Value of: Oliver Kylington as an RFA

[CamPopplestone]

Lucic can't stay if you are keeping Gaudreau, Chucky, Mangi and Kylington.

Guess we'll have to see. Considering Mangiapane's agent is trying to convince him to take a one year deal then become a 27 year old UFA in 2023, if he goes that route, the Flames aren't going to back up the brinks truck for a one year deal. So I don't know if he'll be as high acap hot as many suspect

 

[SirloinUB]

They’ll have a lot of options if signing him becomes an issue. If we assume they’re losing JG, they might make a run at Kadri or Forsberg. If they can’t get one of those guys, which would be the likely result as there’s going to be bidding wars on those two, than they might start looking at their options here with Kylington. Almost regardless if they can sign him.

In a trade they can probably get a nice replacement for JG. A Bertuzzi type would be out there. They’d also probably be able to convince Detroit to take Monahan too, if it meant Kylington.

So even though they should do everything to keep him, teams would love to get their hands on him and it could kill 2-3 birds with one stone. Get themselves a really good player in his prime, while moving Monohan’s contract off the books, using that money to then use on another nice piece.

I don’t know what the exact parameters would be but using Detroit (who can take Monahan) as the example, they could probably even get Hronek to replace him if they include a nice prospect.

So Bertuzzi and Hronek for Kylington, Monahan and a Connor. Nothing retained on Monahan.

We have to assume that’s what teams think of Kylington right now. He’s the exact reason it’s scary giving up on young dmen. Anyone thinking adding Connor would nix the deal, your basically trading Kylington for Bertuzzi, then Monahan and Connor for Hronek and $6 million AAV.

That’s a good deal in the grand scheme of things. Especially for a team that’s close to a Cup. They could use that money on a really good player in UFA.

Easy pass from Detroit's perspective...

 

[Bank Shot]

Guess we'll have to see. Considering Mangiapane's agent is trying to convince him to take a one year deal then become a 27 year old UFA in 2023, if he goes that route, the Flames aren't going to back up the brinks truck for a one year deal. So I don't know if he'll be as high acap hot as many suspect

If Mangiapane choses arbitration the Flames won't have a choice. They'll have to pay him like a UFA.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Lucic can't stay if you are keeping Gaudreau, Chucky, Mangi and Kylington.

Exactly. Enjoy Gaudreau while you can...

 

[Captain Mountain]

Guess we'll have to see. Considering Mangiapane's agent is trying to convince him to take a one year deal then become a 27 year old UFA in 2023, if he goes that route, the Flames aren't going to back up the brinks truck for a one year deal. So I don't know if he'll be as high acap hot as many suspect

He's arbitration eligible coming off of at least a 35 goal season, he's not going to be cheap on a one term deal.

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Seider and Bertuzzi for a 5th

Seider would look great on the Oilers 2nd pair and Bertuzzi would give us another valuable top 6 piece.

This is assuming trades like the one I just quoted are the norm. Oilers want all over those. But not giving up our players of course.

Btw I’m a leafs fan not a redwings fan to me Monahan is a cap dump. Klyngton negates the negative value and brings back a 3rd

 

[Unbiased Fan]

Just F-ing awful. You do not trade a top 4 d-man, who is 24 years old and with lots more potential, to unload Monahan's cap. The Flames can just buy out Monahan.

If Kylington is going to Detroit, someone big is coming back (think Bertuzzi), not a frickin 3rd.

I didn’t think Klyington had that much more value then Travis Dermott in that proposal

 

[OG Eberle]

Btw I’m a leafs fan not a redwings fan to me Monahan is a cap dump. Klyngton negates the negative value and brings back a 3rd

My point is your value is brutal, regardless of who you're a fan of lmao

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Lucic can't stay if you are keeping Gaudreau, Chucky, Mangi and Kylington.

Sure he can, Calgary only needs to move out 1 of Monahan/Lucic to make the cap work

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I didn’t think Klyington had that much more value then Travis Dermott in that proposal

Dermott is barely a 3rd pair dman, if you think they have similar value you've been under a rock all season

 

[majormajor]

Is Kylington offer sheet eligible?

Would it be crazy to offer sheet him at $4m? The compensation is only a 2nd rounder.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Is Kylington offer sheet eligible?

Would it be crazy to offer sheet him at $4m? The compensation is only a 2nd rounder.

