OMG67
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We won’t have the assets to get those 3-4 guys. IF the Petes are getting that type of haul for those types of players, Ottawa wouldn’t be able to compete for players.
Ottawa 67's 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)
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We won’t have the assets to get those 3-4 guys. IF the Petes are getting that type of haul for those types of players, Ottawa wouldn’t be able to compete for players.
beastintheeast
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Kingston would want Mayich if we are trading for Ludwinski.
As has been shown at least at this stage the prices are going to be interesting and I again am not sure we are going not get theplayers we need without giving up a huge amount of picks or players.
Ithink that if we are going to re buld then we should be looking at trading Pinelli, Stonehouse, Mayich.
Yes 2 of them could have an extra year but that in itself adds to the price we can get in payment.
It could also speed up the rebuild depending on the players/pick packages we get.
As has been shown at least at this stage the prices are going to be interesting and I again am not sure we are going not get theplayers we need without giving up a huge amount of picks or players.
Ithink that if we are going to re buld then we should be looking at trading Pinelli, Stonehouse, Mayich.
Yes 2 of them could have an extra year but that in itself adds to the price we can get in payment.
It could also speed up the rebuild depending on the players/pick packages we get.
OMG67
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Mayich for Ludwinski wouldn’t make sense for them. 19 year old for a 19 year old. Plus, if we were to trade for Ludwinski, we’d be making a run. We don’t make a run without Mayich.
A Ludwinski deal would look more like:
To Kingston
Brady or Ewles
2x 2nds
3x 3rds
OMG67
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It may be tough though. We don’t have the luxury of an ‘07 1st to dangle. So, we‘d have to hope that kids like Brady and Kelly have value on the market as 17 year old ‘06s.
As stated above, we’d likely need two 2nds and three 3rds to nail down Ludwinski or a player like him.
The other two OA’s, lets say they are Mayer and Dubois, would cost Lawrence, Ewles and probably 2nd, 2x 3rd, 4th, 2x 5th.
A 3rd OA winger or final pairing D-Man is likely at least a 3rd and 5th.
That would leave us with two 2nds and one 5th through 2027 left in the picks cabinet. So, it could potentially be done. That said, I am probably a little light on the Mayer/Dubois deal. I have a feeling that Mayer may end up being more than we think. Same with Dubois.
There is no way that Kingston trades Ludwinski. They are surging, and will be buyers, if anything.
OMG67
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Never known you to engage in hyperbole and I know you jest but if we pick up 1, like a McCoy we would be set
beastintheeast
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Again especially the way they are playing, I think we are going to start the rebuild.
OMG what would the value of Pinelli and Mayich be as a sell.
OMG67
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The problem is your team defence. Mann has done a great job getting more organized but Kingston gives up a lot of goals. There is no sense trying to make a buyer move unless it is to really do damage. I cannot see Kingston beating Sudbury. Kingston needs to add two quality D-Men jsut to catch the rest of the crowd. The rest of the crowd is going to load up on top of that.
Adding McCoy, as an example, only brings Kingston to maybe par with the rest of the East. Even that is overly suggestive. I think they need a second one to get to a defensive foundation they can work from. After that, they then need to keep pace.
Sudbury is very likely to add Mayer and Beck. I know there is a lot of talk about Beck going West but I really think he ends up in Sudbury in a package for Walton. Him and Mayer. If that happens, Kingston needs to make a move of their own.
I don’t think this season lines up well for Kingston. The crop of ‘03s and ‘04s aren’t strong enough. The team is built better for next year provided they make the right moves at this deadline. It is more fair for Mann to get a chance to rejig this roster at the deadline this year and load up some assets for next year to battle with Missy. Take advantage of the stronger ‘05s And ‘06s.
frontsfan67
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Pinelli would go for a lot as he is back next year for sure.
I’d think if it’s just picks the 67s would be looking for- 3 second rounders and 3 or 4 3rd/4th rounders
but if there’s an 07 involved with a Pinelli trade only 2 2nd rounders and prob 1-2 3rds(to go with a first round picked player)
Me personally I don’t think the 67s will trade Pinelli unless there is a deal they cannot refuse. doesn’t make much sense to me as it looks like you guys are going to be fairly good next year as long as you sell stonehouse and maybe one of your older d’s like mayich (for picks)
Definitely agree about Sudbury- fronts would have to make some significant moves to beat them. But the rest of the east to me is wide open
OMG67
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Mayich:
Take a look at the Hache deal last year and that probably would be the blueprint for a Mayich deal this year. So, 2nd, 4th, 5th plus conditional 2nd and 5th for his OA season.
