Confirmed Signing with Link: [OTT] G Linus Ullmark signs extension with the Ottawa Senators (4 years, $8.25M AAV)

[DackellDuck]

its a catch 22.... youre not a good goalie without a good D in front of you. Why is it we never talk about great goalies on bad teams?

Ullmark isnt taking a 26th (?) place team to contenders overnight. Travis Green, Jake Sanderson and co. will play a much bigger role in that turnaround. And if Green is that good, then sure, Ullmark will have been a good investment.

And you won't have a good D without a good goalie.

Let me put it this way. The Boston Bruins and Ottawa Senators had essentially the same expected goals against, at 5v5, over the course of 82 games last year. Ottawa was at 2.5, Boston was at 2.51.

But according to the numbers:

• Boston's goalies made 33 saves that they *shouldn't have* made
• Ottawa's goalies let in 26 goals that they *shouldn't have* let in

That's a 60 goal swing because of goaltending. Almost a goal per game.

The people who think it was all system clearly never watched many games. Ottawa was absolutely sunk because of their goalies.

The risk for them is whether Ullmark can handle a higher workload, because he has to play 60-65 games, since Forsberg still sucks.

 

[amnesiac]

Yeah Korpisalo looked like a stud last night!!!!

yeah massive sample size, first game of the year vs the Stanley Cup champs.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Goalie contracts make no sense today with the switch to the 1A/1B system. At 50 games a year(career high 49) he's more expensive per game than Connor McDavid. Now factor in that stat line, yikes.


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Pretty silly way to look at it. You could also say that a goalie plays all 60 minutes while a forward plays a little over 20 at most.

 

[DackellDuck]

Pretty silly way to look at it. You could also say that a goalie plays all 60 minutes while a forward plays a little over 20 at most.

At $ per minute, he's cheaper than Cody Ceci!

 

[DueDiligence]

Your response has nothing to do with the thread topic, or my response. Calm down, have some camomile.

Wouldn’t it be prudent to see how he plays in your system?

So using your logic signing free agents is really dumb? I guess the Tanev and OEL signings are crazy then?

 

[amnesiac]

And you're not a good D without a good goalie.

Let me put it this way. The Boston Bruins and Ottawa Senators had essentially the same expected goals against, at 5v5, over the course of 82 games last year. Ottawa was at 2.5, Boston was at 2.51.

But according to the numbers:

• Boston's goalies made 33 saves that they *shouldn't have* made
• Ottawa's goalies let in 26 goals that they *shouldn't have* let in

That's a 60 goal swing because of goaltending. Almost a goal per game.

not true at all....

Youre telling me all the goalies under the likes of: Jacques Lemaire, Hitchcock, Trotz, Montgomery, etc were all great goalies???

off the top of my head:

Pascale Leclaire CLB (had like 10 SO that one year)
Manny Fernandez and Dwayne Roloson MIN
Dan Ellis and Chris Mason NSH
Steve Mason CLB (won Clader)
Brian Elliott, Jake Allen, Jaro Halak STL
Ben Bishop and Khudobin DAL
Darcy Kuemper COL
Adin Hill and Logan THompson VGK

So yes, great goalie stats come from great coaching and sytems much more than their sheer skill.

 

[DackellDuck]

not true at all....

Youre telling me all the goalies under the likes of: Jacques Lemaire, Hitchcock, Trotz, Montgomery, etc were all great goalies???

off the top of my head:

Pascale Leclaire CLB (had like 10 SO that one year)
Manny Fernandez and Dwayne Roloson MIN
Dan Ellis and Chris Mason NSH
Steve Mason CLB (won Clader)
Brian Elliott, Jake Allen, Jaro Halak STL
Ben Bishop and Khudobin DAL
Darcy Kuemper COL
Adin Hill and Logan THompson VGK

Did you just pick a few examples from the last 20 years and ignore the rest of the post about last season lol?

But okay, now how many cups or conference finals did those guys get to? And how many have Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, Vasilevskyi, Shesterkin, Fleury, etc, gotten to?

Goaltending matters, as much as it ever did.

You may have a 1-year run with a guy like Hill. But if you have a guy like Shesterkin or Vasilevskyi? You'll be there way more often.

