Confirmed with Link: Oilers sign Connor Brown to 1-year incentive laden deal ($775K caphit, potentially $3.25M in bonuses)

[Drivesaitl]

If the cap increases as expected $5.5M is what a decent 2nd line/ 3rd line tweener will be getting. By the midpoint of the Nuge/Hyman deals the cap could be over $100M. Kane's deal ends the year after McDavid's deal is up. The buyout on the last year is small at $1.33M so there is very little risk in any of these contracts.

You and others have been saying the cap will continue to increase dramatically for years. Just saying. Its perhaps a fault of Holland and some other GM's that they just assumed cap would continue to increase unendingly and as @Whyme suggests this just seems to excuse poor negotiating, overpays, and careless bad contracts. Imagine having this degree of cap trouble on a team where two superstars are paid reasonably. McDrai contracts should allow the rest of the money to be spread out to a very good and deep team.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Hold on, hold on...

If you want to ascribe blame for cap situations and value created or lost, let's be balanced, shall we?

Here are the currently relevant messes that Holland created:
1) Nurse is $2M overpaid. We've all agreed on that. Many of us have also agreed he was over a barrel caused by Klefbom retiring and Larsson leaving in heartbreak.
2) Campbell is about $5M overpaid. This was a blown bet, no question. Who is our pro-level goaltending scout? His head should roll. Oh, we don't have one? Ok Kenny, you made your bet.

As for your other critiques above:
1) Ekholm has been a godsend, huge value created at the deadline using "rental like return" for a fair market contract with three more years on it. You MUST give huge props to Holland on this one or you just aren't being intellectually honest.
2) Bjugstad was a standard rental. 80% of those guys walk every summer. If Holland is doing his job, we should lose another guy like that next summer.
3) Kostin was conjured from Samorukov, don't forget that. Net neutral at worst. And bonus points for shedding Yamamoto with a guy we could not or would not resign. Once Kostin was asking for $2M he was worth zero to us, kudos for shedding Yamamoto along with him.

As for the rest of the cap mess, none of it and I mean ZERO was Holland's fault. Here are the guys we have signed for more than $1.5M.
Signed pre Holland: McDavid, Draisaitl
Signed by Holland: Nurse, RNH, Hyman, Kane, Ceci, Kulak, Skinner

Which of the guys signed pre-Holland should we cap dump? Right!

Which of the guys signed by Holland (other than Nurse, Campbell) are overpaid or huge mistakes? None!

The guy has made one terrible bet and one meaningful overpayment. In the grand scheme of things, compared to most GMs that's not that bad.

Others have outlined the other misses during the Holland era. No need to repeat them. I never mentioned Ekholm, I consider him a good add, but not convinced that we get the most out of any of Ekholm, Nurse, or other D with present schemes. Holland promoted the current coaching staff and reinstated them. Its a problem.

Bjugstad was a rare bottomsix player here that actually plays D and can prevent. Mostly we don't get those. Kostin and Bjugstad were our two best bottom players in time spent here. We lost both of them. In the case of Kostin we lost a highly ranked draft year player who is talented, has a shot, plays fierce. It matters not that we got him for Samu, its that once in awhile an asset falls in your lap because of another teams mistake, misuse of a player. When fortune smiles why kick it away. Kostin is a better player than anybody in our bottomsix. He could play topsix.

This hasn't been mentioned much but Hyman and Nuge, contracts also long and both ending as players are very advanced in hockey age. Sure we're seeing some bonus now at early pts in those contracts but the cost will be these likely being overpays as the players regress with age.

Indeed one of my biggest concerns right now is how much older the roster got in a short period of time. In the Fall this will be one of the oldest lineups in NHL and time ticking. its another reason why when you do get get young players that can play like Kostin you should keep them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

And yet you believe that trading Nurse or signing a $.775M player instead of Brown this year would encourage them to stay. Why do you even follow this team if you believe what you wrote.

Is it now a condition of this board that support of any move of the team need be absolute and we clap like seals?

Circumspection of this org and how its f***ed up even with the two greatest gifts in hockey is earned and warranted. Holland as well has lived his entire managerial career bumped up hard against cap and even putting teams on ice that were high priced and pretty bad. Welcome to yet another season of deckchairs and dressing less than full lineups just to fit under cap. Not even able to add anything appreciable if it even became available.