Pinelli:
Take a look at the Pano Fimis deal last year. Three 2nds and two 3rds. Both are offence first players. Pinelli is an NHL draft pick so maybe they take that a little more into account but I think that type of return is about right. The problem is if they were to trade him next year at the deadline, they’d likely get two 2nds and three 3rds so it would probably make more sense to do it next year. If Ottawa were to trade Pinelli, I think they’d want an ‘06 or ‘07 Centre plus picks depending on how good the player is.
OMG67
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I would be mega shocked if the 67’s traded either of Mayich or Pinelli. I think they would need to request a trade for that to happen.
As much as it would make sense for Ottawa to trade Stonehouse (assuming thy opt to not be a buyer), I really think they will Only add an OA to round out the roster and play out the season. Let the chips fall where they fall. The one caveat to that is if they do decide to move Donoso, they open a 2nd OA spot so they likely fill that one as well. I don’t think either of the OA’s they add will be elite. I think if they were able to get someone like Dubois, that would be as high as they would go. I doubt they would get Mayer.
OMG67
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NOTE:
Before people pile on and suggest I am flip-flopping, there is a difference between what I think they “should” do vs what I think they “will” do.
I think they should try to buy and make a run this year provided the prices are in line with the recent years. If the Prices are way too high, they should take advantage of the market and make a couple seller moves that won’t overly affect next season. Maybe move Stonehouse and look at the possibility of moving MacKenzie while committing to buy an OA goalie next year in the offseason When the prices are low.
What I think they will do is add an OA and call it a day.
Before people pile on and suggest I am flip-flopping, there is a difference between what I think they “should” do vs what I think they “will” do.
I think they should try to buy and make a run this year provided the prices are in line with the recent years. If the Prices are way too high, they should take advantage of the market and make a couple seller moves that won’t overly affect next season. Maybe move Stonehouse and look at the possibility of moving MacKenzie while committing to buy an OA goalie next year in the offseason When the prices are low.
What I think they will do is add an OA and call it a day.
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beastintheeast
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I agree that it may be unlikely that they trade either player, BUT there are teams that are looking for scoring and to help them both this year and next.
AS AN EXAMPLE ONLY do not say I am looking for these trades
Kingston is saying that they need another star D to lead the team this year and area also looking at next year and competing with Miss and Barrie. Mayich would fill that spot for them possibly.
Pinelli would be an asset to a team like Mississauga, possibly for them to make a push this year and still be a power next year with the same lineup.
I would think that the fact that these guys would be available for 2 years, possibly then there would be extra picks available in the trade.
AGAIN, I am not saying that it will happen, but I think you have to admit that they are the 2 players that would get us the highest return in trades, and if we are in a rebuild, we can start next year, or we can do it this year. Pinelli is on a team that stresses D is not an asset. Why not open a spot for Yanni and Dietsch this year so they come in with confidence instead of learning?
The worst-case scenario is we finish in the playoffs but also have a high draft choice. Not bad, considering we have 2 picks in the first round.
Just saying losing these guys is not a huge thing.
OMG67
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Anything could happen but if you put yourself in Boyd’s shoes and you have a strong sense of where he is coming from, you know he wouldn’t trade Pinelli unless he requested a trade. Again, I think Pinelli nets a similar value next year as he nets this year. Or, at least not dissimilar enough to make that move now.
Mayich is not the 2nd best trade value player. Stonehouse is. I even think MacKenzie, if he is healthy enough to be a serious trade target, would be of higher value than Mayich. Gerrior and Foster may also be a higher trade value than Mayich. Of course, we are assuming Mews and Marrelli are not in consideration so I am clearly ignoring them.
I agree that if the market looks super thin, it may entice Boyd to make a seller move while still trying to fill his OA spots effectively at a low cost With suitable players. It may very well happen. But, Pinelli and Mayich? I think that is a stretch. Two players returning next year? One of them the Captain.
I get what you are saying and I don’t disagree that Pinelli would be the most valuable of the potential trade candidates (by the end of next year). I just can’t see it this year. It would need to be a very significant ‘06 or ‘07 to make it worth while this year vs next year. I don’t think Pinelli is coveted enough to garner that sort of trade config. I honestly feel the defensive holes in his game are pretty huge. Huge enough that his trade value will be draft picks only.
Pinelli makes zero sense at all. That’s a Beast “get a conversation started” special.
IF they were to sell, you would have to consider all the 19 year olds, including Mackenzie. With all of the buyers this season, the OA market will be flooded next year.
The best age group this organization has is the 18 year olds with Pinelli, Foster, Gardiner, Barlas, Dever, Uronen, Ewles and Horner.
How do you make a run in a year when your top 19 year old star player is Stonehouse or Mayich? Both of those players are complementary players on champions but aren’t the stars. If they sold off on their 19 year olds, they would have enough assets to get the best player in the league next year and then some. Remember, this core doesn’t have a 19 or 20 year old first rounder.
