OT: Other Sports: Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies, etc...Part VI

[Hasbro]

Dennis Green getting conservative in that NFC championship game along with Gary Anderson lost them that game. They would have beaten the Donkeys I believe.

Out consrtevativing Dan Reeves takes some ****ing doing!

 

[John Mandalorian]

Passing yards against is a feeble argument. The Broncos had big leads so much that year. Of course teams were going to resort to the passing game a lot that year. So this is skewed.

Again, it’s a massive leap to look at how the Broncos boat raced the Falcons in the SB and conclude that the team that lost to the Falcons while at home could have magically measured up.

The Broncos decisively defeated three top five defenses in the playoffs.

There are so many crackpots living out in the woods that Broncos fans have to put up with. No the 98 Vikings weren’t better and wouldn’t have won. And no Jake Plummer wasn’t some great QB and an innocent victim. Just go make some granola and spare everyone your lunacy.

 

[Hasbro]

Passing yards against is a feeble argument. The Broncos had big leads so much that year. Of course teams were going to resort to the passing game a lot that year. So this is skewed.

In addition having good special teams will make your defensive yardage totals worse, since the opponent is dealing with longer fields. Elam and Rouen were both Pro Bowlers that year.

And getting out couched by Dan Reeves…

 

[henchman21]

Both @Hasbro and @John Mandalorian make it sound like Minnesota didn't play with a lead all year either... despite still having a top 10 point differential of all time... and they gave up only 17 passing TD including 4th quarters and garbage games. The mental gymnastics trying to make it sound like the Broncos had a good pass defense that season is hilarious. The Broncos had an excellent and well balanced offense that could chew clock due to the running game. That was their key to success and it won them a Super Bowl.

 

[Hasbro]

Both @Hasbro and @John Mandalorian make it sound like Minnesota didn't play with a lead all year either... despite still having a top 10 point differential of all time... and they gave up only 17 passing TD including 4th quarters and garbage games. The mental gymnastics trying to make it sound like the Broncos had a good pass defense that season is hilarious. The Broncos had an excellent and well balanced offense that could chew clock due to the running game. That was their key to success and it won them a Super Bowl.

And all those teams able to pass with ease managed to beat the Broncos in one meaningful game all year. Were they not passing enough?

 

[henchman21]

And all those teams able to pass with ease managed to beat the Broncos in one meaningful game all year. Were they not passing enough?

And Minnesota lost one meaningful game all season too.

The idea that the Broncos, with a clearly weak passing defense, would roll one of the best passing offenses (and offense in general) of all time is bizarre to me. That Vikings team was insanely good and they just picked the worst time to have their worse game of the season. A lot went wrong for them to lose that game. If they win, the Super Bowl would have been a heavyweight bout. A game were the key would be the Broncos controlling the clock and keeping the ball away from Minnesota.

 

[Hasbro]

And Minnesota lost one meaningful game all season too.

The idea that the Broncos, with a clearly weak passing defense, would roll one of the best passing offenses (and offense in general) of all time is bizarre to me. That Vikings team was insanely good and they just picked the worst time to have their worse game of the season. A lot went wrong for them to lose that game. If they win, the Super Bowl would have been a heavyweight bout. A game were the key would be the Broncos controlling the clock and keeping the ball away from Minnesota.

Two actually.

You think Green would have been better up to the task in the Super Bowl? Shanny out coached Reeves thoroughly in that game and by passing the ball too! Reeves dared Elway to beat him and we saw how that turned out.

 

[henchman21]

Two actually.

You think Green would have been better up to the task in the Super Bowl? Shanny out coached Reeves thoroughly in that game and by passing the ball too! Reeves dared Elway to beat him and we saw how that turned out.

I wouldn't consider the Tampa game in the middle of the season all that meaningful. Especially if you're excluding a Broncos loss too.

I think Minnesota was simply a much worse matchup for the Broncos. Atlanta had one of the best rushing defenses in the league that season, it made tons of sense to pass the ball against them. We see it all the time in playoff matchups, especially when we're talking single elimination... matchups matter and sometimes better teams lose.

