OOT scoreboard 2025 playoff edition

[thebeernerd]

"Goaltending is voodoo" isn't just a silly turn of phrase, it's a fact.

 

[NJDevs26]

Classic Pete. The bump he gives teams upon his hire has always been impressive. Even his first job in Florida he just barely missed getting those scrubs to the playoffs. But as with most coaches, things wear thin around that 3-4 year mark.

I wouldn't have blamed him for the pull necessarily given the team was flat and he maybe was trying to find a spark for them (and it almost having worked somewhat, they cut the 3-0 deficit to one goal twice), but to throw your goalie under the bus afterwards and bring up his track record is pretty tough stuff. Especially when you yourself as a coach have a track record of falling short over and over again. I wish a media member had brought that up to him.

Yeah the whole getting defensive about the move afterwards and ripping the goalie in a presser is ten times worse than the actual pull

Maybe he does know he’s getting fired and is going full Bill Murray in Groundhog Day driving the truck off the cliff to try to kill the groundhog.

 

[JK3]

Yeah the pull was fine but you can’t single out one guy (when they were lacking everywhere else) AND rip him about last year too. Yikes.

Oh Pete, what a boob.

 

[Clam Jensen]

The only thing more volatile year to year than goalies are relief pitchers. Yeesh.

 

[Whaddagoal]

He’s been known to get nasty with the media and telling them things like “maybe you should apply for a coaching job”.

He did that once here, and I know he did it once in Dallas.

And then there was another time he cursed at somebody who he thought was implying the team wasn’t working hard. I think he snapped and said something like “is that how the game looked to you tonight?”. I think that was in Dallas, but it could have been Vegas. I think it was Dallas and some of his blow ups have come in playoff post game pressers.

He also had the falling out with Lehner and made similar comments about him at the end with Vegas, but that came in their one non-playoff year. And Lehner never played another season after that.

PDB was super cagey with the media in the last stretch here when things were falling off in that end season. I remember it, that's where the whole tough building, got legs.

 

[Whaddagoal]

The only thing more volatile year to year than goalies are relief pitchers. Yeesh.

(Not if you are a Mets fan, lol)

Yeah the pull was fine but you can’t single out one guy (when they were lacking everywhere else) AND rip him about last year too. Yikes.



Oh Pete, what a boob.

Agreed. It's the postgame rip and double down from last season shit.

 

[JrFischer54]

Glad this is getting more attention it is an unfair advantage some teams have and the defense “well no one went there when they were bad” ok but it’s helping them keep and lure new talent now that they are good.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Glad this is getting more attention it is an unfair advantage some teams have and the defense “well no one went there when they were bad” ok but it’s helping them keep and lure new talent now that they are good.

Again…the financial advantage in no income tax states is being completely overblown and trying to calculate its precise impact is essentially impossible. I don’t know if you’re American, but if you are, you should know how complex our taxes are and why it’s not at all realistic to think the league can somehow do something to address potential inequities around it.

 

[Devils731]

Again…the financial advantage in no income tax states is being completely overblown and trying to calculate its precise impact is essentially impossible. I don’t know if you’re American, but if you are, you should know how complex our taxes are and why it’s not at all realistic to think the league can somehow do something to address potential inequities around it.

I think it’s both overblown and real.

People who just take a player salary and apply the local state income tax to it obviously don’t know enough about how income taxes work for NHL players yet.

There are real tax advantages to playing in a low income tax state, especially if you don’t personally live in a low income tax state or if your pay has almost no signing bonus.

For some players, the difference could end up being millions of dollars and that’s not nothing. If a team in a low to no income tax state can squeeze and extra 3-5% out of their cap due to taxes then that’s a meaningful advantage.

Taxes are not the monster differentiator that some think but there is a meaningful impact at the end of the day, just lesser than some think.

