Ovechkin just won his 9th Rocket. Does this change how you view him?

[JackSlater]

I dont know that 'anyone thinks he's better today than yesterday' - but i also think we shouldnt discount trophies altogether.

Yet another rocket - 9 for career - is a tremendous accomplishment imo.

The whole premise of the thread is based on whether people view Ovechkin more favourably one day compared to the previous day basically, despite him not having played for weeks. If a person had maybe two minutes to familiarize themself with a player they'd never heard of then putting a lot of attention on trophies would be a nice way to get a superficial grasp of a player. The more you know of a player however the more trivial trophies become. He'd be no worse a player if Pastrnak had scored an extra goal somewhere along the way or the NHL had never started awarding the Richard trophy in the first place.

 

[bobholly39]

The whole premise of the thread is based on whether people view Ovechkin more favourably one day compared to the previous day basically, despite him not having played for weeks. If a person had maybe two minutes to familiarize themself with a player they'd never heard of then putting a lot of attention on trophies would be a nice way to get a superficial grasp of a player. The more you know of a player however the more trivial trophies become. He'd be no worse a player if Pastrnak had scored an extra goal somewhere along the way or the NHL had never started awarding the Richard trophy in the first place.

Sure - and Patrick Roy would be no worst a goalie if the Avs had been shutout in game 7 in 2001 and Brodeur got the Conn Smythe instead. But it's still a nice touch that he got his 3rd conn smythe trophy.

 

[Aladyyn]

The rest of his game has not stayed the same. His goal totals dropped because he actually started to play défense. He’s gotten way better at that (not that it could get any worse than it was in his early days).

Then why were his defensive metrics so much better earlier in his career?

 

[JackSlater]

Sure - and Patrick Roy would be no worst a goalie if the Avs had been shutout in game 7 in 2001 and Brodeur got the Conn Smythe instead. But it's still a nice touch that he got his 3rd conn smythe trophy.

Good example and on a superficial level yes, it looks nice for Roy. I would hope that anyone that wants to be taken seriously looks at the quality of the player's performance, or at least their playoff runs in this case, and gives the vast majority of weight to that rather than to trophy results based on many things outside of their control.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Éric Bélanger on a recent podcast said once he got in Washington he realized why they didn't win anything despite their talent. Too much partying and lack of seriousness. His stint in Washington was in 2009-2010.

The further we'll get from Ovy's career the less impressive it'll look. At age 18 I'd rather draft Jonathan Toews, Drew Doughty, Anze Kopitar, Ryan Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, and all such players. I don't care about the Rocket Richard trophies. Freaking useless. A player of Ovechkin's caliber sets the tone around the franchise and around the lockerroom. No thanks.

 

[bobholly39]

Éric Bélanger on a recent podcast said once he got in Washington he realized why they didn't win anything despite their talent. Too much partying and lack of seriousness. His stint in Washington was in 2009-2010.

The further we'll get from Ovy's career the less impressive it'll look. At age 18 I'd rather draft Jonathan Toews, Drew Doughty, Anze Kopitar, Ryan Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, and all such players. I don't care about the Rocket Richard trophies. Freaking useless. A player of Ovechkin's caliber sets the tone around the franchise and around the lockerroom. No thanks.

Lol

 

[BenchBrawl]

Lol

Every single one of those players are way more useful for a team in a playoff run.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Not really. If anything, I’d say a 48:19 ratio to David Pastrnak’s 48:47 and Leon Draisaitl’s 43:67 emphasizes that looking at goals and assists in isolation of each other is problematic.

If only there was an award that rewarded the guy with the most goals and assists.

 

[rfournier103]

No. He was already a savage goal scorer. This award doesn’t make him any greater than he was last year.

 

[bobholly39]

Good example and on a superficial level yes, it looks nice for Roy. I would hope that anyone that wants to be taken seriously looks at the quality of the player's performance, or at least their playoff runs in this case, and gives the vast majority of weight to that rather than to trophy results based on many things outside of their control.

My point is you can narrow any trophy win, cup win, single goal or whatever other accomplishment down to nothing by saying "today vs yesterday how much does this change his career".

I agree looking only, or even mostly at awards is very limiting. But typicaly i look at a player from many different angles - and trophies is one of those. So yes - 9 rockets is a really great total.

 

[BenchBrawl]

My point is you can narrow any trophy win, cup win, single goal or whatever other accomplishment down to nothing by saying "today vs yesterday how much does this change his career".

I agree looking only, or even mostly at awards is very limiting. But typicaly i look at a player from many different angles - and trophies is one of those. So yes - 9 rockets is a really great total.

The only goal of value is to win the Stanley Cup.

People say the Rocket Richard trophies elevate Ovechkin's career.

What if instead Ovechkin's career diminished the value of the Rocket Richard trophy? Now we see clearly it's not that related to winning.

 

[Aladyyn]

The only goal of value is to win the Stanley Cup.

People say the Rocket Richard trophies elevate Ovechkin's career.

What if instead Ovechkin's career diminished the value of the Rocket Richard trophy? Now we see clearly it's not that related to winning.

Ovechkin's teams have won a hell of a lot of games over the years.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Ovechkin's teams have won a hell of a lot of games over the years.

He barely managed to survive having one of the worst playoff reputation of all-time. He won that SC, good for him. He dodged an immense bullet. It doesn't excuse everything. Globe-trotter team.

 

[Aladyyn]

He barely managed to survive having one of the worst playoff reputation of all-time. He won that SC, good for him. He dodged an immense bullet. It doesn't excuse everything. Globe-trotter team.