Try counting the total playoff game wins this org has in the McDrai arc and its pretty depressing. Take a look at playoff win % and its worse. Least we got to .500

We paid 5M longterm to Jack Campbell. Both teams we faced in the playoffs that had better goalies than us got them on the cheap. One of them won the Stanley Cup.

 

[bucks_oil]

The object of the game is to not give out bad contracts and then have to scramble or overpay to get rid of them. Sorry I am not patting Holland on the head for Kassian or Yamamoto. He was the author of both of those issues. Yamo, like a half dozen playere before him scored 20 solely becasue he hwas handed top two line minutes with the best players int he world, once moved from them he was a total non entity.

It's great that you like ceci and kulak half this forum wants to move on from them.

Hyman is not great value, sorry look at the term.

McDaivd and Draisaitl? not Holland.

One year away from having zero dead cap? Well we are also going to be paying 3.5 or so for Brown then as well.

This team needs to win a cup. Our biggest issue (goaltending) is being ignored by the management like it was with smith and koskinen.

Ryan? Again, no reason in the whole world to give him two years, none whatsoever. He is an older bottom of the roster player not difficult to replace he is at the take what we offer part of his career, like Janmark.

We have been scrounging for nickels for years cap wise now so the old excuse of 'oh it is only a million we can bury it!' comment does not wash with me.

1) I didn't say I "like" Ceci and Kulak. I said their contracts are fair value. Those contracts don't hurt us and... while yes, it would/will be nice to upgrade on them (I had a whole post about exactly that in this thread), there is no urgency to do so... in fact we are better keeping one of them (Ceci) until the deadline so that we don't have to carry the $6M upgrade for the full season... our team is strong enough to roll with Ceci until then and conserve cap space such that we can afford an Ekholm 2.0 upgrade. Shedding Ceci at 3.25 to a team with even less cap space, who is looking to upgrade their bottom pairing for the playoffs with a vet will be HAPPY to take him on.

2) Related to the above, a smart cap move would be to shed Kulak (I've said exactly that) and entrust Broberg. In years past that would be a crazy idea, but yeah... Holland has built enough depth in our D-core that we can shed a Kulak and still be just fine on our bottom pairing and ease in Broberg in an every-day role there. The mess he inherited would have had Kulak on the 2nd pairing.

3) Hyman isn't great value? You don't like the term four years from now when McDavid is in his thirties? Do you even understand what it takes to build a roster within a cap environment? Extending a longer term $5M contract to a guy who can command $6M on short term deal is one of the only levers you can pull as a GM if your goal is to concentrate talent and minimize cap hit during a window.

4) Your comment about Ryan just shows you don't understand the cap. You've got an above replacement level guy at a replacement level contract. You saved yourself $250K/year by offering a 2nd year. If he falls off the cliff, he's buried and is ZERO consequence cap wise. That's the definition of a NO RISK move. It's not "it's only a million, we can bury it", you should be saying "it's 900K, it saves us at least $250K vs fair value and if it doesn't work out, it ISN'T 900K, its ZERO". ZERO... say it again... if it doesn't work out it's ZERO consequence to our cap. ZERO.

5) Same with Janmark

6) Goaltending was not ignored, Holland/ProScouts/Campbell himself messed up. Big difference. I expect we take another crack at it this year if Campbell doesn't sort himself out.

7) You need a lesson in forest for the trees. Have you even looked at CapFriendly? There are 7 teams already above the cap, including: Toronto, LA, Colorado, Pittsburgh, Tampa and Vegas. CapFriendly - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

8) We have two players to sign. Latest I heard $3.85M for Bouchard and 1.8M for McLeod. Then we'll be capped out. But EVERYONE IS CAPPED OUT. Once Bouchard is signed we have our entire core locked up. We are tweaking around the edges. With a single smart move (see #2 above), we could be one of the ONLY CONTENDERS WITH CAP SPACE AT THE DEADLINE.

 

[bucks_oil]

Is it now a condition of this board that support of any move of the team need be absolute and we clap like seals?