OMG67
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Again, it isn’t about going in blind and assuming we are good. You need to take into account what trajectory the other teams are on. One of the reasons why there is parity this year, especially in the East, is because a lot of teams are lined up for next year. The competitive landscape is far different next year. FAR DIFFERENT.
Our 18 year olds aren’t really that good. They are a strong overall class collectively but none of those trend to be a front line forwards on a Championship roster. Maybe as a passenger but not as a catalyst. Ewles and Horner wouldn’t be in the starting six of a Championship calibre team. One might hang on as a #6/7 but clearly replaceable parts.
We have strong OA’s going into next season which is great but if we have holes, it is better to have open OA spots so you can make more efficient buys.
We have one bonafide top 9 centre. I think Whitehead may be able to hold down the fort on 3C for a competitive team but a Championship team? I dunno.
Misa and Martone are head and shoulders above what the 67’s have going into next year. I know Ivankovic is only 17 next year but he is trending crazy good. His 16 year old numbers are like MacKenzie 18 year old numbers. Their back end is young and that is where they will likely concentrate their efforts on building up but they have FOUR 2nds in 2025. Those picks in the very next draft are like gold for teams rebuilding and selling players. They return virtually their entire roster. Adding a couple d-Men shouldn’t be an issue at all for them, especially with an open OA spot.
I’m not a guy that throws in the towel before the season even starts but that hill will be a tough climb for the returning roster of the 67’s.
Then there is Kingston and Brantford who each have really solid returning rosters, both holding solid draft capital.
If the 67’s want to truly contend next year, they will likely need to use both of their first round picks because they will need at least two top tier players capable of leading the team. One needs to be a centre for sure. The other likely needs to be a first pairing D-Man. Mews and Marrelli may be ready for prime time next year but even if they are, what is behind them is trash. The top two pairings will need to play 50 minutes per game to risk not exposing the poor quality of the 3rd pairing.
The Conference is wide open for the taking this year. To me, if we are going to make a run, it really needs to be this year. Expecting anything different than the picture I am painting for next year is unrealistic.
Keep in mind that is an “IF” we want to make a run, this year makes more sense. It doesn’t mean we have to. Only “IF” we really want to in the near future, this is the year to roll the dice. The next window after this year is likely 2025-26 if we make the right moves at the deadline this year and next.
beastintheeast
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Part of what you say is true it is a conversation. No doubt about it BUT it is not totally out of the picture. Next year we have a nid card at best team. There is, except for maybe Pinelli, no real star power. As OMG stated next year there are going to be at least 2 power teams and possibly 4.
The odds are that that 5th place would be a good finish for this team next year. Unless the hockey gods in the off-season strike some of these guys and say let them be stars, I do not see much change.
That being said, it is a good season to this year, and next to sit back, get an OA center to fill the hole cheaply and let this year pass.
If you are going to do that, then you need to look at bringing in players that will be part of the team next year and getting them some ice time.
If we start this season, then next year, we do not go through the fall getting used to the OHL process for Yanni and Dietsch. Possibly Houten although I am not sure if he is ready. If we trade a goalie, as much as I hate to do it to NAVAN, bring up Nelson.
Then, this fall, Boyd has a further idea of what he needs at the draft besides big, strong centers and can fill the holes.
Again I am not saying that it is going to happen but I am stating that IF IT DID it would not be all that bad.
Oh Yeah, one team that can shock some people next year is Niagara, depending on what Boudreaus advises the owner to do in the off-season, and Junior returns as coach. How many teams do you know that are made up of primarily top 4 round picks.
OMG67
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Beast, I will say one thing, if we come out of the first round next year with no Centres, I am going to be supremely pissed! I know Whitehead was drafted just outside the first round but I hope if we don’t make a run this year that we bottom out just enough to get our hands on a decent sized centre.
NordiquesForeva
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I've been out of the country and haven't had the pleasure of watching the last 4/5 games.
Boyd finds himself in an unenviable position of managing a team that is not a contender this year, isn't expected to be a contender next year, and doesn't have a sufficient foundation to be a contender in 2025-26. Concerningly, the team is not bad enough (or expected to be bad enough) to finish as a #7 or 8 seed (or out of the playoffs) and garner high draft picks in any of those seasons.
What do I think Boyd will do? I think he'll look to move Donoso (provided MacKenzie is healthy), and entertain offers on Stonehouse and Smyth (or Sirman).
