Opinion on Flyers

[AndHeMissedTheNet]

Yea, their defense isnt atrocious or anything. They havent given some terrible dmen some ludicrous contracts either.

Oh i'm not denying that their defense in it's current state isn't a trainwreck, but given the defensive prospects that they DO have, i doubt it'd be possible to form a solid defense without giving quality FAs long, expensive contracts that would take future playing time away from Morin, Sanheim, and Gostisbehere.

I ain't even mad about this when i think long-term.

 

[Jray42]

Re: stupid goons. Stu Grimson, Attorney-at-Law. Law degree from the University of Memphis Law School.

I rest my case, Your Honour.

Re: stupid goons:

George Parros, Princeton University graduate with a degree in Economics. Sporting News' 4th smartest athlete in 2010.

 

[Dod93Cityt]

Did I say they traded him to the Kings? nope. Dont jump to conclusions. I know he was traded to the Jackets, but it was dumb for the Flyers to let him go. He clearly is an impact player having helped a team win 2 cups in 3 years.

Maybe you're not aware that the Flyers also got players coming back in that trade? Name Voracek and Couturier, with Cousins.

Tell us again how we shouldve kept Carter.

btw I know they were draft picks

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Maybe you're not aware that the Flyers also got players coming back in that trade? Name Voracek and Couturier, with Cousins.

Tell us again how we shouldve kept Carter.

btw I know they were draft picks

And maybe you arent aware of where the Flyers are in the standings?

 

[JinzoBlaze]

And maybe you arent aware of where the Flyers are in the standings?

Jeff Carter would've single handedly pulled us out of the basement. He is a great #1 defenseman.

 

[StoneHands]

Maybe you're not aware that the Flyers also got players coming back in that trade? Name Voracek and Couturier, with Cousins.

Tell us again how we shouldve kept Carter.

btw I know they were draft picks

I think everyone needs to just stop talking this this guy, he just doesn't get it. I'm sure in his mind we should have never let Carcillo go since he went on to win a cup the next year.

I can't even imagine how bad the Flyers would be if Richards and carter were on the team.

Raffl - Giroux - Read
Umberger - Carter - Vinny
Bellemare - Richards - VandeVelde
Rinaldo - Laughton - Akeson

Man, that's brutal.

 

[Jtown]

Didnt those two play a big part in the team reaching the cup finals and being competitive as hell? What did those two wind up doing when they went to the kings? oh yea, win two cups. please, youre the definition of naive.

1 did RIchards. Carter was horrible that year.

They won two cups off the coattails of superior players. QUick doughty kopi williams brown are the core of those playoff teams bud. Carter and ricahrds were nice complimentary players not on the same page the nhl's point leader and simmonds and schenn. That trade is about as 1 sided as it gets

 

[Primary Assist*]

Seems more like it's a thread created with the sole intent of starting a dispute to me.

What's disputatious about it? They're ALL ex-Flyers, and except for Clarke, were all goons in their playing days. Someone should explain to tunnel-visioned owner Ed Snider that once in a while it's wise to hire front office people from different organizations, that have a different philosophy and point of view.

 

[mja]

I'm just having a fun debate with Flyers fans. What would be your feelings if this was your front office


President Paul Holmgren
General Manager Ron Hextall
Senior Vice President Bob Clarke
Head coach Craig Berube


My point to Flyers fans was all 4 of those guys were goons and aren't the brightest tools in the shed. I wouldn't want those people running anything for the team I supported. To me, being effective in a front office position with a sports team requires creativity, intelligence, patience and an understanding how the game is won at the current moment. I don't see any of those guys having those traits.

They have some company, apparently.

My initial thought is that our front office could beat the **** out of your front office. The next thought I have is that you aren't the sharpest candle on the cake. Bobby Clarke was a creative, intelligent, and patient player. He was also a fierce competitor, but he won Hart trophies because he thought the game at a higher level than the overwhelming majority of his peers. Gretzky's office used to be Clarke's, after all. As a GM, he was either GM during or had a big hand in three different organizations making the finals 5 different times - Minnesota, Florida, & Philly.

Ron Hextall was psychotic, not stupid. He was also a great goaltender in his prime and is given a lot of credit in LA for his work with the front office there.

Paul Holmgren was good at punching people in the face. He was also a decent hockey player that has a 30 goal season to his credit. He was a deeply flawed GM, but built a team that went to OT of Game 6 in the Stanley Cup finals a mere three years after he inherited the worst team in the league. He also had a ridiculous eye for forward talent. He was hit or miss on contracts, inking both some of the best and some of the worst contracts in the league.

Chief is the only one of these guys who was a goon. He's been a good soldier for the organization for years. He's also a terrible head coach playing out the string before Hextall goes out and gets 'his' guy.

[mod]

 

[mja]

What's disputatious about it? They're ALL ex-Flyers, and except for Clarke, were all goons in their playing days. Someone should explain to tunnel-visioned owner Ed Snider that once in a while it's wise to hire front office people from different organizations, that have a different philosophy and point of view.

Ron Hextall, the only goon goaltender in NHL history, apparently. It's not like he won a Vezina or a Conn-Smythe or anything.