Circumspection of this org and how its f***ed up even with the two greatest gifts in hockey is earned and warranted.

Circumspection: Attention to all the facts and circumstances of a case, and to natural or probable consequences, with a view to ascertain the correct or safe course of conduct or to avoid undesirable results;

Chiarelli:
2015: 0.427 WPCT, out of playoffs
2016: 0.628 WPCT, lost 2nd round
2017: 0.476 WPCT, out of playoffs
2018: 0.482 WPCT, out of playoffs
Roster in 2018 included: Chaisson, Lucic, Rattie(playing with McD), Caggiula, 0-goal Reider (playing with Drai), Gagner, Brodziak, Khaira, Currie, Spooner and Cave (may he RIP)... all playing at least 25 games with the big club. How many of those guys (at their 2018 playing ability) even make this team? Chaisson? That's 11 guys in significant roles... is it even more than one that would make our team now?

Holland:
2019: 0.585 WPCT, lost to a vet Chicago
2020: 0.643 WPCT, lost in round 1
2021: 0.634 WPCT, made semi final, lost to cup winner
2022: 0.665 WPCT, lost in 2nd round to cup winner
Roster in 2022 included: 13 guys with 10 or more goals, vs 6 in 2018

We haven't won it all yet. We are MILES closer due to the net results of Holland, despite the mess he inherited. That's fact.

I am circumspect of your objectivity.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Circumspection: Attention to all the facts and circumstances of a case, and to natural or probable consequences, with a view to ascertain the correct or safe course of conduct or to avoid undesirable results;

Chiarelli:
2015: 0.427 WPCT, out of playoffs
2016: 0.628 WPCT, lost 2nd round
2017: 0.476 WPCT, out of playoffs
2018: 0.482 WPCT, out of playoffs
Roster in 2018 included: Chaisson, Lucic, Rattie(playing with McD), Caggiula, 0-goal Reider (playing with Drai), Gagner, Brodziak, Khaira, Currie, Spooner and Cave (may he RIP)... all playing at least 25 games with the big club. How many of those guys (at their 2018 playing ability) even make this team? Chaisson? That's 11 guys in significant roles... is it even more than one that would make our team now?

Holland:
2019: 0.585 WPCT, lost to a vet Chicago
2020: 0.643 WPCT, lost in round 1
2021: 0.634 WPCT, made semi final, lost to cup winner
2022: 0.665 WPCT, lost in 2nd round to cup winner
Roster in 2022 included: 13 guys with 10 or more goals, vs 6 in 2018

We haven't won it all yet. We are MILES closer due to the net results of Holland, despite the mess he inherited. That's fact.

I am circumspect of your objectivity.

Gee, Holland is better than Chiarellia. When is the parade?

Chiarelli is the worst GM here I'd ever seen and was saying that in realtime. That Holland is better is no great shakes. Nobody argued otherwise. So I'm circumspect of the needless strawman argument.

Could even be said that an org that manages to single out doofus hires like Chiarelli and Nicholson, "to get it right this time" deserves what it gets.

Still waiting for the forensic top to down analysis, no stones unturned, on whats wrong with the org. heh

 

[McTonyBrar]

Gee, Holland is better than Chiarellia. When is the parade?

Chiarelli is the worst GM here I'd ever seen and was saying that in realtime. That Holland is better is no great shakes. Nobody argued otherwise. So I'm circumspect of the needless strawman argument.

Could even be said that an org that manages to single out doofus hires like Chiarelli and Nicholson, "to get it right this time" deserves what it gets.

Still waiting for the forensic top to down analysis, no stones unturned, on whats wrong with the org. heh

Are you ever happy?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Are you ever happy?

I was tempted when Yams was punted but then the news that Kostin was part of the *deal*. haha

I'm happy with this response.

 

[Anarchism]

Others have outlined the other misses during the Holland era. No need to repeat them. I never mentioned Ekholm, I consider him a good add, but not convinced that we get the most out of any of Ekholm, Nurse, or other D with present schemes. Holland promoted the current coaching staff and reinstated them. Its a problem.

