Proposal: Oilers/Rangers - Draisaitl for Shesterkin

[The Crypto Guy]

Both players can become UFAs after next season. So it will be a mystery bag if each player re-signs or not with their new team. Both will get paid big bucks in that contract.

Rangers would need to find goaltending, but can run with Quick for a bit.

Oilers instantly become cup favorites again with a real goalie, despite losing a big player. Rangers also improve if Quick can play solid again next year.

Win/Win for both? Or Lose/Lose?

Click to read more...

 

[Cenzo_]

Goalies don't hold that kind of value, even top 3 goalies

 

[JKG33]

Funny enough both teams are probably better off for it at least in the short term.

Rangers would need to find a competent goalie to play 40 games to keep Quick fresh, and then ride Quick in the playoffs

All the Oilers would need to do is let McD cheat offensively as much as he wants, play a competent team game otherwise, and trust the elite goalie to bail them out

 

[Kshahdoo]

Goalies don't hold that kind of value, even top 3 goalies

Yeah, especially in playoffs...

 

[tsujimoto74]

Yeah, especially in playoffs...

Feel free to find a single example in NHL history of a goalie returning anything close to Draisaitl (and go into that hunt knowing Hasek was traded twice and Roy once). Goalies don’t have that kind of trade value. That’s not to say they’re not important, it’s just a fact of the trade market.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Feel free to find a single example in NHL history of a goalie returning anything close to Draisaitl (and go into that hunt knowing Hasek was traded twice and Roy once). Goalies don’t have that kind of trade value. It’s just a fact.

How often are top 3 goalies traded to look at a sample size?

 

[Kelevra]

If EDM added skinner and NYR added Schneider I would do it as an EDM fan

 

[ElPrimeTime]

How often are top 3 goalies traded to look at a sample size?

He gave you three examples...

 

[CanadienShark]

Seems like a huge win for the Rangers. Goalies do not hold that type of value.

 

[EK392000]

If EDM added skinner and NYR added Schneider I would do it as an EDM fan

As an EDM fan, that’s all you’d want?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

He gave you three examples...

In the 107 year NHL history? Woah, quite the sample size.

One of those demanding a trade, other as a rental at the deadline, and the last before he was looked at as even a starting goalie. Bravo.

 

[Killer Orcas]

In the 107 year NHL history? Woah, quite the sample size.

One of those demanding a trade, other as a rental at the deadline, and the last before he was looked at as even a starting goalie. Bravo.

You could look at it from the other side and show one example where a goalie was traded for a 1C? Pretty sure never happened in 107 years is that a better sample size?

 

[bernmeister]

Both players can become UFAs after next season. So it will be a mystery bag if each player re-signs or not with their new team. Both will get paid big bucks in that contract.

Rangers would need to find goaltending, but can run with Quick for a bit.

Oilers instantly become cup favorites again with a real goalie, despite losing a big player. Rangers also improve if Quick can play solid again next year.

Win/Win for both? Or Lose/Lose?

I propped this, don't remember, wanna say 1x ea. last 2 off seasons.
Not 1:1, Rangers modest add

Since then we see both teams have extreme swings.

In sense that Oil have McD to fall back on, and otherwise sufficient scoring, it is depth for need.

Rs have Garand and can gamble he can be expedited to backup behind Quick then starter, w/Domingue in the equation as needed.

Big risk, big reward x 2.

If I thought he'd waive -- and no reason to think he would and he currently has ironclad full NMC -- adding Zib and then something nice from EDM would better balance it...

but there is enuf to justify 1:1.

Goalies don't hold that kind of value, even top 3 goalies

Disagree.

Funny enough both teams are probably better off for it at least in the short term.

Rangers would need to find a competent goalie to play 40 games to keep Quick fresh, and then ride Quick in the playoffs

All the Oilers would need to do is let McD cheat offensively as much as he wants, play a competent team game otherwise, and trust the elite goalie to bail them out

This would force us to use talented Garand, break him on his elc.
Of course, you give up possibly league's best G in Shesty, but that is countered by adding Dra

Feel free to find a single example in NHL history of a goalie returning anything close to Draisaitl (and go into that hunt knowing Hasek was traded twice and Roy once). Goalies don’t have that kind of trade value. That’s not to say they’re not important, it’s just a fact of the trade market.

