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OOT Scoreboard 2023-24 season - part II

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Whaddagoal said:
Hell f***ing no to Mike Sullivan. Penguins fans have been trying to rid of him for at least 2 years I think this is the 3rd season now where it seems they all want him gone and he just won't get fired. If some are unhappy with Ruff, I'd imagine they would be twice unhappy with Sullivan. He is their resident stubborn, unfireable coach stuck in a different era (although not too long ago but long enough to cause problems).

Just lurk over at the Pens board for last 2 years and you will see such disdain for Sullivan and his coaching ways.
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That's only because he's been there for years and past his expiration date with that team. Probably by a couple of years now.

I'm sure most were happy with him the first few years he was there, even though a lot of those people may claim they weren't.

Just because he needs to go in Pittsburgh doesn't mean he isn't a good head coach.
 
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Bleedred said:
That's only because he's been there for years and past his expiration date with that team. Probably by a couple of years now.

I'm sure most were happy with him the first few years he was there, even though a lot of those people may claim they weren't.

Just because he needs to go in Pittsburgh doesn't mean he isn't a good head coach.
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Guttersniped said:
People bitch about coaches. If you don’t want Sullivan then you want someone who hasn’t had a NHL head coaching job because the other fired guys are less appealing.

Their fans will find out soon enough that it’s the over the hill roster and not the coaching.
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It's both. Their old roster and bad system/coaching.

His system has completely taken a guy who scored 101 pts last season on a shit team to become a much less dynamic player.

Their PP is and was an utter disaster this season. They have some of the most premier (although aged) PP players ever to play the game in the last 15 years

Marino went from bad guy to good guy here.

Graves went from decent player here to less than good player there.

He has played Jeff Carter way too much over last few seasons. Players left elsewhere and had better seasons. Granlund looks better on SJS than as a rental for Pitts.

His system structure crushes the creativity of certain highly creative players. If he brought something similar to here, we would have a fit.

Fans on their end are saying he's stuck in the previous decade (systems wise). I believe it when you see the matchup against our team.
 
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Whaddagoal said:
It's both. Their old roster and bad system/coaching.

His system has completely taken a guy who scored 101 pts last season on a shit team to become a much less dynamic player.

Their PP is and was an utter disaster this season. They have some of the most premier (although aged) PP players ever to play the game in the last 15 years

Marino went from bad guy to good guy here.

Graves went from decent player here to less than good player there.

He has played Jeff Carter way too much over last few seasons. Players left elsewhere and had better seasons. Granlund looks better on SJS than as a rental for Pitts.

His system structure crushes the creativity of certain highly creative players. If he brought something similar to here, we would have a fit.

Fans on their end are saying he's stuck in the previous decade (systems wise). I believe it when you see the matchup against our team.
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Karlsson’s season last year was much better than Karlsson is at this point or even has been for about the past 5 years.

That contract would have been close to untradeable if he didn’t have that season. And he’d still be on the Sharks.
 
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Whaddagoal said:
It's both. Their old roster and bad system/coaching.

His system has completely taken a guy who scored 101 pts last season on a shit team to become a much less dynamic player.

Their PP is and was an utter disaster this season. They have some of the most premier (although aged) PP players ever to play the game in the last 15 years

Marino went from bad guy to good guy here.

Graves went from decent player here to less than good player there.

He has played Jeff Carter way too much over last few seasons. Players left elsewhere and had better seasons. Granlund looks better on SJS than as a rental for Pitts.

His system structure crushes the creativity of certain highly creative players. If he brought something similar to here, we would have a fit.

Fans on their end are saying he's stuck in the previous decade (systems wise). I believe it when you see the matchup against our team.
Click to expand...


I will point out that teams almost always have a PP coach and this impotent PP is a new thing.

Granlund is playing ~5 minutes more in San Jose than he did as rental in Pittsburgh. Sometimes rentals don’t produce, he played 21 games with them.

Kessel had a career high 92 points while being smothered by Sullivan’s oppressive system and that was when scoring was under 3 goals a game.

They had the number one offense in 2016-17, and a top offense for years after that (and their top guys have been injured quite a bit):
17-18: 4th
18-19: 6th
19-20: 13th
20-21: 2nd
21-22: 11th
22-23: 17th
23-24: 28th

One explanation for this offensive decline is that they have a really old core and no secondary scoring. What amazing talent is he sitting to play Carter?

Jared McCann should still be on the team. The Pens traded him to Toronto right before the expansion draft because they protected Carter, Blueger and Kapanen instead, but that was a Hextall/Rutherford blunder.

I don’t have any particular interest in debating Sullivan too much since who knows when he gets fired. Pens ownership reportedly really love him and he signed for 3 more years after this season.
 
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Bleedred said:
Karlsson’s season last year was much better than Karlsson is at this point or even has been for about the past 5 years.

That contract would have been close to untradeable if he didn’t have that season. And he’d still be on the Sharks.
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Guttersniped said:
I will point out that teams almost always have a PP coach and this impotent PP is a new thing.

Granlund is playing ~5 minutes more in San Jose than he did as rental in Pittsburgh. Sometimes rentals don’t produce, he played 21 games with them.

Kessel had a career high 92 points while being smothered by Sullivan’s oppressive system and that was when scoring was under 3 goals a game.

They had the number one offense in 2016-17, and a top offense for years after that (and their top guys have been injured quite a bit):
17-18: 4th
18-19: 6th
19-20: 13th
20-21: 2nd
21-22: 11th
22-23: 17th
23-24: 28th

One explanation for this offensive decline is that they have a really old core and no secondary scoring. What amazing talent is he sitting to play Carter?

Jared McCann should still be on the team. The Pens traded him to Toronto right before the expansion draft because they protected Carter, Blueger and Kapanen instead, but that was a Hextall/Rutherford blunder.

I don’t have any particular interest in debating Sullivan too much since who knows when he gets fired. Pens ownership reportedly really love him and he signed for 3 more years after this season.
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Of course he had a revival season but I think that was for a number of reasons including trying to make out of SJS.

Pens fans say they didn't draft a good forward in ages but maybe Sullivan never played em. They had Jeff Carter at 17:00 atoi just a few seasons ago. Now only at 10 mins this season. I don't follow them as closely as they themselves follow, but their board seems really pissed off for a variety of different coaching reasons, moreso than the Rags board when they lose, or even our complaints with Ruff.

My point is, I'd be hesitant to assume Sullivan would easily bring us more than Ruff has with the core/system we currently employ. Pens board moans about over usage of Rust and Carter. Lament about not getting young guys minutes. Maybe they have nobody but i got the impression it took awhile for them to see people they had because Sullivan wouldnt play em.

True point not worth a massive debate, just I get weary about the idea of Sullivan after reading their board on the lurk over the last seasons.
 
Bleedred said:
Yzerfrauds down 3-0.

Only two points behind them and even in games if the Canucks hold on.
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Apparently Clemmensem and another NJ scout are at the Sharks Flames game tonight but the rookie is starting for Calgary so Nj must be there scouting the Sharks goalie who is doing great tonight. Any thoughts on him? Seems like a subtle smart move by NJ to pivot to whoever this goalie might be.
 
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