Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Season Thread
- Thread starter EON
- Start date
- Status
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
Some interesting discussion regarding strategy. I like it!
The hardest part of running a franchise is strategy. Every move you make impacts the future whether it be positive or negative. However, you can make moves that are positive for both. For example, if you have a capable player that is expendable, meaning the player can be replaced internally at an equal level and that player is younger, you don’t lose anything this year and you gain an asset of some kind from the trading of the expendable asset.
In light of that, do we have expendable assets that we can remove and replace internally? I think we do. The argument would relate to equitability but we do have ten D-Men that are capable of playing OHL hockey somewhere. Can Sirman replace Sawyer if Sawyer leaves? I think so. Is it equitable? I think it is at least close.
The next question is whether you have players with flexibility. Do you have Wingers that can play Centre and vice-versa? In other words, can you give an opportunity to a younger player early in the season by giving them more ice time and responsibility at centre while knowing you have a winger that can be thrust into that role should that younger player not prove capable? I think we do. I know a lot of people are looking at Rohrer as a centre but that is based on circumstance. He is really a winger. He is likely to play wing professionally and if not for the need for him to play centre in Ottawa, he’d be a winger. So, can you play Gardiner at centre on the third line while still acquiring an OA centre? YES. You jsut need to shift Rohrer to the wing. If Gardiner turns out to be capable as a 3rd line centre then you keep Rohrer on the wing and add to the depth on your wing. If none of Gardiner, Barlas or Foster are capable of playing 3rd line centre now, then so be it. You tried and had a Plan B internally That is ready to go immediately without needing to acquire a player.
So, yes, we can acquire an OA Centre. Maybe the result of that is added flexibility throughout the lineup. Bonus!
The younger players are probably better suited to be wingers anyway and then transition into centres when they are more experienced. But, there is nothing stopping the coaching staff form spotting them in and out of centre in a controlled manner. Maybe they play centre against weaker teams?
If the 67’s have an opportunity to acquire Logan Morrison at the start of the season and the cost is 2nd, two 3rd’s, 4th, one of Gardiner, Ewles, or Barlas, then I’d do it. We can afford that deal. My fear is the cost would be two 2nds, two 3rds and Pinelli. I wouldn’t do that.
Beck - Morrison - Rohrer
Pinelli - Tolnai - Boucher
TJ - Gardiner - Stonehouse
Gerrior - Foster - Dever
Quick
***Kelly sent to Tier II
***Barlas traded
***Laforme released
Mayich - Matier
Sirman - Costantini
Smyth - Mews
Marelli - GillShane
***Ewles sent to Tier II
***Sawyer traded
I think that is a solid lineup to commence the year. If none of the young guys can hold down the fort as the third centre then you shift Pinelli to Centre ont he third line and elevate your LW guys up one slot. Each of them is capable of moving up one slot anyway. Gardiner probably moves to 4th RW and Dever battles Foster for the centre role ont he 4th line.
This gives enough flexibility in the roster to cover underperformances as well as injuries while also giving enough responsibility to the younger guys to develop. Injuries will undoubtedly occur so guys will get ice organically.
The hardest part of running a franchise is strategy. Every move you make impacts the future whether it be positive or negative. However, you can make moves that are positive for both. For example, if you have a capable player that is expendable, meaning the player can be replaced internally at an equal level and that player is younger, you don’t lose anything this year and you gain an asset of some kind from the trading of the expendable asset.
In light of that, do we have expendable assets that we can remove and replace internally? I think we do. The argument would relate to equitability but we do have ten D-Men that are capable of playing OHL hockey somewhere. Can Sirman replace Sawyer if Sawyer leaves? I think so. Is it equitable? I think it is at least close.
The next question is whether you have players with flexibility. Do you have Wingers that can play Centre and vice-versa? In other words, can you give an opportunity to a younger player early in the season by giving them more ice time and responsibility at centre while knowing you have a winger that can be thrust into that role should that younger player not prove capable? I think we do. I know a lot of people are looking at Rohrer as a centre but that is based on circumstance. He is really a winger. He is likely to play wing professionally and if not for the need for him to play centre in Ottawa, he’d be a winger. So, can you play Gardiner at centre on the third line while still acquiring an OA centre? YES. You jsut need to shift Rohrer to the wing. If Gardiner turns out to be capable as a 3rd line centre then you keep Rohrer on the wing and add to the depth on your wing. If none of Gardiner, Barlas or Foster are capable of playing 3rd line centre now, then so be it. You tried and had a Plan B internally That is ready to go immediately without needing to acquire a player.
