OT: One More Off Topic Off Season Thread

[Fourier]

Yes, this existed here DT. The library as well was beautiful. I believe the DT library is seen behind the courthouse in the last picture.

The loss of the courthouse is often sited as one of the many many disastrous decisions to let classic buildings get demolished. Indeed at one time in this city there was a zeal to rip down any buildings that were older and had character and replace them with such modernity as Brutalist 50's -60-70's's architecture.

Its also disappointing that Parks Canada chose to get behind the Winnipeg Court House as a heritage preserve, a beautiful building, and had not done the same in the case of the Edmonton Court house.

Parks Canada - Winnipeg Law Courts National Historic Site of Canada

www.pc.gc.ca

I remember that courthouse.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

This guy could add some toughness to any lineup.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837516546899313091

 

[Drivesaitl]

Taking the convo here. One of the many reasons I dislike Rogers Place compared to Rexall place.

Quite simply one was designed for working folk to enjoy games in affordable seats and the new generation of Stadia/Arena are designed specifically with high price points in mind. No need or want for "Gallery" seating, get rid of that, maximize the amount of most expensive seats.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/business/its-not-just-the-super-bowl-going-to-a-game-is-becoming-unaffordable/index.html

I smelled this miles away soon as the original Arena renderings were being discussed.

Ironically these facilities being built with public funding to ensure that less people can afford to go to events and unfortunately that less major events take place.

For me, and I gather for a lot of people sports and entertainment stopped being a thing when ticket prices flew over 100bucks. Now into thousands of bucks for some events.

"Funflation"

Pass, lots of other fun things to do that don't cost a new mortgage.

Biggest irony is that almost all the fantastic events, Stanley Cup wins etc took place at the old Arena, Rexall place, the one they're tearing down. An arena where it was costing 24bucks to see a SC game 7 win. Still have the ticket stubs. Got to see Kiss, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Police, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Yes, etc at the old arena along with multiple SC wins. Didn't cost 2000 a ticket for any of it. It cost 1% of that.

 

[brentashton]

This guy could add some toughness to any lineup.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837516546899313091

All that for a 2 dollar bottle of mouthwash… rough.

 

[DavidHasselhoffsFist]

This guy could add some toughness to any lineup.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1837516546899313091

The sound of his head bouncing off the cart rack

 

[timekeep]

Taking the convo here. One of the many reasons I dislike Rogers Place compared to Rexall place.

Quite simply one was designed for working folk to enjoy games in affordable seats and the new generation of Stadia/Arena are designed specifically with high price points in mind. No need or want for "Gallery" seating, get rid of that, maximize the amount of most expensive seats.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/business/its-not-just-the-super-bowl-going-to-a-game-is-becoming-unaffordable/index.html

I smelled this miles away soon as the original Arena renderings were being discussed.

Ironically these facilities being built with public funding to ensure that less people can afford to go to events and unfortunately that less major events take place.

For me, and I gather for a lot of people sports and entertainment stopped being a thing when ticket prices flew over 100bucks. Now into thousands of bucks for some events.

"Funflation"

Pass, lots of other fun things to do that don't cost a new mortgage.

Biggest irony is that almost all the fantastic events, Stanley Cup wins etc took place at the old Arena, Rexall place, the one they're tearing down. An arena where it was costing 24bucks to see a SC game 7 win. Still have the ticket stubs. Got to see Kiss, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Police, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Yes, etc at the old arena along with multiple SC wins. Didn't cost 2000 a ticket for any of it. It cost 1% of that.

It's 2024 man, pro sports teams are owned by business people. They would rather sell less expensive seats and make those people pay lots for for food and beverage. I recall taking a cooler to the Esks games, with beer in it. No major sports team is selling tickets for $25, even exhibition. But you could probably find it on the resellers.

 

[rboomercat90]

Taking the convo here. One of the many reasons I dislike Rogers Place compared to Rexall place.

Quite simply one was designed for working folk to enjoy games in affordable seats and the new generation of Stadia/Arena are designed specifically with high price points in mind. No need or want for "Gallery" seating, get rid of that, maximize the amount of most expensive seats.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/business/its-not-just-the-super-bowl-going-to-a-game-is-becoming-unaffordable/index.html

I smelled this miles away soon as the original Arena renderings were being discussed.

Ironically these facilities being built with public funding to ensure that less people can afford to go to events and unfortunately that less major events take place.

For me, and I gather for a lot of people sports and entertainment stopped being a thing when ticket prices flew over 100bucks. Now into thousands of bucks for some events.