There is a logjam on defense and I feel its important to get Dietsch into the lineup and playing regularly for his development. Therefore, I feel like Boyd should look to move on from one of Ewles or Horner as well. Both are expendable, have low ceilings, and wouldn't necessarily be part of a contending team if Ottawa was to somehow make a big development jump next year. It would be bold of Boyd to shop around Mayich in lieu of Smyth (or Sirman), but I am certainly not opposed to it from the perspective of looking at 2024-25 as a retooling year and getting as much value out of our 19-year olds as possible. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. I do, however, think its important to trade away one of Sirman/Smyth and one of Ewles/Horner.
Up front, when everyone returns to health we have another logjam which (imo) makes someone like Kelly expendable. I'd simply like to see Kelly moved from the perspective of providing him with a change of scenery. I think Boyd will fill the currently vacant OA spot regardless, and he could also fill Donoso's vacant OA spot as well which could allow us to trade both Kelly and, say, Barlas, providing a contending team with a good bottom-6 winger. I'd consider that if I were Boyd. I would be very surprised if he moved any of the 18-year olds that will form the team's nucleus next year - Gardiner, Pinelli, Foster. The offer would need to be really strong imo.
In goal, the expected move is to deal Donoso, but what if MacKenzie is dealt instead? The package would fairly strong, and all that would be required would be a commitment to fill the crease with a solid but unspectacular OA next year while Nelson learns the ropes. Again, I'm not opposed to dealing away MacKenzie either.
Boyd has said that it is Ottawa's objective to be competitive every year, so in my view its doubtful he'll deal Mayich or MacKenzie, but I've come around to this year being an opportune time for a sell.
Baseline lineup, post-deadline:
Pinelli - Gardiner - Gerrior
Yanni - Lawrence - Foster
Barlas - OA (trade) - Korbler
Hilton - Whitehead - Houben
INJ: Dever
Mayich - Mews
Marrelli - Brady
Sirman - Dietsch
Horner
MacKenzie
Nelson
Out: Donoso, Stonehouse, Smyth, Ewles, Kelly
In: OA centre
OAs: Lawrence, new centre
Boyd finds himself in an unenviable position of managing a team that is not a contender this year, isn't expected to be a contender next year, and doesn't have a sufficient foundation to be a contender in 2025-26. Concerningly, the team is not bad enough (or expected to be bad enough) to finish as a #7 or 8 seed (or out of the playoffs) and garner high draft picks in any of those seasons.
What do I think Boyd will do? I think he'll look to move Donoso (provided MacKenzie is healthy), and entertain offers on Stonehouse and Smyth (or Sirman).
There is a logjam on defense and I feel its important to get Dietsch into the lineup and playing regularly for his development. Therefore, I feel like Boyd should look to move on from one of Ewles or Horner as well. Both are expendable, have low ceilings, and wouldn't necessarily be part of a contending team if Ottawa was to somehow make a big development jump next year. It would be bold of Boyd to shop around Mayich in lieu of Smyth (or Sirman), but I am certainly not opposed to it from the perspective of looking at 2024-25 as a retooling year and getting as much value out of our 19-year olds as possible. In fact, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. I do, however, think its important to trade away one of Sirman/Smyth and one of Ewles/Horner.
Up front, when everyone returns to health we have another logjam which (imo) makes someone like Kelly expendable. I'd simply like to see Kelly moved from the perspective of providing him with a change of scenery. I think Boyd will fill the currently vacant OA spot regardless, and he could also fill Donoso's vacant OA spot as well which could allow us to trade both Kelly and, say, Barlas, providing a contending team with a good bottom-6 winger. I'd consider that if I were Boyd. I would be very surprised if he moved any of the 18-year olds that will form the team's nucleus next year - Gardiner, Pinelli, Foster. The offer would need to be really strong imo.
In goal, the expected move is to deal Donoso, but what if MacKenzie is dealt instead? The package would fairly strong, and all that would be required would be a commitment to fill the crease with a solid but unspectacular OA next year while Nelson learns the ropes. Again, I'm not opposed to dealing away MacKenzie either.
Boyd has said that it is Ottawa's objective to be competitive every year, so in my view its doubtful he'll deal Mayich or MacKenzie, but I've come around to this year being an opportune time for a sell.
Baseline lineup, post-deadline:
Pinelli - Gardiner - Gerrior
Yanni - Lawrence - Foster
Barlas - OA (trade) - Korbler
Hilton - Whitehead - Houben
INJ: Dever
Mayich - Mews
Marrelli - Brady
Sirman - Dietsch
Horner
MacKenzie
Nelson
Out: Donoso, Stonehouse, Smyth, Ewles, Kelly
In: OA centre
OAs: Lawrence, new centre
OMG67
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I could get behind that. We’d then have to follow it up next year with the discipline of making seller moves again if we are middle of the pack with a couple front runners out of reach.
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