get more and more traction)
This is something that is hard to match; just like Jagr's 4 Art Rosses in a row, the more time passes and no one comes close, the greater the respect for Ovechkin is going to be
Ovechkin also has a very high, clearly pronounced peak of three consecutive seasons. I am not sure, for example, McDavid has three consecutive seasons to match Ovechkin's 2007-2010. And again, the longer passes before anyone matches Ovechkin peak, the more impressive it is going to be.

On the other hand, the blemishes in Ovechkin's resume will look more and more petty. For the future generations of fans, Ovechkin will be a Conn Smythe winner, who won the first Cup for his franchise and led his era in PO goals. They will be much less receptive to stories of Caps PO struggles, just like no one holds early-career PO struggles of Yzerman and Datsyuk against them. Likewise, all the silly complaints about Ovechkin's down seasons will end, just like no one remembers any longer Hull's and Howe's under-ppg seasons, and even the memories of Jagr's Washington stint are beginning to fade.

Crosby's legend has very little growth potential, since he is not close to being the best ever in anything. There is nothing in his career for the next generations to look at and be amazed. Three Lindsays? McDavid has matched that already. Two Art Rosses? Duh. Three Cups in the salary-cap era? Toews and Kane also have three, Kucherov and Stamkos and Vasi may well join them. Crosby is likely to be overshadowed by McDavid; more prolific scorers will likely come.
In a sense, Crosby's legend is already beginning to fade - as much as Crosby was pumped to be 1B to Ovechkin's 1A in 2007-2010, no one is buying that any longer. Back in 2007-2010, many folks drank the media cool-aid and bought in "the rivalry" NHL was trying to sell. Now pretty much everyone realizes that in 2007-2010 Ovechkin was just better.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

*Opens Ovechkin Milestone Thread*
Most comments are just arguments over the Pens vs. Caps.

Yup, checks out...

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ovechkin is the best goal-scorer ever and arguably the best LW ever (the memory of Bobby Hull is beginning to fade, so Ovechkin as the best LW ever will get more and more traction)
This is something that is hard to match; just like Jagr's 4 Art Rosses in a row, the more time passes and no one comes close, the greater the respect for Ovechkin is going to be
Ovechkin also has a very high, clearly pronounced peak of three consecutive seasons. I am not sure, for example, McDavid has three consecutive seasons to match Ovechkin's 2007-2010. And again, the longer passes before anyone matches Ovechkin peak, the more impressive it is going to be.

On the other hand, the blemishes in Ovechkin's resume will look more and more petty. For the future generations of fans, Ovechkin will be a Conn Smythe winner, who won the first Cup for his franchise and led his era in PO goals. They will be much less receptive to stories of Caps PO struggles, just like no one holds early-career PO struggles of Yzerman and Datsyuk against them. Likewise, all the silly complaints about Ovechkin's down seasons will end, just like no one remembers any longer Hull's and Howe's under-ppg seasons, and even the memories of Jagr's Washington stint are beginning to fade.

Crosby's legend has very little growth potential, since he is not close to being the best ever in anything. There is nothing in his career for the next generations to look at and be amazed. Three Lindsays? McDavid has matched that already. Two Art Rosses? Duh. Three Cups in the salary-cap era? Toews and Kane also have three, Kucherov and Stamkos and Vasi may well join them. Crosby is likely to be overshadowed by McDavid; more prolific scorers will likely come.
In a sense, Crosby's legend is already beginning to fade - as much as Crosby was pumped to be 1B to Ovechkin's 1A in 2007-2010, no one is buying that any longer. Back in 2007-2010, many folks drank the media cool-aid and bought in "the rivalry" NHL was trying to sell. Now pretty much everyone realizes that in 2007-2010 Ovechkin was just better.

