Opinion on Flyers

[blinds]

People are still harping on the Richards and Carter trade? I still don't understand what them winning a cup with LA has to do with anything. They weren't winning a cup here, we didn't have guys like Kopitar, Doughty and Quick and the rest to surround them with. The returns we got for them were for our long-term future, and hey look, they're better than the players they were traded for now.

It's amazing how many arguments come down to "but they won a cup!" on here. As if that's the only way to judge a trade. Flyers would do those trades 10/10 times. Our window closed when Pronger went down, not when we traded those two.

Also, Bobby Clarke is a goon? Hextall nothing but a goon? Can we close this ridiculous thread? Apparently all it is is to bash the Flyers. Nothing constructive in here.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Ah yes, the usual complete ignorance of the Flyers' situation when the trades went down.

The Flyers didn't trade Richards and Carter for the hell of it. The Flyers were in a dire situation after going all-in to make a push for a Cup. They needed to upgrade their goalie, and they needed to fill several roster spots as well. They did not have enough cap space to do that. On top of that, there were no cheap prospects at all and they didn't even have their first rounder that year. All of this with zero cap space. It was abundantly clear the Flyers' Cup window was closed, and that some major roster changes were inevitable just to keep the team afloat. Richards and Carter had more value than any other player, so they traded them and built around Giroux. I repeat, the Cup window was shut. It was done. Keeping Richards and Carter would have done nothing at all to re-open it. If they keep Richards and Carter, the team is easily in worse position today. They made 2 players into 6 players, and even then that barely was enough to fill out the roster; if Couturier doesn't make the jump at 18 years old they would've needed to resort to piling trash into a roster spot.

I lived near Philly that year so I know exactly what was going on since it was all over the news and since I worked in the practice rink in Vorhees. Try again.

 

[Primary Assist*]

lol no. Hextall did not cost them anything. the Flyers were a one line team in the mid-late 90s. shut the Legion of Doom down and the team was done. Hextall was an extremely skilled goalie that suffered through a slew of bad injuries that slowed him down later in his career.

No, OF COURSE he didn't cost them a Stanley Cup in the '90's; they just felt obligated for NO PARTICULAR REASON WHATSOEVER to throw big bucks at sign free agent John Vanbiesbrouck before the '98-'99 season.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The bold is so incorrect it isnt even funny. Quick played like crap last year. Brown was not better than Carter last year and isnt a better player than Carter, at all. Carter had one less point than Williams, but had 1 more goal than him with 10, which was second on the team to only to Gaborik who had 14 in the playoffs.

2011 - 12 Carter was tied for most goals on the team in the playoffs with Brown and Kopitar with each of them having put up 8 goals. He was a major piece that turned that team into what it has become.

Carter put up 33 goals and 61 points in the regular season in 74 games in 2009-10 for the Flyers and in the playoffs he only played 12 games and put up 5 goals and 7 points.

Oh, and lets look at this year, Carter is out playing the hell out of Brown, again.

On to Richards, he played an important role on the kings team in 2011-2012. He also scored his goals and put up points in the playoffs as well.

They didnt win the cup on the coattails of other players, and Carter was certainly better than Brown.

Sorry bud, youre wrong.

You can basically ignore everything Jtown says about Richards and Carter, he has spent the last few years doing everything he can to diminish them to help make the Flyers look better.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

People are still harping on the Richards and Carter trade? I still don't understand what them winning a cup with LA has to do with anything. They weren't winning a cup here, we didn't have guys like Kopitar, Doughty and Quick and the rest to surround them with. The returns we got for them were for our long-term future, and hey look, they're better than the players they were traded for now.

It's amazing how many arguments come down to "but they won a cup!" on here. As if that's the only way to judge a trade. Flyers would do those trades 10/10 times. Our window closed when Pronger went down, not when we traded those two.

Also, Bobby Clarke is a goon? Hextall nothing but a goon? Can we close this ridiculous thread? Apparently all it is is to bash the Flyers. Nothing constructive in here.

The Flyers do have a history of stupid trades though

 

[Cult of Hynes]

You can basically ignore everything Jtown says about Richards and Carter, he has spent the last few years doing everything he can to diminish them to help make the Flyers look better.

[mod] Thanks for the heads up though man!

 

[Beef Invictus]

I lived near Philly that year so I know exactly what was going on since it was all over the news and since I worked in the practice rink in Vorhees. Try again.

Then why are you acting like keeping Richards and Carter would've led to anything but collapse?

Hartnell, Carle, Timonen, Briere wouldn't have returned value anywhere close to those two. Keep Richards and Carter and trade others, and the issues aren't addressed.

 

[blinds]

The bold is so incorrect it isnt even funny. Quick played like crap last year. Brown was not better than Carter last year and isnt a better player than Carter, at all. Carter had one less point than Williams, but had 1 more goal than him with 10, which was second on the team to only to Gaborik who had 14 in the playoffs.

2011 - 12 Carter was tied for most goals on the team in the playoffs with Brown and Kopitar with each of them having put up 8 goals. He was a major piece that turned that team into what it has become.

Carter put up 33 goals and 61 points in the regular season in 74 games in 2009-10 for the Flyers and in the playoffs he only played 12 games and put up 5 goals and 7 points.

Oh, and lets look at this year, Carter is out playing the hell out of Brown, again.