 

[Hasbro]

I wouldn't consider the Tampa game in the middle of the season all that meaningful. Especially if you're excluding a Broncos loss too.

I think Minnesota was simply a much worse matchup for the Broncos. Atlanta had one of the best rushing defenses in the league that season, it made tons of sense to pass the ball against them. We see it all the time in playoff matchups, especially when we're talking single elimination... matchups matter and sometimes better teams lose.

A division opponent that would have made the playoffs if not for that loss, and that's before anything was clinched. The Vikes were also trying to win that game, big difference than the Miami game where the Broncos lost the shot at going undefeated and ran vanilla schemes so as not to tip their hand.

 

[henchman21]

A division opponent that would have made the playoffs if not for that loss, and that's before anything was clinched. The Vikes were also trying to win that game, big difference than the Miami game where the Broncos lost the shot at going undefeated and ran vanilla schemes so as not to tip their hand.

You're jumping through hoops here... both teams lost two games.

 

[Hasbro]

You're jumping through hoops here... both teams lost two games.

Because context is meaningless.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Its questionable whether the 98 Broncos even had a meaningful loss considering they wrapped up HFA with their week 13 win over the Chiefs.

These what if arguments for Minnesota are dumb. They couldnt even handle a run dominant Atlanta team at home. The Denver Broncos were an even better run dominant team than the Falcons.

The results stand on their own. 3>2>1. This bad matchup argument falls on its face.

 

[henchman21]

Because context is meaningless.

You're refusing all context on Minnesota and the matchup.

Its questionable whether the 98 Broncos even had a meaningful loss considering they wrapped up HFA with their week 13 win over the Chiefs.

These what if arguments for Minnesota are dumb. They couldnt even handle a run dominant Atlanta team at home. The Denver Broncos were an even better run dominant team than the Falcons.

The results stand on their own. 3>2>1. This bad matchup argument falls on its face. It's a dumb argiment.

Sure... a team that gave up the 2nd most passing touchdowns in 1998 is going to shutdown arguably the best passing attack in NFL history to that point.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Sure... a team that gave up the 2nd most passing touchdowns in 1998 is going to shutdown arguably the best passing attack in NFL history to that point.

This has already been shoved back in your face. Just repeating this over and over is hamster wheeling.

 

[henchman21]

This has already been shoved back in your face. Just repeating this over and over is hamster wheeling.

It would be one thing if the Broncos were say 8-12 in the league... not near the very bottom of the league. And blanket excluding 25% of the game is nonsense. It is like saying George is an amazing goalie if you exclude all the games he gives up 4+ goals in.

 

[ANewHope]

I don't care if you think the Vikings would have won but acting like it's crazy to think the Broncos would win is hilarious. They destroyed great teams in the playoffs. Didn't Miami have the top D that year? Almost dropped 40 on them.

I don't feel like checking but didn't the Jets also have a great passing offense that year? I wanna say top 10 for sure if not higher. Obviously nowhere near the Vikings but still pretty close to elite and they scored 10 points with zero passing TDs. I'm pretty sure the Broncos only gave up like 1-2 passing TDs that entire 3 game run. They still had a great defence. Just hard for me to see them losing with how dominant they were. Elway/Davis going back to back just felt like it wasn't going to be stopped. Davis in those playoff runs had one of the highest peaks in NFL history.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

I know you bozos are mostly Broncos fans, but I am curious to hear your takes on Louis Rees-Zammit at the Chiefs. As a Welshman, I enjoyed watching his explosive speed and agility as he played a big part of the Wales National Rugby Team over the past few years. So I am interested to see how he adapts to the NFL. Do you think he makes the cut this year? Or at all?

What are your thoughts in general of rugby players taking on the NFL?

 

[henchman21]

I don't care if you think the Vikings would have won but acting like it's crazy to think the Broncos would win is hilarious. They destroyed great teams in the playoffs. Didn't Miami have the top D that year? Almost dropped 40 on them.