You put too much stock into reputation and narratives, rather than reality.

 

[bobholly39]

Every single one of those players are way more useful for a team in a playoff run.

He barely managed to survive having one of the worst playoff reputation of all-time. He won that SC, good for him. He dodged an immense bullet. It doesn't excuse everything. Globe-trotter team.

You're like.....exagerating a billion times over. Hard to take you seriously.

At least if you said you take "Sakic/Yzerman/Trottier" above Ovi - ok, that's a tier down or so, but if you like their all around game better, i suppose you can make that. But Getzlaf? That's like, 6 tiers down or something.

You also are attaching ridiculous amounts of importance to "Eric Belanger said on a podcast...". How many of Ovi's teammates would likely call him a great leader? How many past dynasties did a lot of partying too, and maybe lacked some seriousness off-ice? And - why is Eric Belanger the voice of reason here, who is he to matter so much?

It sounds like you dislike OIvi heavily, and are making absolutely ridiculous claims to pile on, with no proof whatsoever.

Also - Ovechkin absolutely did not have the worst playoff reputation of all time. That's again such a huge exaggeration. And besides, since he won a cup and doesn't have that reputation anymore as you say - why would it still matter as of today?

 

[quoipourquoi]

If only there was an award that rewarded the guy with the most goals and assists.

For which Ovechkin placed, what, 18th?

He doesn’t have a thread for accomplishing the same the thing in 2020 that Paul Stastny did in 2010, Ron Francis did in 2000, or Vincent Damphousse did in 1990.

This thread exists because he skewed so far towards one component of a point total (again) that he added a bulletpoint to his resume.

Should I be feeling substantially different about this season than I did his 2016-17 when he was 20th in scoring?

 

[bobholly39]

For which Ovechkin placed, what, 18th?

He doesn’t have a thread for accomplishing the same the thing in 2020 that Paul Stastny did in 2010, Ron Francis did in 2000, or Vincent Damphousse did in 1990.

This thread exists because he skewed so far towards one component of a point total (again) that he added a bulletpoint to his resume.

Should I be feeling substantially different about this season than I did his 2016-17 when he was 20th in scoring?

Depends on what is being looked at. If we're talking about goal-scoring, then yes, this season is certainly significant, especially given his age.

His overall resume? The rocket is a nice touch - but as you say, finishing 18th in scoring for a player with already as impressive a resume as Ovi has is not all that substantial.

 

[filinski77]

There are a lot of just outrageously bad takes in this thread.

Yes Ovechkin does not get a lot of assists, but he is still the best at the hardest and most important part of the game... who cares lmao. If it wasn't for the pandemic ending the season early, he would have finished with ~8o points.

Those 80 points would be good for around the 23rd most points ever by a 34 year old player (83 for example if he picked up the pace a couple points would be 17th). Despite being forced to lose games for things out of his control (suspension, injury, choice etc), he still finished with the most goals ever by a 34 year old player.

Things like this really just go to show how much of a personal bias' people have against him (or his nationality - who knows peoples personal agendas).

 

[Sentinel]

I just want to remind some people that Ovechkin never played with the likes of Stan Mikita, Phil Esposito, Pierre Pilote, and Glenn Hall.

In fact, as much as the Caps underachieved in playoffs over his tenureship, they were nowhere near the underachievements of Hull's Blackhawks.

As for his low assist totals: well, first of all, he does have 600+ assists (RS+PO), which is nothing to sneeze at. Second, the entire Caps strategy has been about feeding him the puck. And when he isn't fed the puck, he serves as a detractor from other forwards. That's how Caps play.

Yes, I think at this point Ovechkin has surpassed Hull. Ovy's consistency is just staggering.

 

[Sentinel]

Éric Bélanger on a recent podcast said once he got in Washington he realized why they didn't win anything despite their talent. Too much partying and lack of seriousness. His stint in Washington was in 2009-2010.

The further we'll get from Ovy's career the less impressive it'll look. At age 18 I'd rather draft Jonathan Toews, Drew Doughty, Anze Kopitar, Ryan Getzlaf, Patrice Bergeron, and all such players. I don't care about the Rocket Richard trophies. Freaking useless. A player of Ovechkin's caliber sets the tone around the franchise and around the lockerroom. No thanks.

Boy, I'm glad you're not my team's GM!

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, this got a little off the rails...Ovechkin isn't actually the devil.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

The only goal of value is to win the Stanley Cup.

People say the Rocket Richard trophies elevate Ovechkin's career.

What if instead Ovechkin's career diminished the value of the Rocket Richard trophy? Now we see clearly it's not that related to winning.

So who is that trophy named after?

 

[GMR]

Since this has become a Hull vs. OV thread, and not unreasonably, what are people's thoughts about their respective playoff resumes?

Both have an air of disappointment given the strength of their respective teams but it seems the finger can be pointed at other players not meeting expectations than Hull or OV.

There seems to be a clear difference in their overall offensive contributions as Hull has a leading PPG during his era while OV is a level the leader, similar to their regular season PPGs.

Well, they are the two best players at their position. So a natural comparison.

I'd be curious to know how people rank Ovechkin compared to Jagr? From memory, Jagr was placed on the most recent poll as the third best winger in history. Has Ovechkin surpassed him? If not, what else is needed?

 

[sr edler]

Despite being forced to lose games for things out of his control (suspension, injury, choice etc)

His own choice is out of his control?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

He barely managed to survive having one of the worst playoff reputation of all-time. He won that SC, good for him. He dodged an immense bullet. It doesn't excuse everything. Globe-trotter team.

15th all-time in goals per game in the playoffs.