So, yes, we can acquire an OA Centre. Maybe the result of that is added flexibility throughout the lineup. Bonus!
The younger players are probably better suited to be wingers anyway and then transition into centres when they are more experienced. But, there is nothing stopping the coaching staff form spotting them in and out of centre in a controlled manner. Maybe they play centre against weaker teams?
If the 67’s have an opportunity to acquire Logan Morrison at the start of the season and the cost is 2nd, two 3rd’s, 4th, one of Gardiner, Ewles, or Barlas, then I’d do it. We can afford that deal. My fear is the cost would be two 2nds, two 3rds and Pinelli. I wouldn’t do that.
Beck - Morrison - Rohrer
Pinelli - Tolnai - Boucher
TJ - Gardiner - Stonehouse
Gerrior - Foster - Dever
Quick
***Kelly sent to Tier II
***Barlas traded
***Laforme released
Mayich - Matier
Sirman - Costantini
Smyth - Mews
Marelli - GillShane
***Ewles sent to Tier II
***Sawyer traded
I think that is a solid lineup to commence the year. If none of the young guys can hold down the fort as the third centre then you shift Pinelli to Centre ont he third line and elevate your LW guys up one slot. Each of them is capable of moving up one slot anyway. Gardiner probably moves to 4th RW and Dever battles Foster for the centre role ont he 4th line.
This gives enough flexibility in the roster to cover underperformances as well as injuries while also giving enough responsibility to the younger guys to develop. Injuries will undoubtedly occur so guys will get ice organically.
Barrie Colts
barriecolts.com
That would be the max for Morrison? A bit less now that pick trading is capped at four years?
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
Barrie Colts
That would be the max for Morrison? A bit less now that pick trading is capped at four years?
There is a difference between the max he would be traded for and the max ”I” would trade for him. LOL
I think Hamilton would want two 2nds, two 3rds and a top 17 year old (Pinelli). I don’t think they would get it but I think they would hold out to the deadline for that. The only problem with them doing that is they likely have a 4 or 5 really solid OAs and they need to get down to 3. So, they gotta trade someone fast.
I think Ottawa would consider two 2nds, two 3rds and Barlas. I don’t think they would use Pinelli in that deal. So if Hamilton were to be dug in on Pinelli, I think Ottawa would look for a more reasonably priced OA Centre.
Idk, but think the bulldogs would be all over Barlas & 2-2nds if the picks are ‘23 & ‘24
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
I think where I’d be comfortable would be:
Barlas
2nd
3rd
4th
I’d want to keep the extra 2nd for another trade. The 67’s have a couple 2nds in each of the next three drafts I think. So, I think they’d be ok either way.
If the 67’s were able to expand that deal to include Gavin White (DAL unsigned so far) and include Costantini going back to Hamilton, I think it would dramatically change the 67’s roster and fill a couple gaps.
I agree. I am old school and believe you need to have the top backend or close to it in order to go deep and compete for a league championship. With that said, you also need strength down the middle. I was just playing the local kid angle and thought there might be something there. There's probably no deal to be made.
It would be nice if the team strategically took on a change of scenery player once in a while, London just picked up Del Monte - 03C from Barrie for virtually nothing - 21pts in 35 games last year. Barrie needs depth D, hard to believe some sort of deal couldn't have been worked out instead of both teams kicking around draft picks.
beastintheeast
Registered User
- Mar 27, 2013
- 3,888
- 843
Del Monte is not a lock to play in London that was the reason for the low price. Barrie had already tried to trade him to Kingston and it got shot down when they found out he was not going to report.. He is eligible to play in Europe and last heard of was still there.
The fact that Kingston has been involved in 2 trades for centers that would have potentially helped us the latest being Outhwait leaves me thinking that they are staying with what they have and not looking for a center.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
They need to wait until the landscape for OA’s is set. That means NHL Camps need to be complete and players will have been given PTO‘s or contracts. Teams with those players won’t trade until they know who they have and teams like Ottawa wont trade for players that are not 100% playing in the OHL.
Kasper is playing for Rogle BK in the SHL he has 2 assists in his first 2 gamesSo no kasper this season ?
beastintheeast
Registered User
- Mar 27, 2013
- 3,888
- 843
But someone like Outhwait who is not OA and is a center that scored goals would have been interesting to attain.