I think you're underselling Crobsy a bit. He's got a legendary resume, but yeah it's a bit like I dunno, Joe Sakic in that I don't think it has a ton of room to grow more than it already is currently in place unless he starts adding more individual hardware or gets to a more rare/vaunted number like 5 Stanley Cups in his late career. I don't think he is going to get retroactively diminished though because 2 Hart, 3 Lindsay, 2 Art Ross, 2 Rocket, 3 Stanley Cups and 2 Conn Smythe is already one of the best resumes ever. Then you add in one of the highest PPG ever and knowledge that he had some bad luck with injuries 3 seasons in his prime and there's basically no risk he turns into a "oh yeah, i guess he was pretty good" kind of player. Ovechkin has some big things going for him as far as his position being weaker historically and in the time he played, best (NHL) player from his country, best player in his franchise where he played his whole (or if he moves at the tail end, almost whole) career, best ever at a specific trait, that just so happens to be the trait most associated with the game to begin with (as neat as someone being the best faceoff man ever would be, it doesn't pack the same punch as goal scoring). I think with the record and if Crosby doesn't add anything noticeable to his existing resume then I think Ovechkin probably wins the "30 years from now" type poll (and I'll say the quiet part out loud, once a lot of these Cold War Anti-Russian Baby Boomers are not in the picture, that will help) since as you mentioned the 'criticisms' of Ovechkin will look more and more petty in hindsight. It's a whole different ballgame if the Capitals don't get that Cup in 2018, but that was in many ways, a career validating achievement as it completely erases the nonsense "but he doesn't play a winning game" type stuff.

 

[Beljavskij]

Ovechkin is the best goal-scorer ever and arguably the best LW ever (the memory of Bobby Hull is beginning to fade, so Ovechkin as the best LW ever will get more and more traction)
This is something that is hard to match; just like Jagr's 4 Art Rosses in a row, the more time passes and no one comes close, the greater the respect for Ovechkin is going to be
Ovechkin also has a very high, clearly pronounced peak of three consecutive seasons. I am not sure, for example, McDavid has three consecutive seasons to match Ovechkin's 2007-2010. And again, the longer passes before anyone matches Ovechkin peak, the more impressive it is going to be.

On the other hand, the blemishes in Ovechkin's resume will look more and more petty. For the future generations of fans, Ovechkin will be a Conn Smythe winner, who won the first Cup for his franchise and led his era in PO goals. They will be much less receptive to stories of Caps PO struggles, just like no one holds early-career PO struggles of Yzerman and Datsyuk against them. Likewise, all the silly complaints about Ovechkin's down seasons will end, just like no one remembers any longer Hull's and Howe's under-ppg seasons, and even the memories of Jagr's Washington stint are beginning to fade.

Crosby's legend has very little growth potential, since he is not close to being the best ever in anything. There is nothing in his career for the next generations to look at and be amazed. Three Lindsays? McDavid has matched that already. Two Art Rosses? Duh. Three Cups in the salary-cap era? Toews and Kane also have three, Kucherov and Stamkos and Vasi may well join them. Crosby is likely to be overshadowed by McDavid; more prolific scorers will likely come.
In a sense, Crosby's legend is already beginning to fade - as much as Crosby was pumped to be 1B to Ovechkin's 1A in 2007-2010, no one is buying that any longer. Back in 2007-2010, many folks drank the media cool-aid and bought in "the rivalry" NHL was trying to sell. Now pretty much everyone realizes that in 2007-2010 Ovechkin was just better.

Meh don't really agree on any of this. It is just speculation and basically your personal wishful thinking. Listen, I like Ovechkin and I hope he breaks the record. But I don't know if Crosby hit on your wife or something because you constantly go out of your way to pump up Ovechkin by downgrading Crosby. That's just fourth grade crap.

Ovi very well might just be recognized as the greatest goal-scorer ever (the best is Lemieux). He's probably the best LW no doubt. However, it might be good to add that it is the weakest of all positions in hockey. Who is he up against? Bobby Hull and who else? Robitaille? Shanahan?

The Center-position is and has been the most coveted position since at least the 70s. Crosbys competition includes Gretzky, Lemieux, Beliveau, Mikita, Yzerman, Messier, Dionne and more. Therefore it is pretty obvious that Crosby can never rank better than 3rd all time at center. However, the consensus is, and I don't see it changing any time soon, that Crosby is ranked above Ovechkin all-time.