"Funflation"

Pass, lots of other fun things to do that don't cost a new mortgage.

Biggest irony is that almost all the fantastic events, Stanley Cup wins etc took place at the old Arena, Rexall place, the one they're tearing down. An arena where it was costing 24bucks to see a SC game 7 win. Still have the ticket stubs. Got to see Kiss, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Police, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Yes, etc at the old arena along with multiple SC wins. Didn't cost 2000 a ticket for any of it. It cost 1% of that.

I’m almost as old as you are. I never saw class as an issue in our society (I’m specifically speaking about Canada here) at all up until about 10-15 years ago. It dominates it today. It’s really sad.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's 2024 man, pro sports teams are owned by business people. They would rather sell less expensive seats and make those people pay lots for for food and beverage. I recall taking a cooler to the Esks games, with beer in it. No major sports team is selling tickets for $25, even exhibition. But you could probably find it on the resellers.

So I don't really get this statement. Does 2024 have to suck for the consumer in everything? Do we have to be gouged in all our purchase?

Yes, business people want to make money. What has changed is the amount of money they want to make, and the margin they want to have, and willing dupes, we pay for it and in some instances like with food or heating costs with no choice.

It used to be considered to be OK to run profitable business that served well, and provided good product at reasonable price thus accruing the most consumers. Some businesses still operate that way but not many.

If the public just accepts its just 2024 so prices suck its supporting the whole shell game of why there is such rampant inflation. Or one of the reasons for it anyway.

In anycase even if one buys the argument that this should be what entertainment should cost one has to reconcile that stadia/arenas are generally getting lower capacity thus limiting the amount of seats to any event. The purveyors say that reducing attendance is within the purview of "improving customer experience" when really its about improving the supply/demand equation and increasingly to a smaller portioned market.

Rexall place had more events and more tickets sold almost any year of operation than Rogers Place is doing. One of the reasons for this is high pricing on entertainment means that only the highest profile entertainment now ends up in Arena's and has event dates. Ticketmaster, Livenation are sucking all the money out of the entertainment industry, and also increasing prices and surcharges. This kind of play works in the short term but in longterm it kills the same industries because less and less people consider themselves prime ticket consumers. The goose that lays the golden egg is dying and a lot of the top brand entertainers are too, and not being replaced by too many.

My option is just say no. It is for anybody.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I’m almost as old as you are. I never saw class as an issue in our society (I’m specifically speaking about Canada here) at all up until about 10-15 years ago. It dominates it today. It’s really sad.

Yeah. Its really sad for younger people that end up paying hundreds or thousands to attend an event. That have to spend more than they conceptualize having to buy a house or any residence. For many buying a vehicle isn't even realistic option today.

Flashback but I paid 21bucks in 1983 to see David Bowie, Peter Gabriel, The Tubes. Bought several tickets to bring friends. One of the best times. Great concert, it was the top selling concert tour in the world and so the demand was there, and the artists and promoters could have required people to pay much much more. But many artists back then grew up working class and wanted to be performing for them. They didn't want the only people in the crowd to be CEO's or one percenters. They really didn't want that.

I went to around 40 NHL playoff games in the 80's including two Stanley Cup winning games. Collectively all those games and events cost me LESS than somebody going to the playoffs or final round last season. Something to think about.

So that today Taylor Swift costs 100X as much to see and isn't even comparable in quality to former artists. Pay 100X more, get dreck. No wonder the music industry is dead and dying.

I don't write any of this for me but for the few people that will read it and realize something is seriously wrong. People can't get out of all costs but can re-determine how much discretionary spending they want to spend.

 

[timekeep]

So I don't really get this statement. Does 2024 have to suck for the consumer in everything? Do we have to be gouged in all our purchase?

Yes, business people want to make money. What has changed is the amount of money they want to make, and the margin they want to have, and willing dupes, we pay for it and in some instances like with food or heating costs with no choice.

It used to be considered to be OK to run profitable business that served well, and provided good product at reasonable price thus accruing the most consumers. Some businesses still operate that way but not many.

If the public just accepts its just 2024 so prices suck its supporting the whole shell game of why there is such rampant inflation. Or one of the reasons for it anyway.

In anycase even if one buys the argument that this should be what entertainment should cost one has to reconcile that stadia/arenas are generally getting lower capacity thus limiting the amount of seats to any event. The purveyors say that reducing attendance is within the purview of "improving customer experience" when really its about improving the supply/demand equation and increasingly to a smaller portioned market.

