Player Discussion Olen Zellweger

[Hockey Duckie]

Having the 2nd worst record to get the 2nd highest pick in the 2nd round of 2021 to draft Zellweger really paid off i think, its like having an extra 1st round pick when its that high of a 2nd rounder.

Imagine if years ago Edmonton did better with its 2nd round picks when it was drafting #1 overall every other year.

I think the 2021 class is better than projected.

At 34th overall, Anaheim had a couple of good choices.

I wanted 6'2 RD Scott Morrow. Morrow finished 2nd in the NCAA in rookie defensive scoring behind Luke Hughes. Morrow had 33 points in 37 games. Hughes had 39 points in 41 games. Morrown went 40th overall.

In the draft video following the Ducks draft team, they had a discussion between two players to pick with their 2nd round pick: a falling player or a rising player? The only falling player of note was Aatu Raty. Raty went 52nd overall.

The rising player, of course, was Zellweger. Then GM Murray said Zell could be the PP1 QB. He said this after drafting Drysdale the year before.

 

[duckpuck]

We need a new rule that each year a team gets to select one prospect who can go to AHL no matter what their age is, which would be used on players who are too good for the juniors but team wants to develop them more before NHL.

Every team should have the absolute right to do this for one player AND the right to petition a to-be-established committee to do so for additional players. The developmental interests of the player should be paramount.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Every team should have the absolute right to do this for one player AND the right to petition a to-be-established committee to do so for additional players. The developmental interests of the player should be paramount.

I oppose.

32 NHL teams exercising this would potentially remove first two round talents per draft year. You can exclude goalies, NCAA bound prospects, and European players. The NCAA and European leagues can withstand losses fiscally, but the CHL cannot. Depriving the CHL of 32 top skating talents every year at a minimum is devastating for that league.

Also, you rob those prospects under 20 years of age of monies. If the CHL player is stashed in the minors, then they're making minor's money and not NHL pay. For example, Perreault makes $80 k in the AHL, but can make $833k in the NHL a year.

If the developmental interests of the players is paramount, then letting prospects develop physically until age 20 is a good thing. The NCAA does not play a lot of games compared to the CHL and that allows their players to bulk up more than the CHL players. I don't know why there's this need for an amendment for a couple of players who might physically be able to play in the AHL. Not all 32 prospects actually can thrive in the AHL.

 

[GunnarStahl]

I oppose.

32 NHL teams exercising this would potentially remove first two round talents per draft year. You can exclude goalies, NCAA bound prospects, and European players. The NCAA and European leagues can withstand losses fiscally, but the CHL cannot. Depriving the CHL of 32 top skating talents every year at a minimum is devastating for that league.

Also, you rob those prospects under 20 years of age of monies. If the CHL player is stashed in the minors, then they're making minor's money and not NHL pay. For example, Perreault makes $80 k in the AHL, but can make $833k in the NHL a year.

If the developmental interests of the players is paramount, then letting prospects develop physically until age 20 is a good thing. The NCAA does not play a lot of games compared to the CHL and that allows their players to bulk up more than the CHL players. I don't know why there's this need for an amendment for a couple of players who might physically be able to play in the AHL. Not all 32 prospects actually can thrive in the AHL.

How is it robbing them of money? ignoring the circumstances that led Perreault to the Gulls two years early, he would have made 0 dollars in Sarnia over the last two years, in salary, so not including signing bonus. Meanwhile due to him being able to play in the AHL early he has made ~160k in salary. And even got an NHL game and ~10k with that call up at least. So Perreault has made likely almost 200k more than he would have otherwise.

 

[GunnarStahl]

Also in terms of the CHL business side of things and the lost money from losing star players I have seen it proposed that NHL teams should compensate the CHL team affected.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I oppose.

32 NHL teams exercising this would potentially remove first two round talents per draft year. You can exclude goalies, NCAA bound prospects, and European players. The NCAA and European leagues can withstand losses fiscally, but the CHL cannot. Depriving the CHL of 32 top skating talents every year at a minimum is devastating for that league.

Also, you rob those prospects under 20 years of age of monies. If the CHL player is stashed in the minors, then they're making minor's money and not NHL pay. For example, Perreault makes $80 k in the AHL, but can make $833k in the NHL a year.

If the developmental interests of the players is paramount, then letting prospects develop physically until age 20 is a good thing. The NCAA does not play a lot of games compared to the CHL and that allows their players to bulk up more than the CHL players. I don't know why there's this need for an amendment for a couple of players who might physically be able to play in the AHL. Not all 32 prospects actually can thrive in the AHL.

Not every team has a 1st round pick player like McTavish who's too good for juniors and is going to the NHL because it's better for him than juniors since AHL is not an option for him, so in that scenario he'd wouldn't be playing for junior team either way.

Maybe limit it to where a team can only do it once every 3 years, must not be a nhl team that made the playoffs, limit it to 1st or 2nd round picks. So if some late round pick turns into a stud he's got to play In juniors til 20.

So playoff teams with good prospect pools would have to keep their 18y/19y prospects in juniors.

Perhaps add compensation to the junior team in the form of a choice of accept financialy compensation or a player being loaned to them who is agreeing to play for them but currently is a ncaa/Europe player. I'd loan colangelo for example in that scenario.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I still just have a hard time seeing how effective Olen can be at the NHL level. The size thing is still an issue for me. I get there are others here more optimistic, but I am trying to be realistic here

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I still just have a hard time seeing how effective Olen can be at the NHL level. The size thing is still an issue for me. I get there are others here more optimistic, but I am trying to be realistic here

I don’t think size is as big of an issue as some people on this board like to make it out to be.

