Confirmed Signing with Link: [OTT] Brady Tkachuk re-signs with Senators (7 years, $8.205714M AAV)

Korpse

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It’s not arbitrary, there just simply has never been this much money given out for so little production.

The guys you quoted were playing 12-14mins their 1st years :laugh:

It’s a terrible contract at this point based on ALL comparables in basically NHL history

You've set all kinds of arbitrary parameters during your feeble attempt to make a point.

On my godness. Tkachuk produced 0.8% less than kessel with 3% more ice time. You've made an excellent point here.
 
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nbwingsfan

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You've set all kinds of arbitrary parameters during your feeble attempt to make a point.

On my godness. Tkachuk produced 0.8% less than kessel with 3% more ice time. You've made an excellent point here.
Kessel score 30 goals and 60pts in 70 games right before he signed his contract and STILL didn’t get as much as Tkachuk.

You can keep trying to find comparable (poorly, I might add). But this this is the most money any player has been given off their ELC for so little production. That’s a fact.
 

Korpse

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Kessel score 30 goals and 60pts in 70 games right before he signed his contract and STILL didn’t get as much as Tkachuk.

You can keep trying to find comparable (poorly, I might add). But this this is the most money any player has been given off their ELC for so little production. That’s a fact.

And he had a combined 30 goals and 66 points in the the 152 games prior. Kessel signed a 5 year deal at 9.51% of the cap surely two extra years would have come at a greater cost. As already established their production over the course of their first three seasons are comparable as are their contracts. There are so many example though none, of them are worth mentioning as the slightest change in a variable is grasped at as if it were a worlds difference.

Kessel’s third season is the reason why his contract is justified but Seguin’s third season with 32 points in 48 stands the test because he had 67 in the year prior, almost as if contracts aren’t based on one specific season.
 
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BurgoShark

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It should not come as a surprise to anyone that Ottawa paid a little higher $$$ for a young player coming out of his RFA. This is their MO. White, Chabot, Batherson, now Tkachuk.

Pay them at 21-23. In the early years they may be overpaid (in AAv) but if they meet their potential they will be a bargain by the end of it.

Also - no bonuses. This means that if they in fact do not meet that potential before they can be bought for 1/3 of the remaining contract out before their 26th birthday and the owing bonuses don't sting the team.

Colin White is the best example. He is a useful NHLer, but the team gambled $28.5m on him becoming much more than that - HOWEVER - they didn't actually gamble $28.5m. What they did was gamble $12.75m (what he would receive before turning 26) plus 1/3 of the other $15.75m... at a time when cap hit was meaningless to the team. If Colin White had become has good as they had hoped, they've got a good second line centre for a bargain cap hit. If he (likely now) doesn't, they can choose to buy him out for $5.25m with a negligible cap hit (less than $900k) spread over 6 seasons. It's a win for White because he will have made $18m for playing 3 years, and he will move on and get a cheap deal elsewhere - but the buyout doesn't hamstring the team's cap flexibility.

Ditto for all of these deals - not that anyone expects any of the other three players will be bought out.
- White buyout of final 3 years at 25 costs $5.25m and the highest single season cap hit is $875k
- Batherson buyout final 4 years at 25 costs $7.9m and the highest single season cap hit is $993k
- Tkachuk buyout of final 4 years at 25 costs $8.6m and the highest single season cap hit is $2.65m
- Chabot buyout of final 6 years at 25 costs $17.8m and the highest single season cap hit is $2.69m

Knowing the cost of a buyout, even if the player doesn't meet their potential you have a line in the sand on retention. i.e. Colin White is probably tradable with retention this summer, but it would make very little sense for Ottawa to move him if they had to retain more than $5m across the final 3 years, or take back another contract worth more than $5m. You'd just admit that you struck out on this one, cut a cheque, and move on. The can't all be home runs.

Regardless of how fans from the outside may think the AAv/$$ values are higher than what the market should have paid, Ottawa is cleverly covering their own a$$es for cap management in the event that these contracts don't pan out. In a league where most GMs are playing cap gymnastics, milking LTIR or signing guys to contracts that they know some other mug in the GM chair is going to have to deal with in 5+ years, Ottawa are actually structuring contracts to be team friendly while also paying the players good money... yet for some reason hockey fans criticise them for it - most likely just because it is different to how other teams are operating so therefore "different = bad".
 
