Ontario Reign 21-22 Thread 2: Reigndrops keep falling on my head

[lumbergh]

Out of curiosity... where are you seeing these WOWY numbers?

I use Natural Stat Trick. Search even-strength, on-ice, teammate data. Anderson struggles without Doughty. Anderson-Doughty is a good pairing, but Doughty-Durzi is an amazing pairing.

 

[Fishhead]

Ooh, yeah, um, I'm just going to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there. Mikey is riding Doughty's coattails and his WOWY numbers say so. He's playing the role of stay at home defenseman, but that's pretty much it. 2 goals and 4 assists playing next to Doughty, that's sub For-bore numbers.

You know who should be playing next to Doughty, is Sean Durzi. 5 goals for, 1 goal against (83% GF%) in only 37 minutes together at even strength. 29 shots for, 9 shots against (>76%). That's just absurd. Small sample size, but never the less, their WOWY numbers go way up when they're together. That's chemistry.

I like Mikey, but he's not great with the puck on his stick. Lots of panic, slap the puck to get it out kind of mentality. Maybe he figures it out someday, but I just don't see it. Not as long as he's stapled to Doughty's hip.

Well, I wouldn't doubt Anderson's numbers without Doughty were terrible because he and Bjornfot were out there facing top competition when Doughty was out. You would likely see that from any really young paring. Mikey isn't being carried, you can see how he and Drew's numbers have both increased since they've been put together. Drew is having a career season without question, and that doesn't happen when someone is carried.

If you want to see what carried looks like, check out Drew's numbers after he started playing with Forbort. Year over year drops in possession, productivity, and so on. I went round and round with a particular poster about how McNabb should be the one we were protecting and not Forbort, because he was the better player and Drew was having Norris level seasons next to him. Of course McNabb was the resident whipping boy at that time, so I got called an idiot quite a bunch. While calling me an idiot is pretty accurate in many instances, we saw how that turned out. Certain metrics just don't lie, and Anderson is incredibly strong in a lot of the departments that make a good, responsible partner. He's not a world-beater and he's never going to put up big numbers, but he's going up against the best the NHL has to offer at 22 years old and succeeding.

I don't think Durzi/Doughty would be a bad pairing at all, but keep in mind those instances where Doughty and Durzi are together are when it's late in the game and the team is pressing for a goal. They are pushing forward and taking risks, and other teams are in contain mode. I think those would change quite a bit if they were an everyday pairing and not just used together in specialty situations.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Very true. He had great things to say about being paired with Ollie Maatta....

Bottom line, his opinion on Mikey Isn’t anything to read into beyond superficial praise.

 

[lumbergh]

Well, I wouldn't doubt Anderson's numbers without Doughty were terrible because he and Bjornfot were out there facing top competition when Doughty was out. You would likely see that from any really young paring. Mikey isn't being carried, you can see how he and Drew's numbers have both increased since they've been put together. Drew is having a career season without question, and that doesn't happen when someone is carried.

If you want to see what carried looks like, check out Drew's numbers after he started playing with Forbort. Year over year drops in possession, productivity, and so on. I went round and round with a particular poster about how McNabb should be the one we were protecting and not Forbort, because he was the better player and Drew was having Norris level seasons next to him. Of course McNabb was the resident whipping boy at that time, so I got called an idiot quite a bunch. While calling me an idiot is pretty accurate in many instances, we saw how that turned out. Certain metrics just don't lie, and Anderson is incredibly strong in a lot of the departments that make a good, responsible partner. He's not a world-beater and he's never going to put up big numbers, but he's going up against the best the NHL has to offer at 22 years old and succeeding.

I don't think Durzi/Doughty would be a bad pairing at all, but keep in mind those instances where Doughty and Durzi are together are when it's late in the game and the team is pressing for a goal. They are pushing forward and taking risks, and other teams are in contain mode. I think those would change quite a bit if they were an everyday pairing and not just used together in specialty situations.

I must have been one of the few who agreed with you on McNabb over Forbort at the time.

 

[Fishhead]

I use Natural Stat Trick. Search even-strength, on-ice, teammate data. Anderson struggles without Doughty. Anderson-Doughty is a good pairing, but Doughty-Durzi is an amazing pairing.

Yes, but you need context with WOWY. Do you know who has better numbers than Drew and Durzi? Maatta and Strand. Same sample size, same dominant numbers. Drew and Durzi have been together for only 3 minutes when leading, otherwise, it's tied or trailing. They are put out there for pure offense when the other team is trying to preserve a lead, so it's easy to see why their possession is so dominant. They are the go-to empty net pairing by far. They look pretty good together when they are out there, but it's impossible to say how well that pairing would do for 500+ minutes as opposed to 26.

 

[Fishhead]

I must have been one of the few who agreed with you on McNabb over Forbort at the time.

Yeah there weren't many of us for sure.