He is eligible until he files for Arbitration. Hague would probably be a better OS target though as Vegas has zero cap space to work with

 

[Bank Shot]

Sure he can, Calgary only needs to move out 1 of Monahan/Lucic to make the cap work

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (14)
Right wing: Matthew Tkachuk ($10,000,000) - Tyler Toffoli ($4,250,000) - Dillon Dubé ($2,300,000) - Ryan Carpenter ($750,000) - Brett Ritchie ($750,000)
Centre: Elias Lindholm ($4,850,000) - Mikael Backlund ($5,350,000) - Adam Ruzicka ($750,000) - Glenn Gawdin ($750,000) - Trevor Lewis ($750,000)
Left wing: Johnny Gaudreau ($11,000,000) - Blake Coleman ($4,900,000) - Milan Lucic ($5,250,000) - Jakob Pelletier ($863,333)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: Rasmus Andersson ($4,550,000) - Christopher Tanev ($4,500,000) - Michael Stone ($750,000)
Left: Noah Hanifin ($4,950,000) - Juuso Välimäki ($1,550,000) - Connor Mackey ($912,500) - Kevin Gravel ($750,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
Jacob Markström ($6,000,000) - Daniel Vladar ($750,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 23
Salary Cap: $82,500,000
Cap Hit: $77,225,833
Cap Space: $5,274,167

I don't see how it's feasible.

If you subtract the two players Mangiapane and Klyington would replace, the Flames would have $7 million.

Mangiapane @ $5 and Klyington @ $2 would give the Flames effectively zero in cap space. Something has to give. Flames need to get rid of Monahan and Lucic.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (14)
Right wing: Matthew Tkachuk ($10,000,000) - Tyler Toffoli ($4,250,000) - Dillon Dubé ($2,300,000) - Ryan Carpenter ($750,000) - Brett Ritchie ($750,000)
Centre: Elias Lindholm ($4,850,000) - Mikael Backlund ($5,350,000) - Adam Ruzicka ($750,000) - Glenn Gawdin ($750,000) - Trevor Lewis ($750,000)
Left wing: Johnny Gaudreau ($11,000,000) - Blake Coleman ($4,900,000) - Milan Lucic ($5,250,000) - Jakob Pelletier ($863,333)

DEFENSE (7)
Right: Rasmus Andersson ($4,550,000) - Christopher Tanev ($4,500,000) - Michael Stone ($750,000)
Left: Noah Hanifin ($4,950,000) - Juuso Välimäki ($1,550,000) - Connor Mackey ($912,500) - Kevin Gravel ($750,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
Jacob Markström ($6,000,000) - Daniel Vladar ($750,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 23
Salary Cap: $82,500,000
Cap Hit: $77,225,833
Cap Space: $5,274,167

I don't see how it's feasible.

If you subtract the two players Mangiapane and Klyington would replace, the Flames would have $7 million.

Mangiapane @ $5 and Klyington @ $2 would give the Flames effectively zero in cap space. Something has to give. Flames need to get rid of Monahan and Lucic.

How does your math even work here? You already have a 23 man roster and want to add 2 more players, that would make it a 25 man roster. So lets remove 2 players making 750k each for arguments sake

$5,274,167 + $1,500,000 = $6,774,167

$6,774,167 - $5,000,000 - $2,000,000 = -$225,833

That's literally a difference of either running a 22 man roster or removing your bias and not overpaying Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

 

[Bank Shot]

How does your math even work here? You already have a 23 man roster and want to add 2 more players, that would make it a 25 man roster. So lets remove 2 players making 750k each for arguments sake

$5,274,167 + $1,500,000 = $6,774,167

$6,774,167 - $5,000,000 - $2,000,000 = -$225,833

That's literally a difference of either running a 22 man roster or removing your bias and not overpaying Gaudreau and Tkachuk.

That's why I wrote this:

If you subtract the two players Mangiapane and Klyington would replace, the Flames would have $7 million.

What bias? One is finishing top 3 in scoring and the other top ten. You are expecting team friendly deals. I am expecting them to ask for top ten salaries commensurate with their results.

Teams don't really run 22 man rosters, and you can't realistically start a season with $200,000 in cap space. Short term injuries add to cap expended. I also gave Mangiapane and Klyington conservative salaries. Very unlikely to me that Kylington gets only $2 million after a season playing top four with good results.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

That's why I wrote this:

If you subtract the two players Mangiapane and Klyington would replace, the Flames would have $7 million.

What bias? One is finishing top 3 in scoring and the other top ten. You are expecting team friendly deals. I am expecting them to ask for top ten salaries commensurate with their results.

Teams don't really run 22 man rosters, and you can't realistically start a season with $200,000 in cap space. Short term injuries add to cap expended. I also gave Mangiapane and Klyington conservative salaries. Very unlikely to me that Kylington gets only $2 million after a season playing top four with good results.

Where have you been the last 3 years, 2 years ago before covid, Toronto literally ran a 21 man roster when healthy, last year nearly every team ran a 20 man roster to abuse the taxi squad, this year Tampa has run a 21-22 man roster all year. These are just a couple examples of the many teams that have run less than 23 players over the last few years.

As for your bias, you keep saying things like "them to ask for top ten salaries." That is once again not how that works, AAV's are just that AAV's. For example Shea Weber's contract is the highest paying contract in the entire NHL due to the term. Crosby is #2, and McDavid is #3. Panarin might have the 2nd highest AAV but that doesnt make him the 2nd highest paid player. On an 8 year deal He should certainly come in at a lower AAV than Panarin

 

[Some Other Flame]

He's the 3rd or 4th biggest priority this off season and he's going to get a fairly decent raise on what he's makes now. Solid top four almost all year. The only exception being when he was very obviously injured but played through it anyway because the Flames as an organization like to encourage that kind of irresponsible behavior.