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devbouz12

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Kessel score 30 goals and 60pts in 70 games right before he signed his contract and STILL didn’t get as much as Tkachuk.

You can keep trying to find comparable (poorly, I might add). But this this is the most money any player has been given off their ELC for so little production. That’s a fact.
That is indeed a fact. Us sens fans are utterly heartbroken. You win! We lose. Wings are the best team ever. Sens are a joke. Worst contract in the history of life. Let me know if I missed anything.
 

nbwingsfan

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And he had a combined 30 goals and 66 points in the the 152 games prior. Kessel signed a 5 year deal at 9.51% of the cap surely two extra years would have come at a greater cost. As already established their production over the course of their first three seasons are comparable as are their contracts. There are so many example though none, of them are worth mentioning as the slightest change in a variable is grasped at as if it were a worlds difference.

Kessel’s third season is the reason why his contract is justified but Seguin’s third season with 32 points in 48 stands the test because he had 67 in the year prior, almost as if contracts aren’t based on one specific season.
No, Kessel and Seguin had already proven quality 1st line potential numbers. Tkachuk Aja’s only proven he can barely even pace for 50pts with potential.

For the 6th time… this is the most money ever given for so little production coming off an ELC.
 

nbwingsfan

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That is indeed a fact. Us sens fans are utterly heartbroken. You win! We lose. Wings are the best team ever. Sens are a joke. Worst contract in the history of life. Let me know if I missed anything.
Nope, you pretty much nailed it.
 

Korpse

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No, Kessel and Seguin had already proven quality 1st line potential numbers. Tkachuk Aja’s only proven he can barely even pace for 50pts with potential.

For the 6th time… this is the most money ever given for so little production coming off an ELC.

And again, your arbitrary parameters aren’t a convincing argument.
 

nbwingsfan

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And again, your arbitrary parameters aren’t a convincing argument.
When you can’t give a single example of a player who can barely pace for 50pts that got this amount of money, it says all it needs to say. He’s paid higher than every single comparable you can try and find, and those comparables had shown elite production potential. Tkachuk has not done so.

You can keep burying your head in the sand, but you’d better hope Tkachuk greatly improves his production or else the Sens just got taken to the woodshed.
 

Korpse

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When you can’t give a single example of a player who can barely pace for 50pts that got this amount of money, it says all it needs to say. He’s paid higher than every single comparable you can try and find.

You can keep burying your head in the sand, but you’d better hope Tkachuk greatly improves his production or else the Sens just got taken to the woodshed.

You understand what arbitrary means right?
 

nbwingsfan

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You understand what arbitrary means right?
I asked you to find someone who has produced less who got more money. Should be very simple to do if this isn’t a bad contract.

You can’t do it, so it says it all.

Maybe your 50pt player will lead you to a Cup for once, but that’s very unlikely.
 

KevinRedkey

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I asked you to find someone who has produced less who got more money. Should be very simple to do if this isn’t a bad contract.

You can’t do it, so it says it all.

Maybe your 50pt player will lead you to a Cup for once, but that’s very unlikely.

July 1, 2006
Pavel Kubina
Career high: 38 points
Signed for: 11.36% (9.258 in today's money)

There you go... but we all know you're going to change the goal posts regardless. lol
 

SpezDispenser

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Maybe your 50pt player will lead you to a Cup for once, but that’s very unlikely.

That's precisely the player we want leading our team into the playoffs and hopefully to the Cup. Not a soft as baby shit player, a tough as nails, forechecking demon who will disrupt opponents and probably be a 30 goal/200 hit guy in the not so distant future.
 

TeamRenzo

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Kessel score 30 goals and 60pts in 70 games right before he signed his contract and STILL didn’t get as much as Tkachuk.

You can keep trying to find comparable (poorly, I might add). But this this is the most money any player has been given off their ELC for so little production. That’s a fact.