 

[thebeernerd]

Glad this is getting more attention it is an unfair advantage some teams have and the defense “well no one went there when they were bad” ok but it’s helping them keep and lure new talent now that they are good.

No it's not. People want to go there because they're good, well-run teams. You undermined your own argument by saying they didn't go there when they were bad. It is, AT BEST, a bonus. And it may not even be a bonus because Uncle Sam still gets his piece in other ways.

And why are you glad this is "getting more attention?" It gets way too much attention every offseason by Canadian media people who are coping with why their teams haven't won a Stanley Cup in over 30 years. It makes me pull my hair out. But maybe you don't listen to hockey podcasts. If you don't, no shame.

I've only learned one thing from research methods classes in college, but it's an important one: correlation does not equal causation. This is a prime example of that logical fallacy. Players aren't giant sacks of meat going "me money me now." There are many other options that go into it and the chief among them is winning.

Food for thought: this is never, ever used in MLB, NFL, or NBA free agency. Otherwise Juan Soto would be a Texas Ranger, Astro, or Mariner.

 

[Clam Jensen]

I enjoy Biz in microscopic doses but this is such a sore loser sad Leafs fan take lol.

 

[guitarguyvic]

I think it’s both overblown and real.

People who just take a player salary and apply the local state income tax to it obviously don’t know enough about how income taxes work for NHL players yet.

There are real tax advantages to playing in a low income tax state, especially if you don’t personally live in a low income tax state or if your pay has almost no signing bonus.

For some players, the difference could end up being millions of dollars and that’s not nothing. If a team in a low to no income tax state can squeeze and extra 3-5% out of their cap due to taxes then that’s a meaningful advantage.

Taxes are not the monster differentiator that some think but there is a meaningful impact at the end of the day, just lesser than some think.

I don’t disagree but the problem is there’s no way to establish with certainty that a team is squeezing x amount more out of the cap due to the state tax laws, or what exact amount x is.

By Biz’s logic…why stop at taxes? There are players that likely take a slight contract discount to play in Southern California thanks to the beautiful weather/lifestyle. Should something be done to mitigate that “unfair advantage” for the sharks kings and ducks?

The reality is that the supposed tax advantage is nearly as difficult to quantify as any other “advantage” a given team might have over another.

 

[NJDevs26]

Well it’s an easy narrative given the Cup Finals the last few seasons have been dominated by teams in warm weather/tax free states and Connor McDavid. Maybe too simplistic but definitely an easy narrative to have right now.

Thing with Vegas is they also had the Bettman stimulus package to make them competitive as an expansion team and they’ve been able to ride that for a while.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Its complete loser talk.

He isnt complaining when a player wears maple leaf PJs and goes straight to Toronto, ignoring other markets.

Im sure he has no issue with players forcing the issue with their current teams to get onto teams like the Rangers.

He is a bitter loser because the Florida teams have been victimizing his precious Leafs for like 5+ years and he cant handle it

 

[jkrdevil]

Already had this debate in this thread, but again, no one is going there if the teams aren't good in the first place. I know the tax law's changed significantly in 2017, but no one but old guys on their last contracts were going to Florida before they got this core group in the mid-2010's. The California team's when they were good weren't showing up on no trade lists. The Rangers still attract top free agents. The Flyers will again when they approve. Detroit hasn't had trouble signing free agents (though their selection of signings can be questioned).

The Sun Belt teams just happened to cycle up around the same time.

 

[JrFischer54]

No it's not. People want to go there because they're good, well-run teams. You undermined your own argument by saying they didn't go there when they were bad. It is, AT BEST, a bonus. And it may not even be a bonus because Uncle Sam still gets his piece in other ways.

And why are you glad this is "getting more attention?" It gets way too much attention every offseason by Canadian media people who are coping with why their teams haven't won a Stanley Cup in over 30 years. It makes me pull my hair out. But maybe you don't listen to hockey podcasts. If you don't, no shame.

