Ottawa 67's 2023-2024 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

[dirty12]

In all fairness, I have stated that I am not sure MacK has value specifically because of injury history. That is why I placed the caveat specifically on it being what Flint wants and values. If they see MacK as not being in the high risk of injury zone, then he does have significant value IF IF IF they have lost faith in Nathan Day. That is the scenario where it makes sense. I didn’t say it made sense from my perspective but that is where the logic would lie from Flint’s perspective.

I also stated it was likely a pipe dream to get Lombardi in that deal. But, if Ottawa wanted a centre, Lombardi would be the only viable option. Kostich would be a better fit from a value perspective. Ottawa could use the RW but still would prefer a Centre.

If Flint likes MacKenzie, why not just trade one of their 7 sets of 3,4,5 picks?
Maybe there’s some reality to a Day-MacKenzie exchange in the form of 3 team trade, or a large Firebirds-‘67s trade where Flint gets something more useful than MacKenzie and Dever. Where would Dever play; the 5’10 lb 175 lb ‘05 was less productive than the ‘06 6’4” 195 lb Kostov.

 

[MJ5]

If Flint likes MacKenzie, why not just trade one of their 7 sets of 3,4,5 picks?
Maybe there’s some reality to a Day-MacKenzie exchange in the form of 3 team trade, or a large Firebirds-‘67s trade where Flint gets something more useful than MacKenzie and Dever. Where would Dever play; the 5’10 lb 175 lb ‘05 was less productive than the ‘06 6’4” 195 lb Kostov.

Dever would clearly be on the 2nd line since we would be trading Lombardi for him.

 

[OMG67]

Dever would clearly be on the 2nd line since we would be trading Lombardi for him.

Keep in mind that if Flint is dealing with Ottawa for MacK, he would be dealing for a starter. Dever would be the 2nd piece. Don’t look at Dever’s stats line too closely. He was moved to centre with about 10 or so games left in the season and played centre in the playoffs. He was 2nd in team scoring in the playoffs ahead of Kressler. He really turned it on as a centre. Impressive. We are looking at him as a 2C this year which is why we were surprised his name came up in a trade rumour. I wouldn’t be surprised if he finished with 15-40-55 this year as the 2C in Ottawa.

Lombardi’s name was put out there as the only viable CENTRE that would make sense for Ottawa IF IF IF they were looking at a replacement centre that was younger. I even suggested that it wasn’t likely that they would probably look more at Kostov as a more viable younger player int hat deal.

But, if it makes any difference, we could wait until the deadline and do a MacK for Zurawski straight up!

 

[MJ5]

Keep in mind that if Flint is dealing with Ottawa for MacK, he would be dealing for a starter. Dever would be the 2nd piece. Don’t look at Dever’s stats line too closely. He was moved to centre with about 10 or so games left in the season and played centre in the playoffs. He was 2nd in team scoring in the playoffs ahead of Kressler. He really turned it on as a centre. Impressive. We are looking at him as a 2C this year which is why we were surprised his name came up in a trade rumour. I wouldn’t be surprised if he finished with 15-40-55 this year as the 2C in Ottawa.

Lombardi’s name was put out there as the only viable CENTRE that would make sense for Ottawa IF IF IF they were looking at a replacement centre that was younger. I even suggested that it wasn’t likely that they would probably look more at Kostov as a more viable younger player int hat deal.

But, if it makes any difference, we could wait until the deadline and do a MacK for Zurawski straight up!

Mackenzie isnt worth what Simpson or Constantini went for, those are 2 cup winning goaltenders, who clearly had proven they could handle the load as the #1.

Might be worth slightly more than Lalonde.

Either way, I want nothing to do with him. Flints D was a mess last year, they were playing some rough kids and trying to patch it together at times.

Day was the reason Flint took Saginaw to 7 games 2 years ago in the first round. Finally taking over for Cranley as the #1 late in the year. He can be very good at times, but like any good goaltender you need some help from your D. Feel like they got the best core in front of him, ready to see him be the #1 and prove it.