Rexall place had more events and more tickets sold almost any year of operation than Rogers Place is doing. One of the reasons for this is high pricing on entertainment means that only the highest profile entertainment now ends up in Arena's and has event dates. Ticketmaster, Livenation are sucking all the money out of the entertainment industry, and also increasing prices and surcharges. This kind of play works in the short term but in longterm it kills the same industries because less and less people consider themselves prime ticket consumers. The goose that lays the golden egg is dying and a lot of the top brand entertainers are too, and not being replaced by too many.

My option is just say no. It is for anybody.

To be clear, i have little respect for Katz. Not telling you to stop whining and start buying tickets at today's prices, spend your money the way you wish. But to compare or reference prices from 30-40 years ago is very silly. Inflation is part of it, costs of doing business higher. This arena is more comfortable, parking is not great but I plan ahead. I don't know if Northlands was used more nights than Rogers though. Allot of crap goes on at Rogers.

I agree about ticketmaster, but that is the way most teams are going. Less staff to employ and no maintenance of a system. Another business decision by rich people.

 

[Drivesaitl]

To be clear, i have little respect for Katz. Not telling you to stop whining and start buying tickets at today's prices, spend your money the way you wish. But to compare or reference prices from 30-40 years ago is very silly. Inflation is part of it, costs of doing business higher. This arena is more comfortable, parking is not great but I plan ahead. I don't know if Northlands was used more nights than Rogers though. Allot of crap goes on at Rogers.

I agree about ticketmaster, but that is the way most teams are going. Less staff to employ and no maintenance of a system. Another business decision by rich people.

Inflation and costs and such can account for a 3X increase in ticket prices since the 80's. It can't account for a 100X increase in ticket prices. That is unaccountable. It isn't silly to bring it up.

Inflation Calculator

Calculate how much the cost of a fixed "basket" of consumer purchases has changed, using monthly consumer price index (CPI) data from 1914 to now.

www.bankofcanada.ca

But agreed these are business decisions for rich people designed for other rich people. The rest are shut out.

Put it this way. People in trades today make around twice as much, if that, then they made in 1983. They don't make 10 or 100X as much.

In 1983 I was making 20bucks an hour so a Bowie/Gabriel ticket was costing 1hr of pay. For the top drawing tour on the planet. A concert with huge production value.

The same today would cost 100X as much (Taylor Swift unfortunately) and go for around 2K a ticket representing TWO WEEKS of comparable salary in todays earnings.

No horse in this race as I wouldn't be buying anyway through ticketmaster. Refuse to support their business model in any way.

I would be more prepared to say c'est la vie to this except much of this stadia/arena that are for one percenters only are funded by taxpayers. Or portions thereof.

Certainly I could produce numbers on tickets sold at Rexall in a year vs Rogers in a year. Pollstar Rexall/Northlands numbers alone blow Rogers Place out the window. Much of todays entertainment that you see at Rogers place is half bowl lower only, or lower bowl only. They have hardly any artists that sell out the Arena here. Back in the 80's there would be easily 50 Non hockey sellouts every year.

Rexall one year saw nearly 500K NON Sports tickets sold. It flirted with 300-400k non sports tickets sold per year on a regular basis.

This was a typical year for Rexall Place

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://edmontonsun.com/2013/01/19/edmontons-rexall-place-ranked-among-busiest-arenas-in-the-world

Heres the pre pandemic 2019 numbers for Rogers place. (keeping in mind that amount was a high point for Rogers place to that point and was surpassed by Rexall all of its last years of operation.

https://data.pollstar.com/chart/2019/12/Top200Arenas_797.pdf

333K non sports tickets sold that year. Far less than Rexall in 2013 or the peak 470K Rexall sold in 2007.

 

[Fourier]

Taking the convo here. One of the many reasons I dislike Rogers Place compared to Rexall place.

Quite simply one was designed for working folk to enjoy games in affordable seats and the new generation of Stadia/Arena are designed specifically with high price points in mind. No need or want for "Gallery" seating, get rid of that, maximize the amount of most expensive seats.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/04/business/its-not-just-the-super-bowl-going-to-a-game-is-becoming-unaffordable/index.html

I smelled this miles away soon as the original Arena renderings were being discussed.

Ironically these facilities being built with public funding to ensure that less people can afford to go to events and unfortunately that less major events take place.

For me, and I gather for a lot of people sports and entertainment stopped being a thing when ticket prices flew over 100bucks. Now into thousands of bucks for some events.

"Funflation"

Pass, lots of other fun things to do that don't cost a new mortgage.