Don't know why you knock Crosby down for being an all-time great allround player. He is an elite playmaker, elite scorer, elite two-way player. Ovechkin is an elite goalscorer and what else? He is 86th all-time in assists. 11th among active players. Crosby is the 2nd active goalscorer and 2nd active in assists (first when Thornton quits). Yeah Ovechkin is a better scorer (maybe the greatest ever) -- but Crosby is unique in being elite in multiple aspects of the game. Also
Crosby just like Lemieux will always have the legacy X-factor due to injuries. We both know he would have had more hardware weren't not for injuries in his prime.

Growth? What happens if Crosby wins another cup and Smythe? Then he shares the record with Roy for most smythes. I guess the debate could end up with Crosby being the top playoff performer of all time. Crosby is probably the greatest winner in the post--lockout era and I don't see anyone catching up. McDavid has yet to win something, Toews and Kane have 3, sure, but neither is close to Crosbys legacy, neither is Tampa Bay (Kuch might if he continues).

A lot of Ovechkins legacy will bank on him breaking the record. He will be the greatest no matter if he does, but it could turn to disappointment if he doesn't. In the meantime I think you just have to accept that the case for Crosby being ranked higher all time is the general assessment. Sorry.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

In a thread dedicated to Ovechkin milestones, why is it being polluted with talk about Lemieux and Crosby?

Take it over to the Ovechkin matching Peak Crosby. At least it'd be on topic there.

 

[Beljavskij]

In a thread dedicated to Ovechkin milestones, why is it being polluted with talk about Lemieux and Crosby?

Take it over to the Ovechkin matching Peak Crosby. At least it'd be on topic there.

I think mainly because Zuluss and MJ were making a case where Ovi was about to be crowned nr.5 all time and Lemieux was a poor leader nowhere near the greatness of Gretzky. I think somewhere around there is when the thread needed to have a discussion.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

I think mainly because Zuluss and MJ were making a case where Ovi was about to be crowned nr.5 all time and Lemieux was a poor leader nowhere near the greatness of Gretzky. I think somewhere around there is when the thread needed to have a discussion.

I am sure it was brought on by someone calling Ovie one dimensional or some garbage like that.

 

[ant123]

However, the consensus is, and I don't see it changing any time soon, that Crosby is ranked above Ovechkin all-time.

You mean consensus among Pens fans?

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

with 8 shots Ovi inches closer to all time NHL shots leader list

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

with 8 shots Ovi inches closer to all time NHL shots leader list

Now, now! Get your digs in now. 10 goals in 10 games is coming up.

 

[Sentinel]

Meh don't really agree on any of this. It is just speculation and basically your personal wishful thinking. Listen, I like Ovechkin and I hope he breaks the record. But I don't know if Crosby hit on your wife or something because you constantly go out of your way to pump up Ovechkin by downgrading Crosby. That's just fourth grade crap.

Ovi very well might just be recognized as the greatest goal-scorer ever (the best is Lemieux). He's probably the best LW no doubt. However, it might be good to add that it is the weakest of all positions in hockey. Who is he up against? Bobby Hull and who else? Robitaille? Shanahan?

The Center-position is and has been the most coveted position since at least the 70s. Crosbys competition includes Gretzky, Lemieux, Beliveau, Mikita, Yzerman, Messier, Dionne and more. Therefore it is pretty obvious that Crosby can never rank better than 3rd all time at center. However, the consensus is, and I don't see it changing any time soon, that Crosby is ranked above Ovechkin all-time.

Don't know why you knock Crosby down for being an all-time great allround player. He is an elite playmaker, elite scorer, elite two-way player. Ovechkin is an elite goalscorer and what else? He is 86th all-time in assists. 11th among active players. Crosby is the 2nd active goalscorer and 2nd active in assists (first when Thornton quits). Yeah Ovechkin is a better scorer (maybe the greatest ever) -- but Crosby is unique in being elite in multiple aspects of the game. Also
Crosby just like Lemieux will always have the legacy X-factor due to injuries. We both know he would have had more hardware weren't not for injuries in his prime.