Bjugstad was a rare bottomsix player here that actually plays D and can prevent. Mostly we don't get those. Kostin and Bjugstad were our two best bottom players in time spent here. We lost both of them. In the case of Kostin we lost a highly ranked draft year player who is talented, has a shot, plays fierce. It matters not that we got him for Samu, its that once in awhile an asset falls in your lap because of another teams mistake, misuse of a player. When fortune smiles why kick it away. Kostin is a better player than anybody in our bottomsix. He could play topsix.

This hasn't been mentioned much but Hyman and Nuge, contracts also long and both ending as players are very advanced in hockey age. Sure we're seeing some bonus now at early pts in those contracts but the cost will be these likely being overpays as the players regress with age.

Indeed one of my biggest concerns right now is how much older the roster got in a short period of time. In the Fall this will be one of the oldest lineups in NHL and time ticking. its another reason why when you do get get young players that can play like Kostin you should keep them.

Are you advocating for a change in Holland right now along with some of the staff?
IF so who do you suggest for replacements?

Obviously your not happy with some of the moves and/or lack thereof....
What moves would you have made or would make today?

Many of us have bemoaned Hollands lack of vision or desire or balls or talent in one form or another. What is your suggestion for the way forward? Im interested to hear.

 

[Jamin]

Teams get oiutcoached in the playoffs. Thats especially true when we are talking about very experienced coaching vs less experienced coaching. I have asked the question...why didnt Woody adjust to what Vegas was doing?
I would really like a reporter to ask that question.
All that aside...
What exactly did Campbell do to earn the benefit of the doubt from the coach?
Campbell didnt just fail this season he failed spectacularly. He tanked so thoroughly that I cant even remember a time when had happened before. Thats almost 45 years of history and I have seen virtually every moment and Campbell manged to surpass all of that history with his performance this season.
Putrid doesnt even begin to describe what he pulled off.

So its one thing to look back with 20/20 vision at what should have happened but lets not get carried away about what Campbell deserved. Based on his regular season performance (the only sample size that matters) he is lucky that the team didnt have the means to buy him out.

To play devils advocate Skinner had worse playoff stats then Campbell had regular season stats

 

[guymez]

To play devils advocate Skinner had worse playoff stats then Campbell had regular season stats

Thats debatable.

Honestly though I think that having to use a rookie goaltender in the playoffs because the 30+ year old veteran goaltender shit the bed (so badly during the regular season) should be embarrassing for the team and especially for Campbell himself.
So I am not the least bit worried about Skinner. He just needs some freaking help from the high paid vet so he isnt once again put into a situation he isnt ready for...like the playoffs.

Here's hoping that Campbell mans up and uses that failure as motivation to be at least an average goalie this upcoming season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Are you advocating for a change in Holland right now along with some of the staff?
IF so who do you suggest for replacements?

Obviously your not happy with some of the moves and/or lack thereof....
What moves would you have made or would make today?

Many of us have bemoaned Hollands lack of vision or desire or balls or talent in one form or another. What is your suggestion for the way forward? Im interested to hear.

Its always a disconnected exploration considering optimal org moves vs what has transpired.

Chiarelli started out with a forward group that already included McD, Drai, Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Perron in it. There should have been a cup somewhere in that topsix by now. Chia instead went scorched Earth rendering all the "what would you do now" after the fact.

Holland on the other hand has done what he always does push hard against cap, not be efficient with dollar cost negotiations, and painting himself in a corner.

My own team would included all the aforementioned players and including Talbot. There was several years to add to the allstar core and a lot of cap to do it and an owner that spared no expense.

In anycase what I would do now is identify goers vs passengers. That Hollands first couple moves of offseason was losing our two most effective bottom forwards isn't something that would have occurred if I had my way. I've also elaborated that it was incumbent on Holland to intervene in the utilization of his acquisition, Campbell, in the playoffs and the regular season. We're paying that guy 25M, giving him opportunities to find his game HAD to be occurring. This was a disaster in playoffs, that the coaches were stuck on one guy, and the ongoing fallout of that is we've basically said to Campbell that the org considers him unusable. Welcome to the next 4yrs of that contract..