I agree that the OA market is later but if there are centers that are avail I would think we need to look at getting them. We might have been able to resolve our D issue and get a center in the same deal
Del Monte has a NTC if he was able to to refuse a trade after graduating high school, and very likely has a gold education package too. Barrie would have been limited to trade Del Monte to teams that had an open gold package and would accept the extra cost, and that Del Monte would report to; and, Barrie would have been reluctant to trade Del Monte to any potential contender in the eastern conference. I think those reasons contributed to the low price.
Outwater would give the ‘67s at least four gold packages out of the seven allotted to the 2005-06 born. He would be a good fit for the ‘67s if already building for 2024-25.
Last edited:
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
Outwater is young. I don’t see him as being anything different than Gardiner, Foster, Dever, and Barlas. One could argue that he was an 11th overall pick so he has more value. I would suggest that would be a valid argument. However, the very next pick was Barlas.
The 2021 draft is a little bit of a wildcard because of the Pandemic and the loss of the previous scouting season. So, I would place a lot less confidence in overall draft pick position.
This is why I would suggest that Ottawa already has a selection of players that may be similar to Outwater, at least in age/position. It would be different if Outwater had scored 30+ points as a rookie similar to Pinelli. But, he score 5 more points than Barlas and we are talking about Barlas maybe not even being a part of the 67’s team and being on the trade block.
I guess my overall point in this regard is the 67’s need an experienced centre that can step into the #1 Centre role and log 22+ minutes per game. The profile that fits that need is an Overage that has already demonstrated as a 19 year old to perform at that level.
Delmonte is a 19 year old that hasn’t played a full OHL season and topped out at 4 goals and 21 points last season. Again, I’m not sure that is the profile of player that suits the 67’s. The 67;s should be big game hunting and they need to wait for the big game to become available.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
If the 67’s remain status quo through the entire season, this is what their depth chart would look like next season:
Pinelli - Barlas - Rohrer
TJ (OA) - Gardiner - Stonehouse
Gerrior - Foster - Kelly
Dever - XXX - Quick
Mayich - GillShane (OA)
Smyth - Mews
Marrelli - Ewles
Sirman
Donoso (OA)
MacKenzie
If Rohrer and Pinelli are converted to centre this year then maybe that would change the outlook of the roster a little but it would affect this year’s roster by shifting what are more suitable wingers to the centre position.
Pinelli - Barlas - Rohrer
TJ (OA) - Gardiner - Stonehouse
Gerrior - Foster - Kelly
Dever - XXX - Quick
Mayich - GillShane (OA)
Smyth - Mews
Marrelli - Ewles
Sirman
Donoso (OA)
MacKenzie
If Rohrer and Pinelli are converted to centre this year then maybe that would change the outlook of the roster a little but it would affect this year’s roster by shifting what are more suitable wingers to the centre position.
Not an Outwater fan anymore than I am a Barlas fan, with Pharand, McNamara and Barkey centres all selected after these are just 2 bad picks, if they show something different this year it will be a welcome surprise to Ottawa and Kingston. I sure don't see either as a 1st line centre.
Del Monte is the type of player Ottawa could afford to take a flyer on, the need is high enough, cost was manageable, and IF Barrie would have accepted Sawyer or Gill-shane it would have helped balance things out until that larger move happens. Its a nothing ventured nothing gained scenario, and would have added some maturity to the group returning the following year.
The need at centre is substantive enough that a risk may need to be taken on a player, I don't think it is possible for Ottawa to add too much depth at centre this year, IF they are serious about contending. Hill from Sarnia to Saginaw for 2-4th and an 11th is also another very manageable transaction for an experienced centre, and highlights what appears to be a very buyer friendly market at the moment.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
Del Monte is 19 years old and has proven nothing of any consequence. His trade value proved his true worth which was not very much at all. Sorry but if we are doling out chances to advance, we have at least three 17 year olds I’d much rather give opportunities to than a 19 year old with 7 goals over 84 career games. Barlas is two years younger at least. To me, this would jsut be picks squandered on a temporary measure. We added Johnston last year as an OA for absolutely nothing, a waiver pick up. No reason not to do that again instead. We can jettison out an OA to make room for a better one if necessary deeper into the season.
Last edited:
I really don't think there is a status quo scenario, if they don't make a serious push, they have to trade Beck, Boucher and Matier at the deadline, sitting on them as projected graduating players in a development season would be very bad asset management. I would expect at least one future top line player to be returned and potentially two depending on how things are packaged and what return strategy they use. The Petes and Wolves followed a similar approach last year, the Petes with intent on competing this year, and Sudbury next year and/or potentially the following. It could go either way.