Growth? What happens if Crosby wins another cup and Smythe? Then he shares the record with Roy for most smythes. I guess the debate could end up with Crosby being the top playoff performer of all time. Crosby is probably the greatest winner in the post--lockout era and I don't see anyone catching up. McDavid has yet to win something, Toews and Kane have 3, sure, but neither is close to Crosbys legacy, neither is Tampa Bay (Kuch might if he continues).

A lot of Ovechkins legacy will bank on him breaking the record. He will be the greatest no matter if he does, but it could turn to disappointment if he doesn't. In the meantime I think you just have to accept that the case for Crosby being ranked higher all time is the general assessment. Sorry.

He is spot on though.

Crosby led the league in goals TWICE and in assists ONCE. Ovechkin led the league in goals NINE times. That's THREE TIMES MORE than Crosby's goals and assists COMBINED. Once future generations see that... forget it Crosby's lone nail to hang his hat on -- PPG -- will diminish later in his career.

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

Now, now! Get your digs in now. 10 goals in 10 games is coming up.

You probably aren't wrong. haha

 

[Beljavskij]

He is spot on though.

Crosby led the league in goals TWICE and in assists ONCE. Ovechkin led the league in goals NINE times. That's THREE TIMES MORE than Crosby's goals and assists COMBINED. Once future generations see that... forget it Crosby's lone nail to hang his hat on -- PPG -- will diminish later in his career.

Yet, Crosby has twice as many Art Ross as Ovechkin.

What about cups? Will those also diminish later in in his career?

 

[Zuluss]

Crosby is the 2nd active goalscorer and 2nd active in assists (first when Thornton quits).

Crosby is at most 4th-best goal-scorer of his era (Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kovalchuk are clearly better even if we do not talk about Matthews and Draisaitl) and at most 3rd-best playmaker of his era (Thornton and H. Sedin are clearly better, even if we do not talk about McDavid). Crosby is good at many things and nothing in particular; you think it is a plus, I think exactly the opposite. I want to see more players that are truly good at something and are appreciated for that.

Crosby just like Lemieux will always have the legacy X-factor due to injuries. We both know he would have had more hardware weren't not for injuries in his prime.

No, Lemieux first dominated and then got injured, leaving us to guess how many more seasons like 1988-89 he could have had if healthy.
Crosby never dominated - not even like Malkin or Ovechkin or Jagr, forget Lemieux. Crosby's best season is probably 2009/10, when he was clearly behind Ovechkin. Then Crosby got injured and we are supposed to believe that he would have been much better than he ever was had he stayed healthy.

In the meantime I think you just have to accept that the case for Crosby being ranked higher all time is the general assessment.

10 years ago "the general assessment" was that Crosby was almost as good as Ovechkin was in 2007-2010.
Today, very few people believe that.
So give it another 10 years. This kind of "general assessments" tend to change.

I don't think he is going to get retroactively diminished though because 2 Hart, 3 Lindsay, 2 Art Ross, 2 Rocket, 3 Stanley Cups and 2 Conn Smythe is already one of the best resumes ever. Then you add in one of the highest PPG ever and knowledge that he had some bad luck with injuries 3 seasons in his prime and there's basically no risk he turns into a "oh yeah, i guess he was pretty good" kind of player.

Crosby's resume is probably worse than his awards count. If you go under the hood - is any of his Conn Smythe runs a legendary run like, say, Bossy's runs? No. Is any of his Harts a legendary season like Beliveau 1955/56 or Yzerman 1988/89? No. Every time Malkin and Ovechkin were at their best, they took away Crosby's awards - Smythe, Harts, Art Rosses. He just outlasted them, not outdid.
Even award-winning seasons fade in memory, unless they are legendary like Ovechkin's 2007/08 - or you have to have a lot of them to impress, like Jagr does. Look at Stan Mikita - 4 Art Rosses, 2 Harts, a Cup, even a legendary playoff run in a losing cause (21 points in 12 games, I don't think even Howe managed that many in the same era). Yet, 50 years have passed since Mikita retired, and he has already faded from memory. But Bobby Hull has not. Richard has not.

 

[Sentinel]

Yet, Crosby has twice as many Art Ross as Ovechkin.

What about cups? Will those also diminish later in in his career?

Henri Richard has six times as many Cups as Bobby Orr. Which one is ranked higher?
A team achievement, you know.