On the latter point I'm not a big fan of micromanagement but no way I would have thrown the keys to an inexperienced coach in a limited time frame compete now window. people say "learning curve and mistakes" we don't have time for that. We needed a coach to hit the ground running and have the team prepared for playoffs. Its not what we've obtained.

New GM? Nah, we're kind of stuck now. 1-2yr compete window left, if that and the next GM is basically doing the after McDrai rebuild. This playoffs was best chance at now or never. The way I see it.

 

[duul]

And yet you believe that trading Nurse or signing a $.775M player instead of Brown this year would encourage them to stay. Why do you even follow this team if you believe what you wrote.

Always have and always will be an Oilers fan. Perhaps I'm a sort of masochist and the years of turmoil have become something I can live with. Why would I stop being a supporter of the team because two players are set to leave? Trust me, I tried following another team but it wasn't the same. It's Oilers forever in the duul household. How unfortunate!

All I do is offer my opinion on how I view the club and the decisions made in house. Perhaps I am more critical than most but that doesn't mean I am not a fan or that I should leave. It only means that I expect more from the highest paid GM in the league who is sewering the club with at least half of the signings he makes.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

To play devils advocate Skinner had worse playoff stats then Campbell had regular season stats

Skinner was thrust into the position because Campbell couldn't hold it together at any point during the regular season. Those wishing for a miracle turnaround were dreaming. He even speaks of how mentally fragile he is.

 

[duul]

Circumspection: Attention to all the facts and circumstances of a case, and to natural or probable consequences, with a view to ascertain the correct or safe course of conduct or to avoid undesirable results;

Chiarelli:
2015: 0.427 WPCT, out of playoffs
2016: 0.628 WPCT, lost 2nd round
2017: 0.476 WPCT, out of playoffs
2018: 0.482 WPCT, out of playoffs
Roster in 2018 included: Chaisson, Lucic, Rattie(playing with McD), Caggiula, 0-goal Reider (playing with Drai), Gagner, Brodziak, Khaira, Currie, Spooner and Cave (may he RIP)... all playing at least 25 games with the big club. How many of those guys (at their 2018 playing ability) even make this team? Chaisson? That's 11 guys in significant roles... is it even more than one that would make our team now?

Holland:
2019: 0.585 WPCT, lost to a vet Chicago
2020: 0.643 WPCT, lost in round 1
2021: 0.634 WPCT, made semi final, lost to cup winner
2022: 0.665 WPCT, lost in 2nd round to cup winner
Roster in 2022 included: 13 guys with 10 or more goals, vs 6 in 2018

We haven't won it all yet. We are MILES closer due to the net results of Holland, despite the mess he inherited. That's fact.

I am circumspect of your objectivity.

Trying to figure out how natural progression from a team that has two blossoming superstars is a 'got you' moment. Everyone knows Chiarelli is arguably the worst GM there is, a debate can be had of him vs Grier.

Nobody denies Holland is doing a better job than Chiarelli. The problem is that among the handful of solid moves he HAS made, are horrific, club crippling moves that have hindered what is possible to such a degree that it will be impossible to round out a championship calibre roster. Hell, we can't even field a full roster of players at this point. I'd like for you to tell me how many other clubs are in the same predicament without having won a Cup or at least be the favourites?

 

[Anarchism]

Its always a disconnected exploration considering optimal org moves vs what has transpired.

Chiarelli started out with a forward group that already included McD, Drai, Hall, Eberle, Nuge, Perron in it. There should have been a cup somewhere in that topsix by now. Chia instead went scorched Earth rendering all the "what would you do now" after the fact.

Holland on the other hand has done what he always does push hard against cap, not be efficient with dollar cost negotiations, and painting himself in a corner.

My own team would included all the aforementioned players and including Talbot. There was several years to add to the allstar core and a lot of cap to do it and an owner that spared no expense.

In anycase what I would do now is identify goers vs passengers. That Hollands first couple moves of offseason was losing our two most effective bottom forwards isn't something that would have occurred if I had my way. I've also elaborated that it was incumbent on Holland to intervene in the utilization of his acquisition, Campbell, in the playoffs and the regular season. We're paying that guy 25M, giving him opportunities to find his game HAD to be occurring. This was a disaster in playoffs, that the coaches were stuck on one guy, and the ongoing fallout of that is we've basically said to Campbell that the org considers him unusable. Welcome to the next 4yrs of that contract..