If we try to project something for next year, they will still need a first line centre, Pinelli and Gardiner will be 18 and fit into a 2nd/3rd line centre roll well, Foster fits if they find room for him to develop in the OHL this year. The depth chart on LW looks something like TJ, Gerrior, Barlas, Dever and on RW Rohrer, Stonehouse, Quick and Kelly; add to the group a 1st & 2nd round pick plus an import.
On D Mayich and Sirman should both be in the top 4, Mews, Marrelli and Ewles are likely 3rd pairing guys competing for ice in the top 4. Smyth is interesting as I could see his game going in several directions, he will always have the physical size but a spot in the top 4 would necessitate an improvement in his skating. OA defensemen need to be impactful physically or dominate offensively; Gill-shane would need to improve in one (both) of these areas substantially to fit, a 0G 10A season doesn't cut it.
They got what they paid for with Johnston, the thing we know about the 17 year olds is they aren't ready. This is a league dominated by the 19 year olds with a few 18 year old exceptions. Del Monte may turn out to be no good, I only use him as the example of an opportunity that exist out there. Obviously, London thought enough of his game to give him a shot.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
Agreed but I’m not sure that any of Beck, Boucher, or Matier fall under the category or players of consequence being returned. I think it would be picks. It would be incumbent on Ottawa to turn the picks into players.
The Pete’s had MacT. None of our guys are in that category. Not even close.
Mews as a high first round pick should be considered in the top 4 on D. If he isn’t in the top 4 and quarterbacking the powerplay then it is a bad pick.
To do an analysis, I’d prefer to look at this in categories as opposed to depth chart. Mainly because certain players may be able to fit different positions and that maybe it isn’t such a square peg, round hole as we think. Junior hockey does have a more flexible approach in that regard. So guys like Rohrer and Pinelli may very well adjust to Centre with no issues.
Top Six Forwards:
Rohrer
Pinelli
Stonehouse
Middle Six Forwards:
TJ
Gerrior
The rest of the forwards will have their chance to prove where they fit in next year over the course of this season.
Defence Top Pairing:
Zero
2nd pairing:
Pretty much the rest depending on how this season pans out
So, the way I look at it, we are short four forwards that fit into the top 9 and three of those might be Centres. We may develop internal candidates and I assume at least two of the internal guys will step up but it is unlikely that any of them are front line.
We have a lot of depth returning on the blueline but none of that depth has proven to be top pairing quality. I will say that I would look at Mayich-Mews as being the highest probability of proving that assertion wrong.
I don’t expect Ottawa to sell. I expect them to at least make marginal moves that improve the team this year without affecting next year’s roster. They can add an OA and an Improt at a low cost and maybe upgrade on OA with a Costantini deal as well. I’m sort of thinking that if they make a move for an impact player, they may look more towards an 18 year old that returns next year as opposed to a 19 year old. But, that deal may require MArielle be involved similar to the Petes acquiring Stillman. Either way, I think the depth chart I presented earlier is pretty accurate with the exception that the OA’s included are placeholders. I have Gill-Shane on there instead of Sawyer because he is a Righty and we are deep on Lefties. But, again, a placeholder.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,849
- 8,562
I think London is in a cycle that allows them an opportunity to take a bit of a cheap flier. I think DelMonte would have been a decent option for Ottawa last year. As Dirty mentioned, DelMonte was a high 2nd round pick and likely has a Gold Education package. I would think Ottawa already has their seven packages given out:
1st rounders:
Tolani
Barlas
Matier
Marrelli
Mews
2nd Rounders (top 30 picks):
Stonehouse #26
Pinelli #28
I’d imagine all of these players have Gold Packages. The five 1st rounders would anyway. Beck may have one but I didn’t include him since he was a 2nd rounder picked outside the top 30.
This may be an issue for Ottawa acquiring other players. I’d be interested in finding out which players have Gold Packages and whether Ottawa gives them to 2nd rounders. I know Stonehouse signed late and Moldenhauer didn’t sign so I’m pretty certain he managed to snag one.
Agree with the quality assessment, I don't expect them to sell either but if they aren't going for it, they should. Based on what's returning it isn't going to get better next year on its own.
If the gold packages are what is holding this team up, then it's a hopeless cause. Morrison and most of the OA centres available were first or early seconds.
HockeyPops
Registered User
- Aug 20, 2018
- 7,942
- 7,078
Does an OA still have a gold package attached? I thought once they got to be an OA, there was no more package?
- Status