 

[flyershockey]

What's disputatious about it? They're ALL ex-Flyers, and except for Clarke, were all goons in their playing days. Someone should explain to tunnel-visioned owner Ed Snider that once in a while it's wise to hire front office people from different organizations, that have a different philosophy and point of view.

Hextall gooned his way to a Vezina and Conn Smythe.

 

[BernieParent]

Pretty much, but I think the forwards could use work. Not one is having a good year.

Mason has been really good though.

My sarcasm detector isn't registering any activity here, so ...

 

[HighOFFHockey]

This thread is dumb. However, I agree that I don't want Berube as Coach and looking back, keeping Lavy would have been the right move. While Lavy didn't adjust to a bad defense well, he was a great possession/systems coach. Those are Berube's biggest weaknesses. He's very good at being strict and keeping conditioning high, but he can't get the team to play together.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I don't know enough of each of these guys and their off ice abilities, but in general I think I'd prefer more diversity in experience there.

 

[Primary Assist*]

Ron Hextall, the only goon goaltender in NHL history, apparently. It's not like he won a Vezina or a Conn-Smythe or anything.

His Vezina and Conn Smythe trophies were won for the '86-'87 season ONLY. After 1987, Hextall won NOTHING as a goaltender. During the Lindros era in the mid '90's, he cost them at least one Stanley Cup, maybe two ('95 & '96).

 

[bauer]

His Vezina and Conn Smythe trophies were won for the '86-'87 season ONLY. After 1987, Hextall won NOTHING as a goaltender. During the Lindros era in the mid '90's, he cost them at least one Stanley Cup, maybe two ('95 & '96).

lol no. Hextall did not cost them anything. the Flyers were a one line team in the mid-late 90s. shut the Legion of Doom down and the team was done. Hextall was an extremely skilled goalie that suffered through a slew of bad injuries that slowed him down later in his career.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Ron Hextall, the only goon goaltender in NHL history, apparently. It's not like he won a Vezina or a Conn-Smythe or anything.

At any rate... to the extent that any goaltender can possibly be a goon- Hextall, arguably the most- well- willingly combative goaltender of his generation, approaches the description most closely. And yes- all due credit for Hextall's rare losing-effort Conn Smythe- he was on his way to being something really special until those serial groin-injuries turned him into a flopper-hybrid.

This is red-herring stuff, though. What really matters to this thread is: what will Hextall's legacy as a GM turn out to be? Publicly, he's preaching patience- which will be needed in tanker-carloads, given the current state of affairs. It's said that the true undercurrent behind-the-scenes is between the elements of the front-office who wish to practice, as well as preach- patience, and owner Ed Snider- of whom it is said he wants to win one more Cup before he assumes ambient-air-temperature. [This also possibly explains a few of the future-mortgaging moves the Flyers had made in recent times.]

How many years will it require for Philly to enter into legitimate Cup contention? I'd say four, minimum- and THAT's assuming that they can somehow luck into a McEichel selection later this year.

 

[Jack Straw]

I'm just having a fun debate with Flyers fans. What would be your feelings if this was your front office


President Paul Holmgren
General Manager Ron Hextall
Senior Vice President Bob Clarke
Head coach Craig Berube


My point to Flyers fans was all 4 of those guys were goons and aren't the brightest tools in the shed. I wouldn't want those people running anything for the team I supported. To me, being effective in a front office position with a sports team requires creativity, intelligence, patience and an understanding how the game is won at the current moment. I don't see any of those guys having those traits.

Calling Bobby Clarke a "goon" costs you any credibility you might have had. 3x Hart Trophy winner, held the NHL record for assists by a center until Gretzky came along, fantastic hockey IQ. I'll take a "goon" like that on my team any day. And so would any GM in the league today.

 

[BernieParent]

I think everyone needs to just stop talking this this guy, he just doesn't get it. I'm sure in his mind we should have never let Carcillo go since he went on to win a cup the next year.

I can't even imagine how bad the Flyers would be if Richards and carter were on the team.

Raffl - Giroux - Read
Umberger - Carter - Vinny
Bellemare - Richards - Laughton
Rinaldo - Couturier - VandeVelde

Man, that's brutal.

First, there wouldn't be any Couturier. Also, I'm betting either Carter or (more likely) Giroux would have been moved to wing.

Giroux - Carter - Read
Bellemare - Richards - *
Raffl - Laughton - Umberger
Rinaldo - White - VandeVelde

Coburn - Streit
MacDonald - Morin
Del Zotto - L Schenn

Bobrovsky
Emery

* Player the Flyers signed instead of Lecavalier because they would have had no need for a veteran centre.

 

[bauer]

I'm just having a fun debate with Flyers fans. What would be your feelings if this was your front office


President Paul Holmgren
General Manager Ron Hextall
Senior Vice President Bob Clarke
Head coach Craig Berube


My point to Flyers fans was all 4 of those guys were goons and aren't the brightest tools in the shed. I wouldn't want those people running anything for the team I supported. To me, being effective in a front office position with a sports team requires creativity, intelligence, patience and an understanding how the game is won at the current moment. I don't see any of those guys having those traits.

yeah 3 time 100 point scorer who's in the HHOF. what a goon that Bobby Clarke was. one of the best leaders of all-time. where does HFBoards finds these idiots? seriously.