 

[frontsfan67]

Mackenzie isnt worth what Simpson or Constantini went for, those are 2 cup winning goaltenders, who clearly had proven they could handle the load as the #1.

Might be worth slightly more than Lalonde.

Either way, I want nothing to do with him. Flints D was a mess last year, they were playing some rough kids and trying to patch it together at times.

Day was the reason Flint took Saginaw to 7 games 2 years ago in the first round. Finally taking over for Cranley as the #1 late in the year. He can be very good at times, but like any good goaltender you need some help from your D. Feel like they got the best core in front of him, ready to see him be the #1 and prove it.

Plus the elephant in the room is mackenzies health. I’m sure some of the picks in a potential trade would be conditionals solely based off that.

 

[OMG67]

Plus the elephant in the room is mackenzies health. I’m sure some of the picks in a potential trade would be conditionals solely based off that.

To me, that is the issue. Mack is arguably a top 3 goalie in this league and is definitely better than Costantini was regardless of winning a Championship. I think Simpson was better or at least a safer bet. Costantini was ok but he wasn’t the reason they won. They won in spite of average or slightly above average goaltending. The team was very strong. I’d rather have a healthy MacK than Leenders. If you could wave a magic wand and say he wouldn’t be playing injured, I’d take him over most anyone. He was poised for a team Canada invite last year but the timing of his injury ensured the invite was pulled.

One of Ottawa’s biggest mistakes was starting Donoso as the older goalie two years ago. Mack was clearly the better backstop but DC favours age so Donoso got the nod in the playoffs. No offence to Donoso but that is just the reality.

That groin injury in mid-November really held him back the rest of the year. I think he rushed back too quick. It is very possible he has been given a clean bill of health with a long layoff with a 4.5 month break since his last game. If the team trading for him is happy with the medical records, I don’t think there is a better “available” goalie out there. In fact, one of the reason why I prefer they trade him is I don’t want him stealing games and them getting a bunch of phantom wins like last year that skewed their true potential. They were 1st place going into December and mostly because of goaltending. If that crap happens again this year, Boyd maybe doesn’t move Pinelli and we end up “OK” going into he playoffs but not strong enough to win a series. And, nothing to gain from keeping Pinelli.

 

[ScoutLife4]

To me, that is the issue. Mack is arguably a top 3 goalie in this league and is definitely better than Costantini was regardless of winning a Championship. I think Simpson was better or at least a safer bet. Costantini was ok but he wasn’t the reason they won. They won in spite of average or slightly above average goaltending. The team was very strong. I’d rather have a healthy MacK than Leenders. If you could wave a magic wand and say he wouldn’t be playing injured, I’d take him over most anyone. He was poised for a team Canada invite last year but the timing of his injury ensured the invite was pulled.

One of Ottawa’s biggest mistakes was starting Donoso as the older goalie two years ago. Mack was clearly the better backstop but DC favours age so Donoso got the nod in the playoffs. No offence to Donoso but that is just the reality.

That groin injury in mid-November really held him back the rest of the year. I think he rushed back too quick. It is very possible he has been given a clean bill of health with a long layoff with a 4.5 month break since his last game. If the team trading for him is happy with the medical records, I don’t think there is a better “available” goalie out there. In fact, one of the reason why I prefer they trade him is I don’t want him stealing games and them getting a bunch of phantom wins like last year that skewed their true potential. They were 1st place going into December and mostly because of goaltending. If that crap happens again this year, Boyd maybe doesn’t move Pinelli and we end up “OK” going into he playoffs but not strong enough to win a series. And, nothing to gain from keeping Pinelli.

Mack is not a top 3 goalie in the Ohl.
I can name at least 5 goalies easily better.

 

[OMG67]

Mack is not a top 3 goalie in the Ohl.
I can name at least 5 goalies easily better.