On the latter point I'm not a big fan of micromanagement but no way I would have thrown the keys to an inexperienced coach in a limited time frame compete now window. people say "learning curve and mistakes" we don't have time for that. We needed a coach to hit the ground running and have the team prepared for playoffs. Its not what we've obtained.

New GM? Nah, we're kind of stuck now. 1-2yr compete window left, if that and the next GM is basically doing the after McDrai rebuild. This playoffs was best chance at now or never. The way I see it.

I see this coming year and the next as at least in the finals.
But i dont see Holland making the necessary moves. Were close within a stones throw but need the last 3 or 4 moves, mostly affordable. Right now were about equal to where we were last year and we know Vegas will play the same against us again.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

You and others have been saying the cap will continue to increase dramatically for years. Just saying. Its perhaps a fault of Holland and some other GM's that they just assumed cap would continue to increase unendingly and as @Whyme suggests this just seems to excuse poor negotiating, overpays, and careless bad contracts. Imagine having this degree of cap trouble on a team where two superstars are paid reasonably. McDrai contracts should allow the rest of the money to be spread out to a very good and deep team.

Yeah Holland and all these gm’s are pretty dumb for not pricing in the government forcing society to shut down and then implementing rules that destroyed revenue for years causing a flat cap.

 

[Jamin]

Skinner was thrust into the position because Campbell couldn't hold it together at any point during the regular season. Those wishing for a miracle turnaround were dreaming. He even speaks of how mentally fragile he is.

Why not try it though. Best case he goes on a heater and gives the team solid goaltending. Worst case he plays like Skinner did in round 2.

I don't even like Campbell at all so dont take this as supporting him because he did have an awful regular season fully agree. But still think it would have been worth a shot to try as Skinner was clearly rattled by the end of round 2

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Skinner was thrust into the position because Campbell couldn't hold it together at any point during the regular season. Those wishing for a miracle turnaround were dreaming. He even speaks of how mentally fragile he is.

Fair point but like he said Skinner put up Campbell regular season numbers in the playoffs.

What’s the worst that could have happened? He lets in a bunch? Skinner was already doing that. If he screws up his chance you go back to Skinner.

I’m not saying Soup would have saved the day (he probably wouldn’t have) but we knew Skinner wasn’t working. At least give it a chance… crazier stuff has happened in the playoffs.

 

[Fourier]

Always have and always will be an Oilers fan. Perhaps I'm a sort of masochist and the years of turmoil have become something I can live with. Why would I stop being a supporter of the team because two players are set to leave? Trust me, I tried following another team but it wasn't the same. It's Oilers forever in the duul household. How unfortunate!

All I do is offer my opinion on how I view the club and the decisions made in house. Perhaps I am more critical than most but that doesn't mean I am not a fan or that I should leave. It only means that I expect more from the highest paid GM in the league who is sewering the club with at least half of the signings he makes.

I appreciate this answer and I should apologize for the tone of my post. . In reality I am not questioning your fandom despite what it might seem. The reason I asked the question is because your posts have become progressively more pessimistic. It is almost impossible to rationally debate some of the positions you are presenting because in response you seem to go even further into the abyss. You've been around here a long time and you and I have had a lot of discussions over the years. Frankly I don't ever remember your positions being nearly as extreme as they have been of late. I could understand it if we just watched this group finish bottom five in the league but they have clearly established themselves as one of the top teams in the league.

I desperately want them to take the next step, not just for myself but also so that younger posters here can experience what some of us old guys did. There is something great about being able to share that sort of success with others that is really tough to describe. But I also think that one has to be realistic. Holland has made mistakes that have limited his options and he has a certain style that frustrates me in that I don't believe that he is willing to really think outside the box in a manner that it might take to move forward in a big way. However, there is a big difference between that and equating a modest over pay of Nurse and a signing of Brown with the end of the world metaphorically. And to me your fatalistic post assuming that both McDavid and Draisaitl are gone is the Oilers equivalent of the end of the world. Do you honestly believe that this is where this team is right now? No hope? If so I really have a hard time seeing how you got there.

