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Confirmed Signing with Link: [OTT] G Linus Ullmark signs extension with the Ottawa Senators (4 years, $8.25M AAV)

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JS19 said:
ANd somehow you think that's comparable to Linus Ullmark's situation, despite every single analytic saying you're wrong.

You keep banging the point about le system, and the conveniently ignore that Ottawa and Boston's defense weren't all that different. You cast doubt on Ullmark's ability to perform, and never once addressed that he played for the SABRES. You can't get any worse than them.
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and Im saying thats BS.... pull out any analytics you want, theyre not ALWAYS accurate believe it or not.

eg. Goals Saved Above Expected has proven to be an inconsistent stat already. Both goalies on BOS, FLA, and LA were all top 15 in that "statistic". You think that has nothing to do with the system and team they play for?
 
amnesiac said:
and Im saying thats BS.... pull out any analytics you want, theyre not ALWAYS accurate believe it or not.

eg. Goals Saved Above Expected has proven to be an inconsistent stat already. Both goalies on BOS, FLA, and LA were all top 15 in that "statistic". You think that has nothing to do with the system and team they play for?
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How many times did you watch Ottawa and Boston play, excluding when they played Montreal?

It's amazing how confident you are telling Senators fans that what they saw with their own eyes over an 82 game season, and what's backed up by metrics, is not actually what happened...

Look, maybe I'm wrong about Ullmark and he was good because of Boston. I'll admit I only say ~10 of their games last year.

But I will tell you that I'm not wrong about what happened in Ottawa last year. If Ullmark sucks, it'll be on him, just like it was on Korpisalo. It won't be because of Ottawa's coach or whatever.
 
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DackellDuck said:
Swayman's contract will expire when he's 35.
Ullmark's contract will expire when he's 35.

But again, age is irrelevant if Boston goalies are only good because of Montgomery and the system. Bussi is as young as Swayman. They could have just kept him, right?

Why give any system goalie 8M, even a 28 year old one?
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to a certain degree, you are correct. COL and VGK won with mediocre goaltending, did they not? COL signed Kuemper for just 2 years. It does work. (just not a 3rd string goalie as you suggest)

Yes there is a difference between throwing money at a proven goalie and a completely unproven one. And theres a reason why Boston were so reluctant in giving Swayman that much, but they decided they rather spend the money now to save later ($8.25M wont be so bad in 4+ years), and not have to stress about it. THat said, if Montgomery gets fired, I wouldnt be surprised to see Swayman's numbers drop.
 
RogerRogerr said:
Sure, but if he plays well, he has no reason to sign during the season and he might as well just wait and choose his destination.
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Sure, but if he plays poorly, or the defense in front of him doesn't allow him to perform well yet they are stuck with a major deficiency and limited room to wiggle out.

I guess you could always try and reshape the defense. But this is a winning move for a team that hasn't really showed they can play a winning style yet.

I don't think it's a bad risk regardless. I think it's a pretty large risk though.
 
DackellDuck said:
How many times did you watch Ottawa and Boston play, excluding when they played Montreal?

It's amazing how confident you are telling Senators fans that what they saw with their own eyes over an 82 game season, and what's backed up by metrics, is not actually what happened...
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its always easy to blame goaltending..... again, when it happens for what, 7+ years amongst many different goaltenders, its probably time to blame something else.
 
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amnesiac said:
to a certain degree, you are correct. COL and VGK won with mediocre goaltending, did they not? COL signed Kuemper for just 2 years. It does work. (just not a 3rd string goalie as you suggest)

Yes there is a difference between throwing money at a proven goalie and a completely unproven one. And theres a reason why Boston were so reluctant in giving Swayman that much, but they decided they rather spend the money now to save later ($8.25M wont be so bad in 4+ years).
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Colorado won with Kuemper. He had consistently put up several .910 SV%+ seasons before going there, and they traded a top prospect + 1st rounder to get him.

That's not what you trade for a "whatever" goalie. They traded a haul because they thought he was a top goalie, and he provided them with a .921 SV% and cup win.

He wasn't someone they grabbed off waivers.

I'll give you Hill, though.
 
JS19 said:
ANd somehow you think that's comparable to Linus Ullmark's situation, despite every single analytic saying you're wrong.

You keep banging the point about le system, and the conveniently ignore that Ottawa and Boston's defense weren't all that different. You cast doubt on Ullmark's ability to perform, and never once addressed that he played for the SABRES. You can't get any worse than them.
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lets talk in a few months here.
 
amnesiac said:
its always easy to blame goaltending..... again, when it happens for what, 7+ years amongst many different goaltenders, its probably time to blame something else.
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Goaltending was never a problem for Ottawa when we had Anderson. Many coaches during his stay here too.
 
amnesiac said:
its always easy to blame goaltending..... again, when it happens for what, 7+ years amongst many different goaltenders, its probably time to blame something else.
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Again, nuance.