Let's assume you are correct.

1. There is a first time for everything, does not mean even if you are illustrating a virtual 'rule' there is no, and will never be an, exception to/proving the rule.

2. Not so much dat wuz den an dis is now,
BUT
All deals MUST be cap compliant
Almost zero workarounds and those are temporary.

So while I'm not accusing you of being a smartass, I am saying, respectfully, consider your premise is exacerbated by cap.

It is hard to have a monster haul returned for ANYBODY -- G or otherwise -- b'c cap needs to be maintained in short order.


3. Given #2 above makes it more difficult to add more pieces in a single deal [w/o workaround of multiple deals] you still need to wind up cap balanced after all transactions.

This is a unique situation of a stud for a stud, basically

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You could look at it from the other side and show one example where a goalie was traded for a 1C? Pretty sure never happened in 107 years is that a better sample size?

Yes top 3 goalies are never traded. This was just a fun what if proposal.

 

[TheBeard]

Little known fact: Jonathan Quick is 112 years old.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Not interested.

We've made the Stanley Cup Final with the team we've got. Absolutely zero need to blow it up by dealing a huge piece like Draisaitl.

We need a general manager that can make the upgrades we need without doing something stupid like this.

 

[Stickpucker]

I think Zibenijad, Kreider, or Trocheck need to be going back to Edmonton and Campbell or Skinner need to go to NYR.

 

[ViD]

I think Zibenijad, Kreider, or Trocheck need to be going back to Edmonton and Campbell or Skinner need to go to NYR.

Exactly

NYR C depth is already good with Mika/Trocheck, one of them has to go

 

[n8]

Feel free to find a single example in NHL history of a goalie returning anything close to Draisaitl (and go into that hunt knowing Hasek was traded twice and Roy once). Goalies don’t have that kind of trade value. That’s not to say they’re not important, it’s just a fact of the trade market.

That's a bit of a logical fallacy saying that because there is no data to support the claim that it is automatically false. There have been big trades but yes, I can't think of any one for one super star forward for super star goalie trades, both 1 year from UFA. Are you a Texas Sharpshooter?

You can look at similar caliber trades that don't have the exact formula in the OP.

Tkachuk <--> Huberdeau, Weegar, Cole Schwindt + 1st
Marty St Louis + 2nd <--> Ryan Callahan + 1st + 1st + 7th
Roenick <--> Zhamnov + Craig Mills + 1st
Paul Coffey, Keith Primeau + 1st <--> Shanahan, Brian Glenn
Mark Messier <--> Bernie Nicholls, Louie DeBrusk, Steven Rice
Bernie Nicholls <--> Tony Granato, Tomas Sandstrom
Ron Francis, Ulf Samuelsson, Grant Jennings <--> John Cullen, Zarley Zalapski, Jeff Parker
Artemi Panarin, Tyler Motte + 6th <--> Brandon Saad, Anton Forsberg + 5th
Joe Thornton <--> Wayne Primeau, Brad Stuart, Marco Sturm
Jarome Iginla + Corey Millen <--> Joe Nieuwendyk (Iginla was still in juniors but was coming off a 136 season)
Alexei Yashin <--> Jason Spezza, Zdeno Chara, Bill Muckalt
Ryan McDonagh + JT Miller <--> Vlad Namenstnikov, Brett Howden, Libor Hajek + 1st + 2nd
Jeff Carter <--> Voracek + 1st + 3rd
Jean Ratelle, Brad Park, Joe Zanussi <--> Phil Esposito, Carol Vadnais