Let me put it this way, if Sam Montembeault doesn't get better, or if they don't find a guy who can be better, it won't matter what kind of defense the Habs build. They won't win anything. They'll experience what Ottawa experience over the last 3 years. Lots of talent squandered by backbreaking goals against.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

If you're going to pay a goalie big money this is the way to go.

 

[Jozay]

Interesting deal. Probably paid a premium cap wise to keep the term short, which is pretty smart

 

[Budz]

So using your logic signing free agents is really dumb? I guess the Tanev and OEL signings are crazy then?

You are master goal post mover.

He’s already there! What’s the risk of waiting?

 

[DackellDuck]

You are master goal post mover.

He’s already there! What’s the risk of waiting?

That the price goes up even more?

The Leafs could have signed Nylander for 9.5M last September. It ended up costing the 11.5M because he went nuts for 30 games to start the season.

It goes both ways. If you wait you could mitigate the risk that he plays poorly. But if he's putting up Vezina type numbers? He could then ask for 7 years at 9.25 instead of 4 years at 8.25.

 

[Budz]

That the price goes up even more?

The Leafs could have signed Nylander for 9.5M last September. It ended up costing the 11.5 because he went nuts for 30 games to start the season.

I will just assume they are worried about Igor resetting the market.

 

[Chainshot]

Good for Ottawa.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Even if Ullmark drops off from the Vezina caliber goalie he was in Boston, just how much are people expecting him to drop off? He'd go from a top 5 goalie in the league to an above average starter then. How terrible.

Are people expecting a Jim Carey situation here or something?

 

[amnesiac]

Did you just pick a few examples from the last 20 years and ignore the rest of the post about last season lol?

But okay, now how many cups or conference finals did those guys get to? And how many have Roy, Brodeur, Belfour, Vasilevskyi, Shesterkin, Fleury, etc, gotten to?

Goaltending matters, as much as it ever did.

You may have a 1-year run with a guy like Hill. But if you have a guy like Shesterkin or Vasilevskyi? You'll be there way more often.

Let me put it this way, if Sam Montembeault doesn't get better, or if they don't find a guy who can be better, it won't matter what kind of defense the Habs build. They won't win anything. They'll experience what Ottawa experience over the last 3 years. Lots of talent squandered by backbreaking goals against.

A few examples? I just showed you a ton of examples of goalies that had great seasons based solely on great coaching and D, and have more or less sucked outside of it. Thats the whole point here.

ie. Ullmark's great numbers in Boston was mainly due to coaching/systems. He was far from being considered a top goalie beforehand in Buffalo. Not horrible, but sure as hell not great.

For the past decade Ottawa have only proven to have a bad defence (and coaching) where goalies constantly look awful. Unless Travis Green is some defensive genius, Ullmark will be back to who he was, possibly worse.

Not a coincidence with the: Talbot, Gus, and Korpisalo examples too in the past few seasons.

It is what it is. You better hope that Green is that guy.

 

[bert]

yeah massive sample size, first game of the year vs the Stanley Cup champs.

Lol let in softies early. Like always but yeah no sample size on korpisalo. Reality is a really hard thing for Habs fans to come to grips with this year eh.

A few examples? I just showed you a ton of examples of goalies that had great seasons based solely on great coaching and D, and have more or less sucked outside of it. Thats the whole point here.

ie. Ullmark's great numbers in Boston was mainly due to coaching/systems. He was far from being considered a top goalie beforehand in Buffalo. Not horrible, but sure as hell not great.

For the past decade Ottawa have only proven to have a bad defence (and coaching) where goalies constantly look awful. Unless Travis Green is some defensive genius, Ullmark will be back to who he was, possibly worse.

Not a coincidence with the: Talbot, Gus, and Korpisalo examples too.

It is what it is. You better hope that Green is that guy.

How much wishful thinking can you jam into one post.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I probably would’ve wanted to see how things went for a bit before making this kind of commitment. But has a good track records elsewhere can see why you’d make the gamble

 

[I Hate Philadelphia]

Korpisalo is not good, we all know this.

Bruins had to unload Ullmark for whatever they could get as he had one year left on his deal, and not many teams were going to be pay $8mil/yr for a guy who ALWAYS pisses his pants in the playoffs.

Bruins were not going to have two $8mil goalies on the team, this isn't hard to understand.