On to Richards, he played an important role on the kings team in 2011-2012. He also scored his goals and put up points in the playoffs as well.

They didnt win the cup on the coattails of other players, and Carter was certainly better than Brown.

Sorry bud, youre wrong.

That's great for the Kings, what does this have to do with the Flyers though? Richards and Carter weren't the difference between being cup contenders and not, so we chose to trade them to start a rebuild. The trades are paying off for us long term, and they paid off for the Kings short term. Sorry to the Blue Jackets who got swindled.

It's clearly a win-win trade for the Flyers and Kings.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Weird thread. If Clarke is a goon, he's the only goon in the HOF.

Fire Berube. The rest have made a mix of excellent and poor decisions, like everyone else with any resume in the league really. Its also hard to tell which poor decisions were largely driven by Ed Snyder.

 

[satbank]

They need some D. Got no issue scoring though.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

That's great for the Kings, what does this have to do with the Flyers though? Richards and Carter weren't the difference between being cup contenders and not, so we chose to trade them to start a rebuild. The trades are paying off for us long term, and they paid off for the Kings short term. Sorry to the Blue Jackets who got swindled.

It's clearly a win-win trade for the Flyers and Kings.

Unless the Flyers win multiple cups with the guys they traded Richards for, it seems more like a win for the Kings so far. Just like the Lindros trade was a win for what they got in return for Lindros. IDK how you can say its paying off in the long term when you have no clue how everything will work out.

 

[Striiker]

What we have here is a thread started by someone who doesn't know what he's talking about, being commented on by fans of other teams who don't know enough about the Flyers to what they're talking about, and it's leading to arguments that will go nowhere because Flyers fans will have to explain things over and over and nobody will care enough to listen.

How do I know this? Because these same things have been explained a million times and people still somehow ignore what's been explained to them and repeat the same incorrect things.

As for the main point, Clarke was not a goon, Holmgren was not a goon, Hextall was not a goon, and Berube was a goon and will be gone at the end of the year. If you think that the first three being a part of this organization will stop the team from becoming contenders then you have no clue what you're talking about. If you want to bash the Flyers at least make a little sense.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Weird thread. If Clarke is a goon, he's the only goon in the HOF.

Fire Berube. The rest have made a mix of excellent and poor decisions, like everyone else with any resume in the league really. Its also hard to tell which poor decisions were largely driven by Ed Snyder.

Well, IDK if goon was the right term, but he was extremely dirty, same with Messier, Howe, Lindsay, Shore etc. Shore was a goon, he is in the HOF.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't think style of play necessary means that you will make a good, or bad, hockey mangement person, be it coach, GM, whatever.

That said, I have seen fans of the Flyers on this board, including some that I think a lot of, talk about a need to change some of the ideas about 'Flyer hockey' (ie guys like Rinaldo, etc. I suppose) to be more successful and to win a cup. I have no clue if that is true or not, obviously. But maybe that sort of thing is what the OP is trying to get to, in a very not artful way of saying what some Flyer fans have been saying for a while?

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Holmgren Made two of the ballsiest and smartest trades that few if any gm's would have the guts to make.

Jeff carter for the NHL points leader and Sean Couturier
Mike Richards ( currently available on waivers) For wayne Simmonds and Brayden Schenn.

Imagine the current flyers without those two trades.

Both Richards and Carter were important in LA's cup runs. So maybe recent Cup Champions?

 

[ponder719]

Both Richards and Carter were important in LA's cup runs. So maybe recent Cup Champions?

Because, of course, the Flyers had a goaltender as capable as Jonathan Quick, and defensemen as capable as Drew Doughty, after Chris Pronger was no longer able to play hockey. Yeah, I'm sure that's how it would have worked out for us.

But maybe that sort of thing is what the OP is trying to get to, in a very not artful way of saying what some Flyer fans have been saying for a while?

You're giving OP way too much credit, here.

 

[Curufinwe]

People are still harping on the Richards and Carter trade? I still don't understand what them winning a cup with LA has to do with anything. They weren't winning a cup here, we didn't have guys like Kopitar, Doughty and Quick and the rest to surround them with. The returns we got for them were for our long-term future, and hey look, they're better than the players they were traded for now.

It's amazing how many arguments come down to "but they won a cup!" on here. As if that's the only way to judge a trade. Flyers would do those trades 10/10 times. Our window closed when Pronger went down, not when we traded those two.

St Louis really regrets trading Rob Ramage for Brett Hull since the Flames won a Cup with Ramage.

 

[Curufinwe]

I see Flyers fans forgot to mention that Carter and Richards helped the Kings win 2 cups. Especially Carter.

It's interesting that Flyers fans are so "sensitive". I didn't think that was in their DNA. I guess when you hint that the goons they put in charge are dumb, they get offended. I'm sure there are some very smart, NHL tough guys. The Flyers just don't have any of them in the front office which is why the team isn't any good.

Hextall is as smart as any executive in the league.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I think the Flyers would have benefited from hiring more people outside of ex Flyer players to run the team. I'm not saying that every hire of an ex Flyer is nepotism but you are missing out on some strong managerial talent when you just restrict the search to ex players.
I also think an outsider who has trained in another team's system can bring valuable insight into how the Flyers' system and team could be improved.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

We're done.