With Anderson we are probably falling into that trap of trying to define levels and pairings, when really what matters is the defense as a whole. What I take from all the WOWY numbers is that Durzi and Roy are criminally underrated and are best suited when played with the opposite skillset. I think the biggest wildcard is Edler, who I don't think we've had any updates about in a while. He and Roy were playing like a monster pairing. If he did return from injury and regained form, having a 3rd pairing of Bjornfot/Durzi and rolling three lines would be damn formidable.

 

[funky]

O

Drew Doughty disagrees with you.

It’s possible that Drew doesn’t remember what it’s like to play with a good defenseman it’s been so long.

That’s no shot against Anderson, he’s just pure defense.

 

[HookKing]

Well, I wouldn't doubt Anderson's numbers without Doughty were terrible because he and Bjornfot were out there facing top competition when Doughty was out. You would likely see that from any really young paring. Mikey isn't being carried, you can see how he and Drew's numbers have both increased since they've been put together. Drew is having a career season without question, and that doesn't happen when someone is carried.

If you want to see what carried looks like, check out Drew's numbers after he started playing with Forbort. Year over year drops in possession, productivity, and so on. I went round and round with a particular poster about how McNabb should be the one we were protecting and not Forbort, because he was the better player and Drew was having Norris level seasons next to him. Of course McNabb was the resident whipping boy at that time, so I got called an idiot quite a bunch. While calling me an idiot is pretty accurate in many instances, we saw how that turned out. Certain metrics just don't lie, and Anderson is incredibly strong in a lot of the departments that make a good, responsible partner. He's not a world-beater and he's never going to put up big numbers, but he's going up against the best the NHL has to offer at 22 years old and succeeding.

I don't think Durzi/Doughty would be a bad pairing at all, but keep in mind those instances where Doughty and Durzi are together are when it's late in the game and the team is pressing for a goal. They are pushing forward and taking risks, and other teams are in contain mode. I think those would change quite a bit if they were an everyday pairing and not just used together in specialty situations.

Are we forgetting healthy scratch McNabb? Or, that with Drew and Derek the Kings had the leagues best D and PK in 2018? Not to mention Drew had his best offensive year in 2018.

McNabb is a mediocre stiff that hides under a stacked team, that's why he re-upped (wisely) so cheaply to stay in Vegas. After the devastating injury Forbort took in the 2018 playoffs he didn't come back as the same player and the Kings moved on from him. But don't think for a minute that McNabb was some kind of missing piece.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Name one partner Drew Doughty has said he doesn’t want to play with.

This is a totally false narrative.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Very true. He had great things to say about being paired with Ollie Maatta....

He had nice things to say about playing with Maatta BEFORE they played together. They played together for like what... 3 games?

It's not even remotely the same thing.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Bottom line, his opinion on Mikey Isn’t anything to read into beyond superficial praise.

It absolutely is.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Doughty and Durzi have played 26 minutes together...

Trent Yawney just mentioned that he'll play them together at the end of a powerplay when they need 2 D because the other teams penalized player is coming back on.

 

[Eagle Fang]

He had nice things to say about playing with Maatta BEFORE they played together. They played together for like what... 3 games?

It's not even remotely the same thing.

Give me a break. It's the same thing.

The point being made is that Doughty is going to say good things about all his teammates, especially his defense partner. Only a complete tool would assume he wouldn't be flowers and sunshine had be been asked about having Maatta as his partner AFTER they played a few games.

This is a guy who said Derek Forbot might be a better defenseman then he is.

So if it's about judging the quality of a player based on what Drew says... good Lord. And no, I'm not claiming I or anyone knows more about a player than he does. As DoktorJeep pointed out, he heaps praise on every one on his teammates.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Yeah there weren't many of us for sure.

With Anderson we are probably falling into that trap of trying to define levels and pairings, when really what matters is the defense as a whole. What I take from all the WOWY numbers is that Durzi and Roy are criminally underrated and are best suited when played with the opposite skillset. I think the biggest wildcard is Edler, who I don't think we've had any updates about in a while. He and Roy were playing like a monster pairing. If he did return from injury and regained form, having a 3rd pairing of Bjornfot/Durzi and rolling three lines would be damn formidable.

Agreed. Roy on the PP was painful to watch but no doubt he's a solid player who brings a little bit of that physical element. Durzi has been amazing so far.

I know this is kind of turning into a bash Mikey Anderson thread, but while I don't really care for the guy, he's hanging in there. I fully understand he's a young player put in a very difficult role.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Give me a break. It's the same thing.

The point being made is that Doughty is going to say good things about all his teammates, especially his defense partner. Only a complete moron would assume he wouldn't be flowers and sunshine had be been asked about having Maatta as his partner AFTER they played a few games.

This is a guy who said Derek Forbot might be a better defenseman then he is.

So if it's about judging the quality of a player based on what Drew says... good Lord.

It just isn't. I don't know how many times I have to list all the different times and places he's said what he's said about playing with Anderson but it simply is NOT the same thing.

 

[Eagle Fang]

It just isn't. I don't know how many times I have to list all the different times and places he's said what he's said about playing with Anderson but it simply is NOT the same thing.