If that were true, why would he be poised for a Team canada invite last year prior to his injury. That invite wasn’t fully secure but my contacts tell me it had the stamp on it and ready to put in the mail.

I’d say there are seven goalies that would be in consideration for tops in the league this year:
Oster
MacK
George
Leenders
Ivankovic
Parsons
Sztuska

There may be better NHL prospects mixed in that list or off that list but one goalie, one season, I’d want one of those seven. You can discount based on durability and that is fair. That is where MacK falls back 100% which is why I added “HEALTHY” to the assessment.

You give me any of those guys, and I would be happy. If you push a name above those seven, I would likely need you to provide a detailed justification, and it can’t be NHL prospect related. One goalie, one season. Future is meaningless.

Hillenbrandt, Schenkel and Gillespie could crawl out of the woodwork and push for a spot in that group. Probably more so Hillenbrandt considering the quality of Barrie this year. He has a strong chance of putting up some serious numbers but will that be the defence in front of him?

But, overall, health set aside, I like MacK at or near the top of that list. The kid is a game stealer and the team he plays in front of is meaningless. He makes saves.

 

[beastintheeast]

In fact, one of the reason why I prefer they trade him is I don’t want him stealing games and them getting a bunch of phantom wins like last year that skewed their true potential. They were 1st place going into December and mostly because of goaltending. If that crap happens again this year, Boyd maybe doesn’t move Pinelli and we end up “OK” going into he playoffs but not strong enough to win a series. And, nothing to gain from keeping Pinelli.

That is my biggest fear because not only does DC not develop Nelson or Conway BUT he also relegates all the young guns to the bench or the stands and screws away another year of development.

If Nelson is ready for the OHL and Conway is a good backup, then I think Boiyd needs to trade MacK ASAP, even if it is a minimal return, and start the rebuild Now.

 

[OMG67]

That is my biggest fear because not only does DC not develop Nelson or Conway BUT he also relegates all the young guns to the bench or the stands and screws away another year of development.

If Nelson is ready for the OHL and Conway is a good backup, then I think Boiyd needs to trade MacK ASAP, even if it is a minimal return, and start the rebuild Now.

Nelson hasn’t played one single OHL game and some are anointing him the starter. That is rather presumptuous. Conway hasn’t played one single OHL game and he is the backup. I am all for rolling the dice but I cannot argue with a GM And coach that suggests a half year with MacK unless a solid offer is presented makes perfect sense.

My concern isn’t about development. My concern is MacK plays the way he played to start last year prior to the injury and he steals 5 or 6 games again. It skews the results and potentially warps Boyds deadline approach. The kid played 11 games and had 8 with a .920 or better save%. He wasn’t the same after the injury. You could clearly see it. His mobility was f’d. Very unfortunate. The year previous he stole games as a rookie to the tune of 1.88 & .928 over 30 games (over half his games he was above .930) and they weren’t backup bottom feeder games. Donoso was 2.72 & .898 by comparison so it wasn’t the defence that was the separator. It is not like the defence played like shit in front of Donoso and stellar in front of Mack. That is absurd.

 

[beastintheeast]

Nelson hasn’t played one single OHL game and some are anointing him the starter. That is rather presumptuous. Conway hasn’t played one single OHL game and he is the backup. I am all for rolling the dice but I cannot argue with a GM And coach that suggests a half year with MacK unless a solid offer is presented makes perfect sense.

My concern isn’t about development. My concern is MacK plays the way he played to start last year prior to the injury and he steals 5 or 6 games again. It skews the results and potentially warps Boyds deadline approach. The kid played 11 games and had 8 with a .920 or better save%. He wasn’t the same after the injury. You could clearly see it. His mobility was f’d. Very unfortunate. The year previous he stole games as a rookie to the tune of 1.88 & .928 over 30 games (over half his games he was above .930) and they weren’t backup bottom feeder games. Donoso was 2.72 & .898 by comparison so it wasn’t the defence that was the separator. It is not like the defence played like shit in front of Donoso and stellar in front of Mack. That is absurd.