Dickie Moore and BB Geoffrion have two Art Rosses each. Their teammate Maurice Richard -- zero. Which one of them is ranked higher?

 

[Beljavskij]

Crosby is at most 4th-best goal-scorer of his era (Ovechkin, Stamkos, Kovalchuk are clearly better even if we do not talk about Matthews and Draisaitl) and at most 3rd-best playmaker of his era (Thornton and H. Sedin are clearly better, even if we do not talk about McDavid). Crosby is good at many things and nothing in particular; you think it is a plus, I think exactly the opposite. I want to see more players that are truly good at something and are appreciated for that.

Crosby is neither really a true playmaker or a true goalscorer. If anything you might call him a scoring playmaker.

Crosby has a case for 3rd best goalscorer over Kovalchuk. He has longevity and Rockets on him. Kovalchuk has a better scoring prime but a pretty sharp decline. Their one-season peak is about the same. Kovalchuk has a better shot but Crosby is a more creative scorer. Ovi and Stamkos is ahead.

Playmaker, I would put Thornton ahead. But Sedin? No way. I think just about any GM would have Crosby as their nr.1 playmaker (even when we forget the goal totals). Crosby and Sedin has equal amount of seasons over 50 assists (8), however without injuries in 07-08 and 10-11 Crosby would've surpassed that number and most likely had two additional 60a season. Crosby has just outscored Sedin so many times in their careers -- and Sedin was incredibly healthy during his career, kind of like Ovi.

So, at worst Crosby is 4th best goalscorer, maybe 3rd, as well as the 3rd best playmaker, maybe the 2nd among player aligning during his career. With that said he is probably THE BEST allround offensive threat during his era. No other player has the same skills of combining playmaking and scoring.

Since 2000 Crosby is 2nd in assists and 4th in goals while playing in 172 games less than Ovi -- who is 1st in goals and 14th (!) assists...

If you wanna compare against other scoring playmakers who share somewhat similar traits it looks like this:
Sidney Crosby GP 1 069 G 497 A 862 P 1 359
Patrick Kane GP 1 068 G 413 A 713 P 1 126
Daniel Sedin GP 1 306 G 393 A 648 P 1 041
Martin St. Louis GP 1 065 G 387 A 626 P 1 013
Henrik Zetterberg GP 1 082 G 337 A 623 P 960

Crosby blows them out of the water.

No, Lemieux first dominated and then got injured, leaving us to guess how many more seasons like 1988-89 he could have had if healthy.
Crosby never dominated - not even like Malkin or Ovechkin or Jagr, forget Lemieux. Crosby's best season is probably 2009/10, when he was clearly behind Ovechkin. Then Crosby got injured and we are supposed to believe that he would have been much better than he ever was had he stayed healthy.

To be honest when he got injured in 10-11 and 12-13 he was well ahead of the pack. Especially in 10-11. Had he merely scored a ppg in the final 41 games he missed, he still would have won the art ross. And this was when he was scoring at a ppg of 1,6. Unfortunately he was head-checked.

Not taking into account what if-season Ovechkin and Malkin might have had slightly better peak seasons. Yet, Crosby has the highest total points in a season. Also the 13-14 art ross win by 17 points (25 points more than Ovi) pretty much puts him in the same "dominance"-tier as Ovi and Malkin. Still nowhere close to how Lemieux and to a lesser degree Jagr would win art rosses.

10 years ago "the general assessment" was that Crosby was almost as good as Ovechkin was in 2007-2010.
Today, very few people believe that.
So give it another 10 years. This kind of "general assessments" tend to change.

Just two years ago Crosby won the Hfboard who-is-better vote by 85% or something. Maybe Ovi was better 07-10 but OVERALL Crosby has had the better career and is mainly considered the better player. If Ovi gets the goal record I'm sure their careers will be looked upon more equally. But I think most people will consider Crosby the better player.

Crosby's resume is probably worse than his awards count. If you go under the hood - is any of his Conn Smythe runs a legendary run like, say, Bossy's runs?

Are any of Ovechkins?