In any case, you are as entitled to your opinions as I am and to how you view the team. I am just having a really hard time seeing what you see.

 

[Fourier]

Is it now a condition of this board that support of any move of the team need be absolute and we clap like seals?

Circumspection of this org and how its f***ed up even with the two greatest gifts in hockey is earned and warranted. Holland as well has lived his entire managerial career bumped up hard against cap and even putting teams on ice that were high priced and pretty bad. Welcome to yet another season of deckchairs and dressing less than full lineups just to fit under cap. Not even able to add anything appreciable if it even became available.

Try counting the total playoff game wins this org has in the McDrai arc and its pretty depressing. Take a look at playoff win % and its worse. Least we got to .500

We paid 5M longterm to Jack Campbell. Both teams we faced in the playoffs that had better goalies than us got them on the cheap. One of them won the Stanley Cup.

There is a huge difference between being critical and being completely fatalistic. Are you of the opinion that this team is such a disaster that it is a foregone conclusion that Leon and McDavid are already gone? That was jist of the post you were responding to.

I would say that this team is on paper the best team that the Oilers have started a season with since the early 90's. It's far from perfect but it is also not some disaster to be written off. The NHL is very different than it was in the 80's. It is significantly harder to succeed than it was back then especially for a team in a Canadian market. If the difference between a cup winner and the Oilers is Jack Campbell then it tells you that this team is a lot closer to the top than the extreme pessimism around here might suggest.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I was tempted when Yams was punted but then the news that Kostin was part of the *deal*. haha

I'm happy with this response.

Lol I'm not happy Kostin is gone. I'm happy Yamo is gone because I love Connor Brown

 

[duul]

I appreciate this answer and I should apologize for the tone of my post. . In reality I am not questioning your fandom despite what it might seem. The reason I asked the question is because your posts have become progressively more pessimistic. It is almost impossible to rationally debate some of the positions you are presenting because in response you seem to go even further into the abyss. You've been around here a long time and you and I have had a lot of discussions over the years. Frankly I don't ever remember your positions being nearly as extreme as they have been of late. I could understand it if we just watched this group finish bottom five in the league but they have clearly established themselves as one of the top teams in the league.

I desperately want them to take the next step, not just for myself but also so that younger posters here can experience what some of us old guys did. There is something great about being able to share that sort of success with others that is really tough to describe. But I also think that one has to be realistic. Holland has made mistakes that have limited his options and he has a certain style that frustrates me in that I don't believe that he is willing to really think outside the box in a manner that it might take to move forward in a big way. However, there is a big difference between that and equating a modest over pay of Nurse and a signing of Brown with the end of the world metaphorically. And to me your fatalistic post assuming that both McDavid and Draisaitl are gone is the Oilers equivalent of the end of the world. Do you honestly believe that this is where this team is right now? No hope? If so I really have a hard time seeing how you got there.

In any case, you are as entitled to your opinions as I am and to how you view the team. I am just having a really hard time seeing what you see.

I don't disagree that we are in a spot that is above average in the league. However, when you have the leagues two best players, there is no excuse to not be a favourite or truly in the top two or three teams, where it would be a failure to not win a Cup. Does it feel like the team is in such a position? To me it doesn't. L.A. felt like a toss up, and Vegas was clearly a significantly better team.

There is no denying that the M.O. for this team is to have two players carry us while the entire rest of the roster tries their best to tread water. That will never be a recipe for success in the NHL. If this was the NBA I would be ecstatic about our club.

How many seasons need to go by where we see a teams depth shine through and be the difference maker in winning a Cup or not? Where a clubs third and fourth lines come through and help dominate games, coming up with huge goals and being the real engines of a club that get the top guys going too. Does it feel like that is going to ever take place in this club?

I'm of the opinion that We are built in a style opposite to what has traditionally been condusive to playoff success. We are shallow, slow, soft. The little amounts of physicality are completely besides Kane. Bjugstad and Kostin were two of the three physical players in the playoffs for us. We see these true contenders having huge outings and clutch goals from their role players, and we FINALLY saw something similar in our group with Bjugstad and Kostin last year. We saw McDrai both having the best ppg playoff performances in league history basically. This club does not need to cater to bringing in more guys to play with McDavid and Draisaitl. Those two handle themselves, how is that not obvious to some of you by now? My point being that it is an utter waste of resources to put 4 million into a guy who we don't need playing anywhere but the third line. We would have better off keeping Yamamoto and saving the million to spend elsewhere. I understand the point being Brown costs 775k this year, but it truly is a steep price to pay going forward. We've gone over this particular topic ad nauseum.