I fully agree and I am not saying give everything to Conwasy and Nelson other than the fact that I worry about your situation and do not trust Boyd and DC,

I think that if Boyd goes for it and DC does not develop the youth then both should be gone at the end of e year no matter the outcome.

 

[beastintheeast]

I think Frankie will be back soon. played against Canuck rookies and loooked really bad.

Netminder Nathan Day keeps it respectable as youthful Oilers outplayed by Canucks in Penticton

Nathan Day keeps it respectable as youthful Oilers outplayed by Canucks in Penticton

edmontonjournal.com

 

[MJ5]

"This game was not as close as its 2-0 scoreline might suggest, and the Oil have netminder Nathan Day and his goalposts to thank that it wasn’t a blowout."

"G Nathan Day #40 – Kept his team in the game early and late with a number of fine stops, and his pipes helped him out as well on about 4 occasions. Finally beaten on an odd-man rush early in the second, stopping the first shot but unable to contain the rebound. Made a pair of terrific stops in rapid succession off Canucks sniper Arshdeep Bains. Made a fine blocker save off a Danila Klimovich rocket from the top of the circle. The 2-0 goal was similar to the first in that a Canuck forward drove to the net front, forced one stop, but got a second crack at the rebound and put it away. Outstanding save to throw himself across the net to fend off a one-timer. Was left to his own devices in the late going as Vancouver continuously caught the Oilers out on the counterattack. Without doubt the star of the show from Edmonton’s perspective, stopping 28 of 30 shots."

 

[ScoutLife4]

If that were true, why would he be poised for a Team canada invite last year prior to his injury. That invite wasn’t fully secure but my contacts tell me it had the stamp on it and ready to put in the mail.

View attachment 906895

I’d say there are seven goalies that would be in consideration for tops in the league this year:
Oster
MacK
George
Leenders
Ivankovic
Parsons
Sztuska

There may be better NHL prospects mixed in that list or off that list but one goalie, one season, I’d want one of those seven. You can discount based on durability and that is fair. That is where MacK falls back 100% which is why I added “HEALTHY” to the assessment.

You give me any of those guys, and I would be happy. If you push a name above those seven, I would likely need you to provide a detailed justification, and it can’t be NHL prospect related. One goalie, one season. Future is meaningless.

Hillenbrandt, Schenkel and Gillespie could crawl out of the woodwork and push for a spot in that group. Probably more so Hillenbrandt considering the quality of Barrie this year. He has a strong chance of putting up some serious numbers but will that be the defence in front of him?

But, overall, health set aside, I like MacK at or near the top of that list. The kid is a game stealer and the team he plays in front of is meaningless. He makes saves.

He's not a better goalie then George, Leenders, Hillebrandt or Oster imo.
Maybe give him 5th if he could stay healthy.

 

[frontsfan67]

If that were true, why would he be poised for a Team canada invite last year prior to his injury. That invite wasn’t fully secure but my contacts tell me it had the stamp on it and ready to put in the mail.

View attachment 906895

I’d say there are seven goalies that would be in consideration for tops in the league this year:
Oster
MacK
George
Leenders
Ivankovic
Parsons
Sztuska

There may be better NHL prospects mixed in that list or off that list but one goalie, one season, I’d want one of those seven. You can discount based on durability and that is fair. That is where MacK falls back 100% which is why I added “HEALTHY” to the assessment.

You give me any of those guys, and I would be happy. If you push a name above those seven, I would likely need you to provide a detailed justification, and it can’t be NHL prospect related. One goalie, one season. Future is meaningless.

Hillenbrandt, Schenkel and Gillespie could crawl out of the woodwork and push for a spot in that group. Probably more so Hillenbrandt considering the quality of Barrie this year. He has a strong chance of putting up some serious numbers but will that be the defence in front of him?