When the Senators were losing with an 18 year old Tkachuk and a roster of AHLers because they had just started a rebuild... that was a little different than what happened last year.

Forsberg put up a .917 SV% a couple years ago. Was the system good that year, and then just got bad again after?
 
DackellDuck said:
Colorado won with Kuemper. He had consistently put up several .910 SV%+ seasons before going there, and they traded a top prospect + 1st rounder to get him.

That's not what you trade for a "whatever" goalie. They traded a haul because they thought he was a top goalie, and he provided them with a .921 SV% and cup win.

He wasn't someone they grabbed off waivers.

I'll give you Hill, though.
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Kuemper had a 900 SV% in the playoffs when they won the Cup. Point is, their system won them the Cup, and not Kuemper. Boston has the kind of winning system, but dont have the offense that COL or VGK has (had).

I dont think Ottawa has either right now.

umma gumma said:
Goaltending was never a problem for Ottawa when we had Anderson. Many coaches during his stay here too.
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Sens have had bad defensive/goaltending stats since 17-18.
 
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DackellDuck said:
Again, nuance.

When the Senators were losing with an 18 year old Tkachuk and a roster of AHLers because they had just started a rebuild... that was a little different than what happened last year.

Forsberg put up a .917 SV% a couple years ago. Was the system good that year, and then just got bad again after?
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something like that. Was that not the bubble year? cant really make too much of those stats for obvious reasons, especially the Canadian teams.

DackellDuck said:
They didn't have bad defensive stats last year, but you've dismissed that as too "subjective".
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correct
 
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Bjornar Moxnes said:
Except Hutton didn't show much promise with either Nashville or St. Louis (Two top defensive teams btw).
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Coming in after Renne went out injured in '13-'14 and putting up a 20–11–4 record. What a bum. Then putting up a 17-7-3 record and 2.09GAA in his final year with the Blues. No hope at all.

By contrast he never got below a 3.00GAA in Buffalo and had that dreadful 1-10-1 season in his final year there.
 
amnesiac said:
something like that. Was that not the bubble year? cant really make too much of those stats for obvious reasons, especially the Canadian teams.


correct
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I think we can agree to disagree at this point.

But we'll see if you're right... maybe Korpisalo will have a .920SV% in Boston and Ullmark will suck in Ottawa. Based on last night, it doesn't seem likely for Korpi, so we'll see how Ottawa does tomorrow.

I'll leave you with this. Carey Price was never a good goalie. It was always the system. When the Habs retire #31 you should go to the game and boo him for being the fraud that he is.
 
:laugh: Couldnt wait until the 20 game mark to see if theres a hope in hell of making the post season?
 
DackellDuck said:
I think we can agree to disagree at this point.

But we'll see if you're right... maybe Korpisalo will have a .920SV% in Boston and Ullmark will suck in Ottawa. Based on last night, it doesn't seem likely for Korpi, so we'll see how Ottawa does tomorrow.

I'll leave you with this. Carey Price was never a good goalie. It was always the system. When the Habs retire #31 you should go to the game and boo him for being the fraud that he is.
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Price is Price. Lundqvist is Lundqvist. Ullmark is nowhere near them.

That said, Price's best years were under Therrien who was their most defensive coach during his career. Not a coincidence..... He was acutally a little inconsistent outside of Therrien because of how bad the Habs were.

Im not afraid to admit that. I call it as it is.

anyway... Good luck this year, hope they can turn it around. I always had a soft spot for the Sens as I lived in Ottawa from 98-2000. f***in Leafs.
 
amnesiac said:
Price is Price. Lundqvist is Lundqvist. Ullmark is nowhere near them.

That said, Price's best years were under Therrien who was their most defensive coach during his career. Not a coincidence..... He was acutally a little inconsistent outside of Therrien because of how bad the Habs were.

Im not afraid to admit that. I call it as it is.
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Fun fact, Ullmark has the same number of Vezinas as Price.

Now I’m really done. Good day to you!
 
DackellDuck said:
Fans on July 2nd: "Why the hell didn't we sign anyone, this GM sucks."
Fans on October 2nd


Fun fact, Ullmark has the same number of Vezinas as Price.

Now I’m really done. Good day to you!
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Fun fact, Bobrovsky has more Vezinas than Lundqvist AND Price. Whats your point exactly?

If you want to put Ullmark in their boat go right ahead. I wouldnt say it openly, though.
 
DackellDuck said:
I love how the same people who were saying that Korpisalo would all of a sudden look good in "Boston's system" will say this is a bad deal.

Ullmark will continue to be a .910+ SV% guy in Ottawa.
Korpisalo will continue to be a sieve in Boston, as we saw last night.

Also a perfect length. Would you prefer it to be $7.5M? Yes, but it's Ottawa. It costs more to get guys signed here.



How did Korpisalo look in that system last night?
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Yea, I don't get these system goalie comments. People are aware Ullmark was great on the dogshit team in Buffalo right? He didn't just show up out of nowhere in Boston
 
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