Biggest irony is that almost all the fantastic events, Stanley Cup wins etc took place at the old Arena, Rexall place, the one they're tearing down. An arena where it was costing 24bucks to see a SC game 7 win. Still have the ticket stubs. Got to see Kiss, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Police, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Yes, etc at the old arena along with multiple SC wins. Didn't cost 2000 a ticket for any of it. It cost 1% of that.

I think a key part of the inflation is the ease of online access for resale or even for the original sale. In the old day if you wanted to buy a ticket for a highly prized event you almost always had to go down to the venue and line up for hours to get tickets. This severely limited the market since relatively few people were going to do that for all but very special events.

And if you wanted to sell them to anyone but a friend you had to go the scalper route and stand outside the venue hoping enough people would show to make your money. Things could still get wild. I could have gotten $1000 for my ticket to game 5 of the 1984 finals. But on a snowy night in January with the Jets in town, if you were a scalper and you had extra tickets you were probably giving them away. (I never sold a single ticket during my years as a STH.) There may still be a limited demand in that situation, but chances are many of those tickets are sold well in advance.

Today if I want to see McCartney at the O2 this December or had I wanted to see Billy Joels last concert in his residency at MSG I could get tickets well in advance so I know I have the ones I want. All I have to do is pay the price.

It took a while for artists and venues to get in front of the resale market. But when they did it fundamentally reset the landscape.

 

[ZJuice]

I’m so depressed about the future of this province, country, planet, that I plan on being the loincloth guy on Whyte Ave after my two weeks are up. I will accept tips but make sure I have my busker license first.

Even thinking about doing a service where I pretend to harass yo girl and you “knock” me out with a single punch and look awesome doing it. Would you pay $20 for that?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I’m so depressed about the future of this province, country, planet, that I plan on being the loincloth guy on Whyte Ave after my two weeks are up. I will accept tips but make sure I have my busker license first.

Even thinking about doing a service where I pretend to harass yo girl and you “knock” me out with a single punch and look awesome doing it. Would you pay $20 for that?

So THATS why you wanted a loincloth

 

[ZJuice]

So THATS why you wanted a loincloth

We already have the shirtless guitar bladder, steampunk guy, push up guy.. we are missing loincloth guy

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think a key part of the inflation is the ease of online access for resale or even for the original sale. In the old day if you wanted to buy a ticket for a highly prized event you almost always had to go down to the venue and line up for hours to get tickets. This severely limited the market since relatively few people were going to do that for all but very special events.

And if you wanted to sell them to anyone but a friend you had to go the scalper route and stand outside the venue hoping enough people would show to make your money. Things could still get wild. I could have gotten $1000 for my ticket to game 5 of the 1984 finals. But on a snowy night in January with the Jets in town, if you were a scalper and you had extra tickets you were probably giving them away. (I never sold a single ticket during my years as a STH.) There may still be a limited demand in that situation, but chances are many of those tickets are sold well in advance.

Today if I want to see McCartney at the O2 this December or had I wanted to see Billy Joels last concert in his residency at MSG I could get tickets well in advance so I know I have the ones I want. All I have to do is pay the price.

It took a while for artists and venues to get in front of the resale market. But when they did it fundamentally reset the landscape.

No doubt Ticketmaster and Livenation have changed the marketplace. But the willingness to dig deep has as well.
Just to counter your 1K comment for 84 that was a home SC winning game. That potential was not there for any game last season, the Oilers and their fans with how the final played out had no home cup winning game. Such a game in todays tulipmania could've gone for 10K. Skies the limit really. Also that tons of people were paying 2K for tickets to pretty much any of the playoff games. The 1K you might have got for a ticket was outlier then. It wasn't a lot of people spending that.

Another factor I tend to mention a lot is the fan consumer willingness factor. It needs a reset. I used to attend auctions as a hobby and in an auction house the bidders that constantly drive up bids on lots are despised. Sometimes even thought to be confederates working in conjunction with the auction houses to inflate prices. Auction houses were often complicit with such schemes. Indeed Ticketmaste is under investigation for Bot sales of tickets that are automatically sold, and sold to inflate supply/demand equation. They dynamic pricing and limits pricing also plays with the house. Lots of stunts ticketmaster has been engaged in that prop up prices making the consumer feel those are the actual prices other people are paying. Ticketmaster is a rigged house right now, and before several courts worldwide for the tactics employed.

 

[BIeucheeseWithWings]

I love reading about government workers having to return to the office. They all possess "woe is me" attitudes. They have had up to 4 years of cushy lives being able to work from home.