I've only learned one thing from research methods classes in college, but it's an important one: correlation does not equal causation. This is a prime example of that logical fallacy. Players aren't giant sacks of meat going "me money me now." There are many other options that go into it and the chief among them is winning.

Food for thought: this is never, ever used in MLB, NFL, or NBA free agency. Otherwise Juan Soto would be a Texas Ranger, Astro, or Mariner.

sure it doesn't just because they didn't want to go there when they were bad in the past doesn't mean they aren't able to keep good players now on their current roster at a slight discount to their cap.


for the soto part a player still has to want to go to said team and the team has to offer a contract. if he did get that same offer from the rangers he would be taking home more then currently with the mets no?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I think he pulled Marty early in the 2nd period after the Panthers tied it at 3-3. Marty didn’t get tagged with the loss because Hedberg allowed the game winner.

I was at that game too and the fact I don't remember it is a very good thing lmao

 

[BostonDevil]

I don’t disagree but the problem is there’s no way to establish with certainty that a team is squeezing x amount more out of the cap due to the state tax laws, or what exact amount x is.

By Biz’s logic…why stop at taxes? There are players that likely take a slight contract discount to play in Southern California thanks to the beautiful weather/lifestyle. Should something be done to mitigate that “unfair advantage” for the sharks kings and ducks?

The reality is that the supposed tax advantage is nearly as difficult to quantify as any other “advantage” a given team might have over another.

Agree! What are the property taxes in the states with no income tax? Sales tax? Car registration? How much does gas and electricity cost? Health care? Child care?

What are the marketing opportunities for a Canadian team's players vs someone in San Jose?

 

[JK3]

When do the finals start? Both series ended pretty quickly.

 

[Clam Jensen]

When do the finals start? Both series ended pretty quickly.

Friggin June 4th.

 

[My3Sons]

Regarding local taxes they are multi-layered issues. Arent all players are subject to the same taxes for the away games? Also you have property taxes if you buy a house and of course sales taxes as well. Local taxes are generally deductible from federal taxes if my memory is correct and players that are from outside the US may have other considerations as well. Also there are strategies people do to insulate themselves from local taxes. I’ve heard two NBA agents interviewed who minimized the issue saying it can be dealt with enough to where it is not a deciding factor for them. As a practical matter how many big UFAs are out there? It’s not like a player coming off his ELC is going to leave because of taxes. My guess is it is a bigger consideration for guys who have never made big money who are on the back 9 of a career.

 

[JK3]

Friggin June 4th.

That’s waaay too long, by the time we get there most of the casuals won’t even know the playoffs are still going.

 

[jkrdevil]

That’s waaay too long, by the time we get there most of the casuals won’t even know the playoffs are still going.

There are limited tv timeslots available. Logistically for the final because of various media they need a few days between series. There are also days that can’t play on because of the NBA and having shared rightholders. They also schedule the final in coordination with the NBA, which is why there are a bunch of two day breaks.

Can’t go on Monday because TNT is this year’s broadcaster and they have the rights to potential Knicks-Pacers game 7 that night. There are also NBA Finals start Thursday, so going Tuesday doesn’t make sense because that requires going Tuesday-Friday-Monday before getting the series back on the original schedule. So the move up was to Wednesday-Friday and then going back to the original schedule of timeslots the following Monday.

 

[MadDevil]

I just realized that I'll be going from hoping a team with Brad Marchand on it wins to hoping a team that employs Corey Perry wins. If this doesn't prove how much Rico still means to me I dont know what will.

 

[JrFischer54]

Agree! What are the property taxes in the states with no income tax? Sales tax? Car registration? How much does gas and electricity cost? Health care? Child care?

What are the marketing opportunities for a Canadian team's players vs someone in San Jose?

Panthers want to sign a player for 5 million the guys take home after taxes is 3.5 million the leafs want to sign the same guy but to get the same take home his contract has to be 5.8 (these are all examples). Is that not what is going on ?