I don't feel like checking but didn't the Jets also have a great passing offense that year? I wanna say top 10 for sure if not higher. Obviously nowhere near the Vikings but still pretty close to elite and they scored 10 points with zero passing TDs. I'm pretty sure the Broncos only gave up like 1-2 passing TDs that entire 3 game run. They still had a great defence. Just hard for me to see them losing with how dominant they were. Elway/Davis going back to back just felt like it wasn't going to be stopped. Davis in those playoff runs had one of the highest peaks in NFL history.

FTR I have not said a single time that it is crazy to think the Broncos would win. I have said Minnesota wouldn't have gotten rolled. I even said it would have been a heavyweight matchup. It would have been a great game of strengths vs weaknesses.

 

[ANewHope]

FTR I have not said a single time that it is crazy to think the Broncos would win. I have said Minnesota wouldn't have gotten rolled. I even said it would have been a heavyweight matchup. It would have been a great game of strengths vs weaknesses.

That's fair. I didn't read the entire conversation so that's my bad lol

I think the Broncos would be the favorites and ultimately end up winning but I don't think they destroy the Vikings like they did the other teams. Elway/Davis just weren't being stopped IMO. It's hard to play the what if game with teams who go back to back and were that dominant over a 2 year stretch.

 

[John Mandalorian]

That's fair. I didn't read the entire conversation so that's my bad lol

I think the Broncos would be the favorites and ultimately end up winning but I don't think they destroy the Vikings like they did the other teams. Elway/Davis just weren't being stopped IMO. It's hard to play the what if game with teams who go back to back and were that dominant over a 2 year stretch.

Sorry but the NFL at that time was about balance and controlling the line of scrimmage. Back then, if you control the line of scrimmage (barring some fluke) and you control the game. Green Bay in 97 had a better defensive line than 98 Minnesota. We all know what happened there. 97 Green Bay also had a better QB.

Controlling the line of scrimmage was the schwerpunkt in the NFL at that time. Why do you think Jimmy Johnson, when inheriting Dan Marino tried to make the Dolphins more running game assertive like the Broncos or his Dallas teams. Sorry but life on the serrangeti at that time wasnt going to be favorable to Minnesota. Again, if they couldnt hold up to the Falcons, who were an inferior version of the Broncos, they were f***ed against the dominant lion at that time.

Theres nothing to suggest the Vikings wouldnt have been boat raced also. Theres a truism in football: any time you pass the ball, three things can happen and two of them are bad. And keep in mind this is the 90s before Goodell made running the ball irrelevant.

The most likely outcome in this hypothetical game is that the Broncos shrink the clock by controlling the line of scrimmage while moving the ball up and down the field. Minnesota has some big plays but just as many costly turnovers that lead to Denver points.

FWIW, the absurd impetus for this conversation, which includes over-inflating the significance of one stat by one person, is no better than looking at who Minnesota lost to that year. Both of Minnesotas losses were to teams that ran the ball less than 500 times. This implies that the Vikings were vulnerable to teams that could run the ball and shrink the clock and generate turnovers. The Broncos were a superior version of that.

But now, let me thought vomit the significance of passing the ball less than 500 times in 1998 while also scoring 500 pts.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

What are your thoughts in general of rugby players taking on the NFL?

everyone I know who plays rugby always has a strange sense of moral superiority that rugby requires more athleticism than football. I don't know and don't especially care but the NFL's product could badly use a shot in the arm and if this guy provides it, great

 

[expatriatedtexan]

As a guy that mostly follows football by occasionally reading this thread... Do teams actually have running games anymore? I thought the days of Earl Campbell and Erik Dickerson trucking 10 defensive players on the way to a 75 yard gain were over.

 

[Jeff_Dyck_#1]

 

[henchman21]

I love the absurdity of US college football kicking off in Ireland.

 

[Bonzai12]

everyone I know who plays rugby always has a strange sense of moral superiority that rugby requires more athleticism than football. I don't know and don't especially care but the NFL's product could badly use a shot in the arm and if this guy provides it, great

Played both in high school - rugby required better conditioning in my case