But, overall, health set aside, I like MacK at or near the top of that list. The kid is a game stealer and the team he plays in front of is meaningless. He makes saves.

Oster, Leenders, Ivankovic, George, Sztuska and maybe Hillebrandt over Mackenzie imo regardless of if Mackenzie is healthy or not.

Absolutely 0 shot he is a top 3 goalie in the league. For starters- Leenders, oster, Ivankovic and George are all way better. Sztuska, hillebrandt you could make an argument for but I’d rather have those 2 because I know they’ll be healthy.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Oster, Leenders, Ivankovic, George, Sztuska and maybe Hillebrandt over Mackenzie imo regardless of if Mackenzie is healthy or not.

Absolutely 0 shot he is a top 3 goalie in the league. For starters- Leenders, oster, Ivankovic and George are all way better. Sztuska, hillebrandt you could make an argument for but I’d rather have those 2 because I know they’ll be healthy.

I think top 5 is still generous but Top 3 is a little "disingenuous" imo.

 

[OMG67]

I think top 5 is still generous but Top 3 is a little "disingenuous" imo.

Team canada had his invite in hand last year. None of the goalies mentioned in that list got an invite. I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Team canada had his invite in hand last year. None of the goalies mentioned in that list got an invite. I don’t know what to tell you.

Well for one Hilly is American so why would he play for team Canada?
Ivankovic and Leenders age would have played a part.

 

[OMG67]

Well for one Hilly is American so why would he play for team Canada?
Ivankovic and Leenders age would have played a part.

Agreed but the point is most will look at MacK as the humbled with injury version fo the 2nd half last year where he was a shadow of himself. Others will look at him as the stellar player from 2022-23 season up to his mid-November 2023 injury and feel like he rebounds and stays healthy after a full recovery.

A team looking for a game changing goalie “that is available” will undoubtedly look at MacK. That team will have to feel confident in his health for sure. I’m not as confident as some others may be. A groin injury for a goalie can become a recurring issue. So, yes, there is risk. But if there is a team out there that doesn’t feel comfortable with their goaltending, they can use an OA spot to resolve it.

The fear on my side is MacK stays, wins 5-6 games on his own that the team has no business even being in which is normal when he is healthy, and it skews Boyds approach at the deadline. It makes the team look better than it is. That is what he did last year. He outplayed the older Donoso the year before and put up sick stats. He was about 1.5 games away from qualifying for awards.

I’m not trying to discount other goalies. There are a handful of really good ones. I don’t feel day is one of them. I think it is silly to place him in the top 10. If Flint wants to contend, they will need to look at goaltending. Same with Kingston. Vaccari is a wildcard and Lalonde isn’t a top 10 guy. I doubt either is top 12.

What this boils down to is capability. That list of goalies are all capable. That’s what you need. If you have one that can steal games, that’s great but if you have a solid team, you don’t need a goalie that steals games. You just need one that won’t lose them.

If you have a contending team and you feel your goalie lets the team down by letting in bad goals at bad times, you need to make a change. Average teams with goalies sitting around that .875 save% need to ask themselves if they hav ethe right guy in net when they want to make a push the following season. I think Flint is looking to see if they can upgrade and get someone more secure.

 

[frontsfan67]

If you have a contending team and you feel your goalie lets the team down by letting in bad goals at bad times, you need to make a change. Average teams with goalies sitting around that .875 save% need to ask themselves if they hav ethe right guy in net when they want to make a push the following season. I think Flint is looking to see if they can upgrade and get someone more secure.

We’re not saying they don’t need an upgrade or mack isn’t better than day, however it is pure bias to put him as the 3rd best goalie in the league. Even when healthy it’s pretty generous to put him inside the top 5. Is he better than vaccari and Lalonde? Yes. Has he also had better teams than vaccari for example? Yes. This is why I’d rather have a guy like sztuska and that’s not even touching George, Leenders, Ivankovic Oster or Hillebrandt. Sztuska had a FAR weaker team last year and put up a better save percentage- he wins you games by himself and he stays healthy. Same with the other guys. If Mack is always hurt why would other teams pay a starting goalies price for a goalie who plays half the games?