In the 10 years between 2000-2010 only 3 players scored more than 30 points in the PO. Malkin 36, Crosby 31, and Briere (!) 30. Extend it to 2000-2020, I think the number is 6 players. With Crosby hitting 27 points twice more. That is also Ovechkins highest point total. 27.

No. Is any of his Harts a legendary season like Beliveau 1955/56 or Yzerman 1988/89? No. Every time Malkin and Ovechkin were at their best, they took away Crosby's awards - Smythe, Harts, Art Rosses. He just outlasted them, not outdid.

Again, are any of Ovechkins?

But in general I don't agree. Both Malkin and Ovechkin are great players in their own and in their peaks I'm sure they could and did beat Crosby to awards. They also certainly benefitted due to Crosby missing a lot of time. But generally speaking it was always them chasing Crosby and not the other way around. With Crosby having one of the longest/best primes ever it makes sense that he would outlast them. What is it, 17 seasons at ppg now?

Even award-winning seasons fade in memory, unless they are legendary like Ovechkin's 2007/08 - or you have to have a lot of them to impress, like Jagr does. Look at Stan Mikita - 4 Art Rosses, 2 Harts, a Cup, even a legendary playoff run in a losing cause (21 points in 12 games, I don't think even Howe managed that many in the same era). Yet, 50 years have passed since Mikita retired, and he has already faded from memory. But Bobby Hull has not. Richard has not.

Ovi -- all time great player. 07/08 very good season for him. Don't think I would call it legendary. Can't remember too much about now in retrospect. But if you experienced it that way. By all means. I don't feel like that season is being talked about that much on the boards. I think people remember great players no matter what they did in their careers. I also think part of why people forget the older players is that there isn't that much video on them. In 50 years people can just go on youtube (or whatever it will be called) and look at Crosby/Ovechkin. So the perception of these players are probably not gonna change that much. They will probably both be downgraded a bit due to recency bias, but surely be in the top 5-15 in 50 years.

 

[daver]

Henri Richard has six times as many Cups as Bobby Orr. Which one is ranked higher?
A team achievement, you know.

Dickie Moore and BB Geoffrion have two Art Rosses each. Their teammate Maurice Richard -- zero. Which one of them is ranked higher?

When did you start picking at the low hanging fruit?

Are you seriously arguing that OV's Rocket seasons are only matched by Crosby's Art Ross winning seasons?

 

[daver]

I think you're underselling Crobsy a bit. He's got a legendary resume, but yeah it's a bit like I dunno, Joe Sakic in that I don't think it has a ton of room to grow more than it already is currently in place unless he starts adding more individual hardware or gets to a more rare/vaunted number like 5 Stanley Cups in his late career. I don't think he is going to get retroactively diminished though because 2 Hart, 3 Lindsay, 2 Art Ross, 2 Rocket, 3 Stanley Cups and 2 Conn Smythe is already one of the best resumes ever. Then you add in one of the highest PPG ever and knowledge that he had some bad luck with injuries 3 seasons in his prime and there's basically no risk he turns into a "oh yeah, i guess he was pretty good" kind of player. Ovechkin has some big things going for him as far as his position being weaker historically and in the time he played, best (NHL) player from his country, best player in his franchise where he played his whole (or if he moves at the tail end, almost whole) career, best ever at a specific trait, that just so happens to be the trait most associated with the game to begin with (as neat as someone being the best faceoff man ever would be, it doesn't pack the same punch as goal scoring). I think with the record and if Crosby doesn't add anything noticeable to his existing resume then I think Ovechkin probably wins the "30 years from now" type poll (and I'll say the quiet part out loud, once a lot of these Cold War Anti-Russian Baby Boomers are not in the picture, that will help) since as you mentioned the 'criticisms' of Ovechkin will look more and more petty in hindsight. It's a whole different ballgame if the Capitals don't get that Cup in 2018, but that was in many ways, a career validating achievement as it completely erases the nonsense "but he doesn't play a winning game" type stuff.

Pointing out that OV's nine Rocket seasons (and 09/10) are objectively weaker than Crosby's ten best seasons is not a "petty" criticism.

Serious hockey people will never get caught up in the superficial "Trophy" count.