 

[Fourier]

No doubt Ticketmaster and Livenation have changed the marketplace. But the willingness to dig deep has as well.
Just to counter your 1K comment for 84 that was a home SC winning game. That potential was not there for any game last season, the Oilers and their fans with how the final played out had no home cup winning game. Such a game in todays tulipmania could've gone for 10K. Skies the limit really. Also that tons of people were paying 2K for tickets to pretty much any of the playoff games. The 1K you might have got for a ticket was outlier then. It wasn't a lot of people spending that.

Another factor I tend to mention a lot is the fan consumer willingness factor. It needs a reset. I used to attend auctions as a hobby and in an auction house the bidders that constantly drive up bids on lots are despised. Sometimes even thought to be confederates working in conjunction with the auction houses to inflate prices. Auction houses were often complicit with such schemes. Indeed Ticketmaste is under investigation for Bot sales of tickets that are automatically sold, and sold to inflate supply/demand equation. They dynamic pricing and limits pricing also plays with the house. Lots of stunts ticketmaster has been engaged in that prop up prices making the consumer feel those are the actual prices other people are paying. Ticketmaster is a rigged house right now, and before several courts worldwide for the tactics employed.

You're not going to get a defense of Ticketmaster from me. Their pricing is often predatory. And yet I still buy tickets from them when I am in town so I am perhaps part of the problem.

What surprises me is the make-up of the crowds. I tend to like to sit in the lower bowl when I go and as you know its not cheap. But I am often surrounded by teenagers or kids in their 20's. I suppose that they are using their parents seats but still it tells you that many people are immune to the cost. Honestly, in my day as a STH there were some nights when I thought...no way was that worth the money. But looking back those days were and incredible bargain. Today when I go to a game it is actually rare for me to think I got anywhere near my money's worth. Frankly if it wasn't for McDavid I am not sure there would ever be such a night.

 

[BIeucheeseWithWings]

1 more day until the greatest comedy festival on earth kicks off: Skankfest. Too bad it is in Vegas though.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You're not going to get a defense of Ticketmaster from me. Their pricing is often predatory. And yet I still buy tickets from them when I am in town so I am perhaps part of the problem.

What surprises me is the make-up of the crowds. I tend to like to sit in the lower bowl when I go and as you know its not cheap. But I am often surrounded by teenagers or kids in their 20's. I suppose that they are using their parents seats but still it tells you that many people are immune to the cost. Honestly, in my day as a STH there were some nights when I thought...no way was that worth the money. But looking back those days were and incredible bargain. Today when I go to a game it is actually rare for me to think I got anywhere near my money's worth. Frankly if it wasn't for McDavid I am not sure there would ever be such a night.

Amen. Well stated and agreed with all. Times have changed and I echo same thoughts. So many times in seats wondering if its worth it.

haha disclosure that throughout the 90's I was on call. I would go to games sometimes just as a backup to not having to go out on another call after working all day (everyday). Seems like if you were at a game and said so it was an "out" for having to respond to yet more calls. So it was worth it in that sense. It wasn't worth it watching guys like David Oliver. lol I would never even pay more than 20. 10-20bucks from scalpers, I would just walk up for tickets just before gametime because I was often working in the area anyway. Parking free at Borden park. Loved it all really. At least the opponent teams were usually good and it was still NHL technically..

I tapped out after 2006. Only been to the odd game since. Only seen McD and Drai in person once or twice which is a shame but its not really where I'm at now. Would just as easily read a book or be outside somewhere. 80's were the Oilers time I feel for our generation. What a time to be alive!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Disconnected thought and more catchup but winning both games in the BOA was kind of special both because it hasn't happened in awhile and because of the Flames being what they are and the Oilers being SC finalists. So that shelbyville is getting so absolutely trounced that they consider pregame splitsquad as their SC. Its hilarious, and it has to be mentioned. Didn't see anybody making those comments.

Calgary is going to have to invent another sport to get any upper hand. Pro Pickleball? pffffft

 

[yukoner88]

Disconnected thought and more catchup but winning both games in the BOA was kind of special both because it hasn't happened in awhile and because of the Flames being what they are and the Oilers being SC finalists. So that shelbyville is getting so absolutely trounced that they consider pregame splitsquad as their SC. Its hilarious, and it has to be mentioned. Didn't see anybody making those comments.

Calgary is going to have to invent another sport to get any upper hand. Pro Pickleball? pffffft

They could be the front runners in ball licking

 

[Drivesaitl]

They could be the front runners in ball licking

Or Lacrosse. lol. About what I think of Lacrosse. Is this why its called box lacrosse?

whoops, family site.