Him passing through waivers a year prior is not in any way shape or form indicative of his current value. It just highlights how dumb the GM's in this league are.

But if/when the Flames dump Monahan, Lucic, & Valimaki's contracts, they won't have a problem re-signing all their key players.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Is Kylington offer sheet eligible?

Would it be crazy to offer sheet him at $4m? The compensation is only a 2nd rounder.

Devils should be all over that. He's easily worth 5+ on a long term deal.

 

[Double Dion]

Devils should be all over that. He's easily worth 5+ on a long term deal.

I'm a big fan of Kylington. That said, I would not give him 5+ on a long term deal. That's more than Andersson. If that's the price I'd let him walk and take the picks. Mackey will be pretty good too I think. I'd like to get him signed to either a cheap 1 year deal (and re-upping after Monahan and Lucic expire) or long term at 3.5ish. He's an excellent break out guy and defends well in transition. He does get a little lost below the faceoff dot occasionally still though.

I can't see a team offersheeting higher than the 4.11M AAV level. Especially NJD. Their 1st and 3rd would be a pretty nice haul.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'm a big fan of Kylington. That said, I would not give him 5+ on a long term deal. That's more than Andersson. If that's the price I'd let him walk and take the picks. Mackey will be pretty good too I think. I'd like to get him signed to either a cheap 1 year deal (and re-upping after Monahan and Lucic expire) or long term at 3.5ish. He's an excellent break out guy and defends well in transition. He does get a little lost below the faceoff dot occasionally still though.

I can't see a team offersheeting higher than the 4.11M AAV level. Especially NJD. Their 1st and 3rd would be a pretty nice haul.

I see him as a solid 2/3 at worst. Considering the market for dmen like that (Nurse lol), Kylington is definitely worth it to me.

 

[Double Dion]

I see him as a solid 2/3 at worst. Considering the market for dmen like that (Nurse lol), Kylington is definitely worth it to me.

I think 2/3 is a fair assessment. I see him as a 3 with upside. Just wondering if you think it's worth it to surrender a 1st and 3rd for the Devils and pay 4.11+ for him? That's a lot to give up.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think 2/3 is a fair assessment. I see him as a 3 with upside. Just wondering if you think it's worth it to surrender a 1st and 3rd for the Devils and pay 4.11+ for him? That's a lot to give up.

All day long. Young D with his raw skillset don't come along too often.

 

[Double Dion]

All day long. Young D with his raw skillset don't come along too often.

I'd make that deal I think. We can't pay him 5M. He's got to come in at less than that to fit in our salary structure. The 1st, 3rd and Mackey being ready would soften the blow...

 

[Bank Shot]

Where have you been the last 3 years, 2 years ago before covid, Toronto literally ran a 21 man roster when healthy, last year nearly every team ran a 20 man roster to abuse the taxi squad, this year Tampa has run a 21-22 man roster all year. These are just a couple examples of the many teams that have run less than 23 players over the last few years.

Fair enough. If you think Calgary is going to run a 21 man roster and 8-10 guys on league minimum, and get hometown discounts on all their guys then it's possible they keep Lucic and don't lose any of their four key re-signs.

As for your bias, you keep saying things like "them to ask for top ten salaries." That is once again not how that works, AAV's are just that AAV's. For example Shea Weber's contract is the highest paying contract in the entire NHL due to the term. Crosby is #2, and McDavid is #3. Panarin might have the 2nd highest AAV but that doesnt make him the 2nd highest paid player. On an 8 year deal He should certainly come in at a lower AAV than Panarin

Panarin didn't have a top ten finish in league scoring when he signed his contract. I predicted Gaudreau lower than Panarin at $11 million X 8.

You think he's going to come in under $10 million?

Tkachuk is also going to get less than $10 million? Tkachuk will take less than Marner?

 

[Double Dion]

Fair enough. If you think Calgary is going to run a 21 man roster and 8-10 guys on league minimum, and get hometown discounts on all their guys then it's possible they keep Lucic and don't lose any of their four key re-signs.

Panarin didn't have a top ten finish in league scoring when he signed his contract. I predicted Gaudreau lower than Panarin at $11 million X 8.

You think he's going to come in under $10 million?

Tkachuk is also going to get less than $10 million? Tkachuk will take less than Marner?

I wouldn't hesitate to pay Gaudreau 11M. I don't want to pay Tkachuk more than 9.5M. If it's more than that I'd be trading him. He's great inside the tops of the circles in both ends and useless outside of those areas. If we lose Gaudreau we are rebuilding. I also question if Tkachuk wants to be here long term and I don't question that with Gaudreau.