Trades with big goalies
Ryan Miller + Ott <--> Halak, Chris Stewart, William Carrier + 1st + 3rd
Roberto Luongo, Lukas Krajicke, + 6th <--> Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, Alex Auld
Curtis Joseph + Mike Grier <--> 1st + 1st
Ed Belfour <--> Ulf Dahlen, Michael Sykora, Chris Terrari, 1st
Patrick Roy, Mike Keane <--> Andrei Kovalenko, Martin Rucinsky, Jocelyn Thibault
Grant Fuhr <--> Dave Andreychuk, Daren Puppa, 1st
Nikolai Khabibulin, Stan Neckar <--> Mike Johnson, Paul Mara, Ruslan Zaynullin + 2nd

You can make an argument of which ones are closest to these two players. Based off of these many comparable examples that involve players of comparable caliber to Draisaitl and taking the side of forwards being more valuable, you might argue that NYR would add a bit more.

If EDM added skinner and NYR added Schneider I would do it as an EDM fan

^This for example is a reasonable counter offer.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Not a chance I’d do that. Great goalie but they don’t hold that kind of trade value and any deal around Draisaitl would have to include an extension. An extended Draisaitl is worth a crippling amount in a trade.

Neither club looks at this without extensions. To even suggest both clubs roll the dice on a franchise altering swap without them sign and sealed is moronic.

 

[Larry Hanson]

Huberdeau + Weegar <--> Tkachuk

I stopped reading here, Calgary also got a prospect and a 1st round pick.
Not sure if the other stuff you listed is accurate?

 

[Toby Flenderson]

2 things:

Zib needs to go the other way as well and it only makes sense if they both agree to extensions.

Zib + Shesterkin for Drai + Skinner

Seems like a very fair deal all around

 

[n8]

I stopped reading here, Calgary also got a prospect and a 1st round pick.
Not sure if the other stuff you listed is accurate?

Oh yeah, that's the first I wrote. I will make a correction.

 

[RogerRoger]

That's a bit of a logical fallacy saying that because there is no data to support the claim that it is automatically false. There have been big trades but yes, I can't think of any one for one super star forward for super star goalie trades, both 1 year from UFA. Are you a Texas Sharpshooter?

You can look at similar caliber trades that don't have the exact formula in the OP.

Huberdeau + Weegar <--> Tkachuk
Roberto Luongo <--> Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan Allen, Alex Auld
Marty St Louis + 2nd <--> Ryan Callahan + 1st + 1st + 7th
Ryan McDonagh + JT Miller <--> Vlad Namenstnikov, Brett Howden, Libor Hajek + 1st + 2nd
Ryan Miller + Ott <--> Halak, Chris Stewart, William Carrier + 1st + 3rd
Jeff Carter <--> Voracek + 1st + 3rd
Roenick <--> Zhamnov + Craig Mills + 1st
Jarome Iginla + Corey Millen <--> Joe Nieuwendyk (Iginla was still in juniors but was coming off a 136 season)
Paul Coffey, Keith Primeau + 1st <--> Shanahan, Brian Glenn
Mark Messier <--> Bernie Nicholls, Louie DeBrusk, Steven Rice
Yashin <--> Spezza, Chara
Ron Francis, Ulf Samuelsson, Grant Jennings <--> John Cullen, Zarley Zalapski, Jeff Parker

You can make an argument of which ones are closest to these two players. Based off of these many comparable examples that involve players of comparable caliber to Draisaitl and taking the side of forwards being more valuable, you might argue that NYR would add a bit more.

^This for example is a reasonable counter offer.

Panthers Bruins agreed on a Luongo for Thornton trade, it was nixed at the last moment by the Panthers' owner being unwilling to pay Thornton's big salary. When the closest trade isn't even an actual trade, you really don't have a precedent.

 

[n8]

Panthers Bruins agreed on a Luongo for Thornton trade, it was nixed at the last moment by the Panthers' owner being unwilling to pay Thornton's big salary. When the closest trade isn't even an actual trade, you really don't have a precedent.

What's important is that two GMs agreed on the value and we can have a conversation around what we think a trade based around Shesterkin / Draisaitl would look like. The owner veto things is really just outside of the core sport discussion and really a business matter. In today's world though, we see this less because of the cap.