 

[Quack Shot]

He’s the same size as Beauchemin… think he’ll be fine

 

[bsu]

He’s the same size as Beauchemin… think he’ll be fine

Beauchemin was so much smaller than I thought when I skated with him a couple years ago. Obviously buff but he is just not a very big guy. I'm not too worried about Zellweger height after seeing the obvious work he puts into getting stronger. He got huge in one season. I'm high on Zellweger he seems mature for a kid his age and has a good head on his shoulders. As I said previously he obviously takes the game serious and heard all the concerns about his size and got ripped. I don't need to say anything about his talent his game and numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Deuce22]

I still just have a hard time seeing how effective Olen can be at the NHL level. The size thing is still an issue for me. I get there are others here more optimistic, but I am trying to be realistic here

Krug, Girard, Makar, Fox, Q. Hughes, Barrie, Drysdale are all under 6'0." I think there is a precedent for the type of D man that Zellweger appears to be.

 

[Paul4587]

I certainly don’t think his size presents him from being a good NHLer. I think it could prevent him from being able to play tough minutes and it may be an issue in the postseason where size and reach is at such a premium. Girard is a very similar player and he has gotten absolutely abused in the postseason in his career to date.

He’s the same size as Beauchemin… think he’ll be fine

Is he actually? Beauchemin wasn’t a giant but it doesn’t look like Zellweger is nearly as big.

 

[duckpuck]

I oppose.

32 NHL teams exercising this would potentially remove first two round talents per draft year. You can exclude goalies, NCAA bound prospects, and European players. The NCAA and European leagues can withstand losses fiscally, but the CHL cannot. Depriving the CHL of 32 top skating talents every year at a minimum is devastating for that league.

Also, you rob those prospects under 20 years of age of monies. If the CHL player is stashed in the minors, then they're making minor's money and not NHL pay. For example, Perreault makes $80 k in the AHL, but can make $833k in the NHL a year.

If the developmental interests of the players is paramount, then letting prospects develop physically until age 20 is a good thing. The NCAA does not play a lot of games compared to the CHL and that allows their players to bulk up more than the CHL players. I don't know why there's this need for an amendment for a couple of players who might physically be able to play in the AHL. Not all 32 prospects actually can thrive in the AHL.

I don't see any way this costs the player money. The choice isn't the NHL vs. AHL. Its AHL vs junior hockey.

Beyond that, the final paragraph is just your opinion. McTavish would get little if anything out of going back to juniors. It would clearly be detrimental to his development - probably would develop bad habits (we started to see some of that already). And no one is saying all 32 prospects (I assume you're referring to the first round draft picks) would qualify for this status. One player per team plus any teams approved by a committee.

Your argument that it only impacts a few players doesn't offer much to those players. The rule serves only the economic interest of the junior hockey teams, to the detriment of some of the players. How would you feel if there were an arbitrary rule that prevented you from taking a job you want and are qualified for, where you could make a massive amount more money (AHL salary vs junior)? And on top of that, it allows the NHL clubs to defer the clock starting on entry level contracts.

Let the players play where they want.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I certainly don’t think his size presents him from being a good NHLer. I think it could prevent him from being able to play tough minutes and it may be an issue in the postseason where size and reach is at such a premium. Girard is a very similar player and he has gotten absolutely abused in the postseason in his career to date.



Is he actually? Beauchemin wasn’t a giant but it doesn’t look like Zellweger is nearly as big.

I won't buy it until Zellweger drops Iginla with a left jab.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I still just have a hard time seeing how effective Olen can be at the NHL level. The size thing is still an issue for me. I get there are others here more optimistic, but I am trying to be realistic here

Smaller d men do have more obstacles to overcome but he's just short, he seems to have no problem putting strength on

 

[FiveHoleTickler]

FWIW Hockeydb has Zell listed at 5'9" & 175lbs. Beauch was 5'11" 208lbs.

 

[Frosted Tips]

FWIW Hockeydb has Zell listed at 5'9" & 175lbs. Beauch was 5'11" 208lbs.

He was listed at 5'11" in the WJC roster by IIHF but I don't know if they typically measure over/under or at the same height as in the NHL

 

[Duck Off]

He’s the same size as Beauchemin… think he’ll be fine

No way. I think people are too harsh on Z because of his size, and I personally think he's easily our 2nd best prospect (behind McTavish), but Beauch was definitely bigger. Beauch was at least an inch or two taller, and much thicker. Z looks to be on the right track about bulking up though

 

[Kalv]

FWIW Hockeydb has Zell listed at 5'9" & 175lbs. Beauch was 5'11" 208lbs.

He was measured at 5`11, 187 at the WJC, which should be his latest measurement.

That being said, I don't buy those comparisons with Beauch. He was a different kind of an animal

 

[GreatBear]

Some sites do not update height and weight information. I always look at the latest measurement available, which is this case is the WJC figure.

 

[bsu]

Beauchemin is definitely a lot smaller than some of you think, that being said he played a lot bigger and was fearless.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

FWIW Hockeydb has Zell listed at 5'9" & 175lbs. Beauch was 5'11" 208lbs.

He was measured at 5`11, 187 at the WJC, which should be his latest measurement.

Here is Zell's updated bio from the August tourney, for those who want to see the source: link

He grew two inches and added 12 pounds?! Yes... yes... keep getting swole!

 

[Kalv]

Beauchemin is definitely a lot smaller than some of you think, that being said he played a lot bigger and was fearless.

Zell just isn't built like that and that's ok. I was pleasantly surprised how he is bulking up and even playing physical in some instances.

Edit: his WJC measurements are identical to current Cale Makars (on Elite Prospects)

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Stephane Robidas is 5'11 too and played bigger than his size.
He wasn't quite as strong as Beauch but he was faster.

 

[All Mighty]

He is finally 19.