Imo if Ottawa is trading mack they have to do it before his stats go down on a below average team or he gets hurt. We know how he can do on teams that are 50 win or have good defence, what about on a team like the fronts last year that had weak defence? Guarantee he doesn’t improve those numbers- if anything they drop.

Gonna have to trade him soon. Can’t be patient with that or you get nothing for him when he’s injured again.

 

[dirty12]

Mackenzie had an excellent first six weeks followed by a very unimpressive final five months.
At this time he has to be considered a 1B with a lot of upside for a wannabe contender that has enough picks to simply let him go if unable to prove able to handle the load of a starter.

 

[OMG67]

Mackenzie posted a 3.05 and a .901 with one and a half groins for a 6th place team (shout out to Beast!).

 

[Savard18]

We’re not saying they don’t need an upgrade or mack isn’t better than day, however it is pure bias to put him as the 3rd best goalie in the league. Even when healthy it’s pretty generous to put him inside the top 5. Is he better than vaccari and Lalonde? Yes. Has he also had better teams than vaccari for example? Yes. This is why I’d rather have a guy like sztuska and that’s not even touching George, Leenders, Ivankovic Oster or Hillebrandt. Sztuska had a FAR weaker team last year and put up a better save percentage- he wins you games by himself and he stays healthy. Same with the other guys. If Mack is always hurt why would other teams pay a starting goalies price for a goalie who plays half the games?

Imo if Ottawa is trading mack they have to do it before his stats go down on a below average team or he gets hurt. We know how he can do on teams that are 50 win or have good defence, what about on a team like the fronts last year that had weak defence? Guarantee he doesn’t improve those numbers- if anything they drop.

Gonna have to trade him soon. Can’t be patient with that or you get nothing for him when he’s injured again.

You’ve been looking at Nathan’s stats and not watching him play. Certainly not his playoff play. Ottawa fans should remember Will Cranley. When he was 17 Nathan took the starting job from OA Will Cranley and it wasn’t even close then. It’s now two years later. I don’t know what MacKenzie is currently doing but apparently Nathan is busy stealing the show at an NHL rookies tournament. He’ll be fine if the D in front of him is solid. Flint isn’t going to trade for an OA goalie, move Day then have to Blake Smith or one of Nolan Collins or Evan Konyen who they just traded for. Especially when they’re still holding out hope and hanging onto the rights of Coulson Pitre. For a guy with injury issues?

 

[beastintheeast]

You’ve been looking at Nathan’s stats and not watching him play. Certainly not his playoff play. Ottawa fans should remember Will Cranley. When he was 17 Nathan took the starting job from OA Will Cranley and it wasn’t even close then. It’s now two years later. I don’t know what MacKenzie is currently doing but apparently Nathan is busy stealing the show at an NHL rookies tournament. He’ll be fine if the D in front of him is solid. Flint isn’t going to trade for an OA goalie, move Day then have to Blake Smith or one of Nolan Collins or Evan Konyen who they just traded for. Especially when they’re still holding out hope and hanging onto the rights of Coulson Pitre. For a guy with injury issues?

Not sure who is the better goalie, BUT if Flint thinks he will help, that is their belief. That is all that matters.

The bottom line is if Nelson and Conway are ready for prime time, then we need to move back as soon as we get a realistic offer.

 

[Savard18]

Not sure who is the better goalie, BUT if Flint thinks he will help, that is their belief. That is all that matters.

The bottom line is if Nelson and Conway are ready for prime time, then we need to move back as soon as we get a realistic offer.

I highly doubt Flint thinks that. At least, not for the amount of transactions needed and what it would cost, if at all. It’s not going down. If Nelson and Conway prove ready, there are much more logical places for MacKenzie to land.