I'm of the opinion that anything less than a Cup is a failure with the two best players in the league. There is no excuse to be made. There is no 'oh but we've improved from being in the basement' excuse that will sate me. If this team isn't the favourite, something is wrong. If we aren't making finals, something is wrong. I am not content with us simply being improved and a playoff team. We are a playoff team, slotted into the top 16 in the league. Are we in the top 10? Maybe. Top 5? No chance. So how the f*** is that anywhere near acceptable given this is the only chance we're going to have for another few decades surely to make a true run. We were gifted two generational players and they're being pissed away by poor contract decisions and failures to address areas of need. It's as simple as that.

I understand that we have no cap space. I understand that given our cap situation that Brown was one of few options. I understand that the cap is rising next year. None of these are acceptable excuses for the position Holland has led us to. I don't care that he improved the team from the spot Chiarelli left it. His job, after being given the two best players on earth was to bring the city a championship. Does it feel like we are only one or two pieces away from that? Because it doesn't feel that way to me at all.

Until we get a defenceman better than anyone we currently have, and multiple upgrades to our middle and bottom 6 who can really push the pace in the playoffs and provide the energy and clutch goal scoring that every other possesses in forms of depth, the chances of us winning are zero. If some of you are content with being a playoff team that's fine, but it's championship or bust for me. We all want this club to win. Let's hold Holland accountable for the mess he has put this team in while simultaneously upgrading various positions. It can be both.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There is a huge difference between being critical and being completely fatalistic. Are you of the opinion that this team is such a disaster that it is a foregone conclusion that Leon and McDavid are already gone? That was jist of the post you were responding to.

I would say that this team is on paper the best team that the Oilers have started a season with since the early 90's. It's far from perfect but it is also not some disaster to be written off. The NHL is very different than it was in the 80's. It is significantly harder to succeed than it was back then especially for a team in a Canadian market. If the difference between a cup winner and the Oilers is Jack Campbell then it tells you that this team is a lot closer to the top than the extreme pessimism around here might suggest.

I do think that BOTH are gone after the respective contracts. Yes. Not unlike how things went down with the first superstar wave here. Edmonton is a sleepy outpost in the NHL and with the team not doing much why would either stay? Leon from several comments doesn't even care for Edmonton that much and Connor would probably want a cup or something before he's done. How depressing do you think it must be for these guys that even Matthew Tkachuk got to a SC final. Or that Mackinnon and company won it year prior. The only worse lot in superstar life exists in Toronto. That team never gets anything done either. Pay attention to Drai saying "another wasted season, completely wasted" What do you think he means? you think he's entirely happy with status quo ?

I was upbeat about the prospects of the club multiple seasons. I do feel this last playoffs and season was the buy all in season. From players to roster etc, the playoff version of the Oilers was the best team we iced. Now we've lost multiple players from even that lineup and possibly more. But more the case it was the window wide open to the cup season, and that isn't likely replicated. Its like Boston Bruins got their 1 cup in 2011 with an outlier open window in which their opponents were somehow the Vancouver Canucks. Of course that fortune was never repeated. Sometimes you get the one huge chance and thats it. Will be far harder to get to final or conference final in upcoming years than it was this year. Even if you think this team is better or best, the AV's will be now rested off an early playoff exit and are still class of conference that had their down year post cup Win, as many teams do, and suffered a lot of injuries. the Likelihood is that the AV's will again be in our path if we get that far.

 

[McDanglez]

So was there ever a definite answer whether we can trade Connor Brown at the end of the season to a team that can afford the Bonus overage for next year?

Example: Send Connor to Arizona for picks, ect. after playoffs and they absorb his cap hit next season. I guess the big question would be who pays the bonuses? This would obviously play a big factor in cost of trading him.