Hextall won with LA as an assistant GM. Lombardi, who the majority here seem to think is the best GM in hockey, speaks very highly of him.

we'll give ya Berube, that's it. but he'll be gone at season's end anyway so who cares?

 

[SchennSational1022*]

First, there wouldn't be any Couturier. Also, I'm betting either Carter or (more likely) Giroux would have been moved to wing.

Giroux - Carter - Read
Bellemare - Richards - *
Raffl - Laughton - Umberger
Rinaldo - White - VandeVelde

Coburn - Streit
MacDonald - Morin
Del Zotto - L Schenn

Bobrovsky
Emery

* Player the Flyers signed instead of Lecavalier because they would have had no need for a veteran centre.

That forward group is brutal. That defense looks much better though, that wil be our D next year.

 

[Bending and Tending]

So trading basically nothing for Timonen and Hartnell was a dumb move? Those two became cornerstones of the franchise for years.

How about acquiring Simmonds and B. Schenn for a guy that was just placed on waivers?

How about getting The league's leading scorer and Couturier for Carter who touched 50 points last season for the first time since being traded?

A 3rd round pick for Steve Mason? Horrible.

Finding solid undrafted players like Read, Raffl, and Bobrovsky was pretty bad too.

Funny how wording makes a difference.

You don't mention that, when Richards was traded, they moved a cornerstone. Or that he won 2 cups. Not bad for a guy on waivers.

They also got rid of Hartnell.

How about getting rid of a goalie who became a Vezina winner?

But yes, it's nice they have the leading point scorer. Too bad they're not in a playoff spot.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

1 did RIchards. Carter was horrible that year.

They won two cups off the coattails of superior players. QUick doughty kopi williams brown are the core of those playoff teams bud. Carter and ricahrds were nice complimentary players not on the same page the nhl's point leader and simmonds and schenn. That trade is about as 1 sided as it gets

The bold is so incorrect it isnt even funny. Quick played like crap last year. Brown was not better than Carter last year and isnt a better player than Carter, at all. Carter had one less point than Williams, but had 1 more goal than him with 10, which was second on the team to only to Gaborik who had 14 in the playoffs.

2011 - 12 Carter was tied for most goals on the team in the playoffs with Brown and Kopitar with each of them having put up 8 goals. He was a major piece that turned that team into what it has become.

Carter put up 33 goals and 61 points in the regular season in 74 games in 2009-10 for the Flyers and in the playoffs he only played 12 games and put up 5 goals and 7 points.

Oh, and lets look at this year, Carter is out playing the hell out of Brown, again.

On to Richards, he played an important role on the kings team in 2011-2012. He also scored his goals and put up points in the playoffs as well.

They didnt win the cup on the coattails of other players, and Carter was certainly better than Brown.

Sorry bud, youre wrong.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Did I say they traded him to the Kings? nope. Dont jump to conclusions. I know he was traded to the Jackets, but it was dumb for the Flyers to let him go. He clearly is an impact player having helped a team win 2 cups in 3 years.

Ah yes, the usual complete ignorance of the Flyers' situation when the trades went down.

The Flyers didn't trade Richards and Carter for the hell of it. The Flyers were in a dire situation after going all-in to make a push for a Cup. They needed to upgrade their goalie, and they needed to fill several roster spots as well. They did not have enough cap space to do that. On top of that, there were no cheap prospects at all and they didn't even have their first rounder that year. All of this with zero cap space. It was abundantly clear the Flyers' Cup window was closed, and that some major roster changes were inevitable just to keep the team afloat. Richards and Carter had more value than any other player, so they traded them and built around Giroux. I repeat, the Cup window was shut. It was done. Keeping Richards and Carter would have done nothing at all to re-open it. If they keep Richards and Carter, the team is easily in worse position today. They made 2 players into 6 players, and even then that barely was enough to fill out the roster; if Couturier doesn't make the jump at 18 years old they would've needed to resort to piling trash into a roster spot.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

The bold is so incorrect it isnt even funny. Quick played like crap last year. Brown was not better than Carter last year and isnt a better player than Carter, at all. Carter had one less point than Williams, but had 1 more goal than him with 10, which was second on the team to only to Gaborik who had 14 in the playoffs.

2011 - 12 Carter was tied for most goals on the team in the playoffs with Brown and Kopitar with 8. He was a major piece that turned that team into what it has become.

Carter put up 33 goals and 61 points in the regular season in 74 games in 2009-10 for the Flyers and in the playoffs he only played 12 games and put up 5 goals and 7 points.

Oh, and lets look at this year, Carter is out playing the hell out of Brown, again.

On to Richards, he played an important role on the kings team in 2011-2012. He also scored his goals and put up points in the playoffs as well.

They didnt win the cup on the coattails of other players, and Carter was certainly better than Brown.

Sorry bud, youre wrong.

Cool, they are both inferior players to who they got traded for, end of discussion. You can stop acting like you know anything about the Flyers, you're lost.