I haven't looked it up but I will assume you are correct; what is your point? The Sens over paid Brady? The fans don't care, mgmt doesn't care and I doubt his team mates cares so why do you?
 

nbwingsfan

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July 1, 2006
Pavel Kubina
Career high: 38 points
Signed for: 11.36% (9.258 in today's money)

There you go... but we all know you're going to change the goal posts regardless. lol
Hahahaha I’ve already said forward. Congratulations on finding a defenseman. A great comparable ! Also not coming off an ELC, so you probably couldn’t be more off if you tried. Please try and follow the conversation next time.
 

nbwingsfan

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I haven't looked it up but I will assume you are correct; what is your point? The Sens over paid Brady? The fans don't care, mgmt doesn't care and I doubt his team mates cares so why do you?
Of course fans don’t care. They’re biased and you guys need hope. Doesn’t change it’s a very bad contract right now
 

KevinRedkey

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Hahahaha I’ve already said forward. Congratulations on finding a defenseman. A great comparable ! Also not coming off an ELC, so you probably couldn’t be more off if you tried. Please try and follow the conversation next time.

Following what you have to say seems like a huge waste of anyone's time.
 

nbwingsfan

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Following what you have to say seems like a huge waste of anyone's time.
Because you guys no there is no example of a forward being paid so much for so little done? Yeah it’s a waste trying to look… it doesn’t exist
 

nbwingsfan

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Define bad. How come you ignored my direct question? Why do you care so much?
I don’t. I asked a question and people keep replying with answers that dont make sense so i just reply to those. Asking for someone with less production and more money doesn’t mean show me players with more production and less money. Sens fans can’t seem to grasp that for some reason
 

KevinRedkey

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Because you guys no there is no example of a forward being paid so much for so little done? Yeah it’s a waste trying to look… it doesn’t exist

I can play your game too...

Find me a player (besides Brady) that's top 5 in both hits and shots in their first 3 years in the NHL, and gets paid less than Brady.

You can't because it doesn't exist. Just like your stupid narrow parameters.
 

nbwingsfan

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I can play your game too...

Find me a player (besides Brady) that's top 5 in both hits and shots in their first 3 years in the NHL, and gets paid less than Brady.

You can't because it doesn't exist. Just like your stupid narrow parameters.
Hits and shots! Wow! Pay the man!

When the NHL starts awarding wins for hits and shots you may have a point. Shooting the puck a lot means nothing if it doesn’t lead to goals. Hitting a lot can be found for about $2M a year.

Also it’s not “narrow” what so ever. Do you know how manyplayers have had a career high of around 50pts (pace) coming off their ELC (answer: it’s a lot). Zero have gotten over ~10% of their teams cap. You guys overpaid. There’s absolutely no way of arguing otherwise.
 
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KevinRedkey

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Hits and shots! Wow! Pay the man!

When the NHL starts awarding wins for hits and shots you may have a point. Shooting the puck a lot means nothing if it doesn’t lead to goals. Hitting a lot can be found for about $2M a year.

1. The NHL doesn't award wins for anything other than outscoring your oppnent. Not really sure where you're coming from with that one.

2. Shots do equal goals (usually). An example of that would be Brady having a career pace of 25 goals per 82 which is better than Mitch Marner

3. If hitting that much is worth 2.000 are you suggesting Brady is getting 6.200 if he doesn't hit as much? lol

4. What's being top 5 in shots worth? lol
 

devbouz12

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I don’t. I asked a question and people keep replying with answers that dont make sense so i just reply to those. Asking for someone with less production and more money doesn’t mean show me players with more production and less money. Sens fans can’t seem to grasp that for some reason
What's your end game here? He's a unique player that brings a skillset that is hard to quantify. Sure they overpaid by 1.5 - 2mil rn but the team is obv also paying for potential. It could also be argued that Ottawa overpaid out of necessity (no bonuses, we suck tax etc).

I've never been irritated by a signing (especially when it doesn't even involve my team) to the point where I have to berate and ridicule every poster who thinks differently. Very odd behaviour.
 

nbwingsfan

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1. The NHL doesn't award wins for anything other than outscoring your oppnent. Not really sure where you're coming from with that one.

2. Shots do equal goals (usually). An example of that would be Brady having a career pace of 25 goals per 82 which is better than Mitch Marner

3. If hitting that much is worth 2.000 are you suggesting Brady is getting 6.200 if he doesn't hit as much? lol

4. What's being top 5 in shots worth? lol
For around 50pts, yeah around $6.2M is about the going rate. You guys overpaid by about $1.5-$2M going off comparables.
 

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