 

[amnesiac]

Lol let in softies early. Like always but yeah no sample size on korpisalo. Reality is a really hard thing for Habs fans to come to grips with this year eh.


How much wishful thinking can you jam into one post.

ugh, not surprised..... another brainless poster who responds with "lol" and "you Habs fans..."

another freakin 13 year old here with zero hockey knowledge who immediately changes the subject to "make fun" of another team.

 

[DackellDuck]

A few examples? I just showed you a ton of examples of goalies that had great seasons based solely on great coaching and D, and have more or less sucked outside of it. Thats the whole point here.

ie. Ullmark's great numbers in Boston was mainly due to coaching/systems. He was far from being considered a top goalie beforehand in Buffalo. Not horrible, but sure as hell not great.

For the past decade Ottawa have only proven to have a bad defence (and coaching) where goalies constantly look awful. Unless Travis Green is some defensive genius, Ullmark will be back to who he was, possibly worse.

Not a coincidence with the: Talbot, Gus, and Korpisalo examples too in the past few seasons.

It is what it is. You better hope that Green is that guy.

You're misremembering.

After his career in Buffalo, Boston signed him as a UFA to a 5x5M AAV contract. So they obviously thought, even in 2020 based on his sample size with the Sabres, that he could be the starter and chose him as the heir apparent to Rask. And they paid him like it.

Now as it turns out, Swayman burst onto the scene as well, but the idea that he was some guy who came out of nowhere in Boston because of their system is asinine.

They gave him big money and term coming out of Buffalo to do exactly what he did.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Ulmark making 3.25 mill more than Joey D'Accord lol

 

[fahad203]

Solid terms

 

[amnesiac]

How much wishful thinking can you jam into one post.

I know it a lot for your brain to grasp.... its called constructive criticism with acutal data to back it up.

But continue with your "lol" and "haha your teams sucks" from your mom's basement.

You're misremembering.

After his career in Buffalo, Boston signed him as a UFA to a 5x5M AAV contract. So they obviously thought, even in 2020, that he could be the starter and chose him as the heir apparent to Rask. And they paid him like it.

Now as it turns out, Swayman burst onto the scene as well, but the idea that he was some guy who came out of nowhere in Boston because of their system is asinine.

They gave him big money and term coming out of Buffalo to do exactly what he did.

Difference is Boston knew they had a great system. Ottawa do not.

I never said Ullmark was a bad goalie.... Im saying Ottawa's coaching/system will make him look bad. They paid a lot to fix something that isnt the acutal MAIN problem. If they fix the coaching/system, then sure, Ullmark will surely be worth it. But until then, hes going to be a very overpaid goalie.

Time will tell with Green.

 

[DackellDuck]

never said Ullmark was a bad goalie.... Im saying Ottawa's coaching/system will make him look bad. They paid a lot to fix something that isnt the acutal MAIN problem. If they fix the coaching, then sure, Ullmark will surely be worth it.

Well now you're flip flopping. You said "Ullmark's great numbers in Boston was mainly due to coaching/systems. He was far from being considered a top goalie beforehand in Buffalo. Not horrible, but sure as hell not great."

So how did he get a 5x5M contract from Boston?

Is it because he had top end numbers in Buffalo (i.e. a .915+ SV%)? Maybe!

And as I said in another post (that you conveniently ignored), Ottawa's expected goals against at 5v5 (2.5) last year was the same as Boston's (2.51).

But Boston's goalies made 33 saves that they *shouldn't have* made, and Ottawa's goalies let in 26 goals that they *shouldn't have* let in.

A 60 goal swing because of goaltending, not "systems".

You obviously didn't watch many games if you think coaching was why Korpisalo and Forsberg routinely let in floaters from the blueline. They looked bad because they were bad, not because of anything else.

 

[HaNotsri]

Hutton showed a lot of promise with Nashville but was complete rubbish with the Sabres. Kind of similar to Ville Leino. Good with Philly. Croaked with the Sabres. IIRC, Ullmark was going through some family issues when he was in Buffalo with his father being sick? Unless I'm thinking of Lehner

Ullmark had the issues but still played great. Hutton had problems with his vision during the time with sabres. Many excuse Adams for thinking that the eyesight was the problem.

Lehner was drunk and depressed and didn't save a single penalty. Still better than Hutton.