No one is doubting he has great things to say about Anderson. At the same time no one would expect him to say anything different. He may actually believe it, no one knows especially based on his tendency to praise everyone he plays with. I just don't think Doughty's comments are any real indication of how good the player is.

I go back to the Derek Forbort comment and will retract my point if there's actually someone who thinks Forbort is in the same universe as Drew is defensively.

 

[DoktorJeep]

It just isn't. I don't know how many times I have to list all the different times and places he's said what he's said about playing with Anderson but it simply is NOT the same thing.

Please do list all the times Doughty has praised Mikey and compare it to every other positive and negative statement he’s made about any teammate. We can have a praise per season winner at the end of the year.

Go ahead and make it an advanced stat.

DPO - Doughty Praise Overage

 

[All The Kings Men]

Please do list all the times Doughty has praised Mikey and compare it to every other positive and negative statement he’s made about any teammate. We can have a praise per season winner at the end of the year.

Go ahead and make it an advanced stat.

DPO - Doughty Praise Overage

i've already done it at least three times I think?

I'm working on a segment for the podcast where I'm compiling all the audio of him talking about Mikey and Mikey talking about him and McLellan and Yawney talking about them as a pair with stats from the Athletic article.... it's not just some random pleasant comment from Drew.

I'm not going to cry or be inconsolable if they wind up trading for Chychrun and trying them together as a pair or anything but this just isn't even remotely the same thing as Drew making one preseason comment about Maatta or one comment about Forbort's ability to defend.

 

[funky]

i've already done it at least three times I think?

I'm working on a segment for the podcast where I'm compiling all the audio of him talking about Mikey and Mikey talking about him and McLellan and Yawney talking about them as a pair with stats from the Athletic article.... it's not just some random pleasant comment from Drew.

I'm not going to cry or be inconsolable if they wind up trading for Chychrun and trying them together as a pair or anything but this just isn't even remotely the same thing as Drew making one preseason comment about Maatta or one comment about Forbort's ability to defend.

Love listening to ALL the Kings Men - keep those segments coming.


I like Mikey and Drew but I would much rather see us trade for a Chychrun, Sergachev, Provorov type to play all situation bigger minutes with Drew. Would love to see that pair in that 24:00 minute mark a game. Just helps reduce wear and tear yet gives our best players a lot of time on the ice.

I would love to see Mikey on the second pair with Durzi. I think they would balance each other. Durzi all offence and Anderson all defense.

Hell even if the second and third pair d-pairings average out 18 mins a game each I think it would balance out the lineup better.

For giggles;

Chychrun - Doughty - 22 to 24 mins a night
Anderson - Durzi - 18 to 20
Bjornfot - Roy - 18 to 20


With the heaps of talented right shot Dmen not in our current lineup - Walker, Clarke, Spence, Faber, Grans we should see some new blood enter the lineup the next few years. If everything works out we upgrade Durzi to Clarke and Roy to Faber and keep the contracts low in those first few years.

Just worried about our top end left shot depth. We have a lot of good players and a lot of depth defensemen, just not that high end guy. Grab one in a trade and the upper echelon wont have to worry about defense for years. Great problem to have.

Man if we could only develop forwards as fast as Dmen.

 

[cyclones22]

Man if we could only develop forwards as fast as Dmen.

The forwards are doing just fine in Juniors and Ontario. I think what we want is for forwards be given opportunity like the defenders are on the big club. All of the top forward prospects in Ontario have good to excellent numbers. Seemingly the NHL leadership trust the defensemen prospects more than the forwards when called up. Next season in Ontario, Frk, Tkachev and Tynan need to not be on the roster. Thank them for their service but cut them loose.

The first line and PP1 cannot be comprised of AHL journeymen past this season. Right now, it's fine with them bringing leadership and maturity to the squad, but now you've got a bunch of young prospects who are running out of waiver eligibility. It's time to develop them as top 6 forwards, as they were drafted to be, with those roles and responsibilities instead of middle 6 or bottom 6 roles in Ontario.

 

[ru4reals]

Apparently there was a game tonight against the Roadrunners. Reign wins in OT 4-3. Lias with two goals and Frk scores in OT with is 28th of the year.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Apparently there was a game tonight against the Roadrunners. Reign wins in OT 4-3. Lias with two goals and Frk scores in OT with is 28th of the year.

Yep, I caught the last half of the game and it was pretty boring up until the last 2 mins. Andersson scored both of his goals in the last few minutes including a between-the-legs goal in front of the net.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Balls



yikes the snipe on the first one too

 

[Statto]

Andersson has become a little bit lost in the mix but if he keeps finishing like that he will very quickly be back in the conversation. At this point I’m completely lost and baffled as to who fits into the current roster, who might make it next year… and so on.

So many options…

 

[Steve Zissou]

Huge comeback win for the boys tonight. That between-the-legs goal by Andersson to tie the game was pretty slick. After the season he has had (and not had) that must feel good!