Confirmed with Link: Oilers hire Stan Bowman as GM & Executive VP- press conference at 10:30

[CycloneSweep]

This is what 99% of people would do, which is why I find the armchair QBing of this so grating. Going over your bosses head, especially for something this sensitive is not something people do no matter how much they claim that wouldn’t be the case as they call shots from the cheap seats.

Was the mantra of “following the chain of command isn’t sufficient in cases of sexual assault” even a thing 14 years ago?

I think the issue I have is I remember the world in 2010. I remember how people felt about sexual assault. Vast majority of people didn’t take it seriously. Sexual assault of a male? Even less serious. Holding peoples past actions to today’s standards ignores how things were.

Does it make the actions okay? No, he should have done more, but people need to stop acting like almost everyone would have acted different 14 years ago.

At the end of the day back in 2010 an allegation was made, his boss said he would take care of it. And then a few months later the person accused was off the team. For almost every single person 14 years ago they wouldnt have thought twice and I f***ing know this for a fact knowing multiple people who were sexually assaulted back then and everything they faced. The world was a very different place even 14 years ago.

You know you don't have to defend the guy and downplay all of the awful things he did just because he's apart of the Oilers now, right?

I've always found that sort of behaviour weird when it comes to sports fans. Very tribalistic like politics.

I think in this case it’s far less downplaying and more actually looking at what actually happened and reacting.

Shit, I still don’t like that we signed Kane. He has been good for us and seems to not be on bad behaviour but the amount of things he was accused of, by multiple people? Still don’t like it.

The all or nothingness of people in 2024 is unfortunate as a whole. Zero nuance, zero actual evaluation. Someone is either a saint or literally Satan.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

This seems like an avoidable uproar but it is what it is. His statement that he spoke with Beach about accepting the job and the words of :Sheldon Kennedy have some weight that make the frog a bit easier to swallow.

 

[Arpeggio]

Nice try.

For what it's worth I don't buy that for a second. He'll say that to protect his players, but I just can't see them operating that way. But I could be wrong.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Here's the thing though, what was true then, is not even true today. Nobody would ever suggest a sexual assault be investigated internally now, and that was one of the recommendations. There are some laws that make disclosure mandatory now, but there was not then, anywhere, which is why they did nothing wrong. 15 years ago the majority of experts still believed a victim could be expected to advocate for themselves, but know we know better.

I have deep experience and knowledge of policy and laws on this topic and what Bowman alluded to in the presser, that it's hard to believe someone you know could so something like this, is the endpoint of 99.9% of investigations. It shows he understands the reasons for the mistakes, which is rare.

Ultimately, they were faced with two people saying two different things. When you don't have all the information, it's very hard to ruin someone's life based on a belief. That's why disclosure needs to happen, so people with inherent biases are not tasked with making decisions.

A lawyer today, would speak entirely different, because that is how much this field has grown. Lots of people in this thread are viewing past events with knowledge of current norms and practices, that did not exist 15 years. Even the investigation post event would be considered passe, which shows how quickly things have moved. 15 years ago there was no good policy, laws, or theory to fall back on, everyone had to figure it out themselves.

The crazy thing is if all this came out even in 2012, Bowman and Quenneville wouldnt of lost their jobs and a slight slap on their wrist.
People didn’t even really take any of this seriously until the whole #MeToo got huge in 2017, hell I didn’t tell anyone about mine till 2020.

 

[TheNumber4]

This quote (sourced from Wikipedia) is being floated around twitter and in this thread:

"The lead investigator stated that Bowman's failure to report the alleged assault eventually led to the perpetrator committing further acts of sexual abuse."

That's a mischaracterization of what was actually said in the report. This was actually what was said:

"McDonough did nothing to address the allegations until June 14, when he reported the information to the Director of Human Resources. While there was a lack of recollection as to whether anyone else present in the meeting besides McDonough needed to or would take any additional steps, nothing was done by the other senior leaders to address the situation.

As a result, the Blackhawks’ own sexual harassment policy—which required investigation of all reports of sexual harassment to be conducted “promptly and thoroughly”—was violated. The failure to promptly and thoroughly investigate the matter and the decision to take no action from May 23 to June14 had consequences. During that period, Aldrich continued to work with andtravel with the team. Aldrich engaged in an unwanted sexual advance on aBlackhawks intern—physically grabbing the intern in a sexual manner. AndAldrich continued to participate in team activities and celebrations, in thepresence of John Doe."

The lead investigator didn't put it on Bowman exclusively. If you believe Chevy and Bowman that Mcdonagh took the lead on this (and he was the one to report it eventually to HR, confirming this), then the negligence or lack of investigation was primarily done by Mcdonagh and the HR dept, not Bowman.

 

[Aerchon]

JJ fits right in the Oilers. This has the stink of Kevin Lowe and all that was wrong with the organization for so long.

Always trying so hard to be the smartest in the room they end up tripping and falling on their face.

Mediocre hockey move at best. Focus on "knows a thing or two to win championships" and ignores everything else no matter how bad.

PR nightmare. Can seriously impact resigning McDrai.

So obviously dumb I just can't understand how anyone can be that stupid.

Upper management... No offense to any reading this who is but... so strange how dumb this move is... only an out of touch upper management type could even remotely think this is even an acceptable signing.

Someone needs to modify a dumb and dumber gif with the redemption line.

 

[CycloneSweep]

At the end of the day my last real thoughts about this is Stan Bowman should work in the NHL again but not as a GM. He would be best suited to be a league advisor who works with teams to help address the systemic flaws that lead to things like this happening and not being properly reported. Having made the mistake in the past and his recent work with the Respect project and Kennedy and really having been a long time GM, I think he is uniquely qualified to do so.

I don’t think he should be an NHL GM however as his work for the last few years of his career was quite awful.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

So here is the scenario:

You and your boss are made aware that someone who works under you has sexually assaulted someone they are in a position of power over.

Over the next few days or weeks you show up to work and the person who sexually assaulted that person is still working and is still in a position where they could potentially interact with the person they victimized. No suspension pending an investigation. Nothing. Just business as usual until the important project is completed?

You’re just going to be quiet about that and let it proceed?

I’ve thought about this all day trying to imagine what I’d do in his situation and first in regard to your statement the distinction needs to be made that at the point Bowman is made aware, it’s an allegation, him and his boss have received possibly vague information that a sexual assault by a staff member on a player had possibly occured. If my boss told me he was going to look into it and handle it, I would take that at face value and trust that he’d follow the proper protocols but I don’t think I could go weeks without knowing what came of that. If after a couple days Aldrich was still showing up and it was business as usual, I’d probably bring it up with McDonough and get some answers about the situation and likely insist that Aldrich be quietly put on leave and a quiet but thorough investigation be initiated. If still nothing happened I’d probably go to Beach myself with the team therapist and get his side of the story right from him and then bring it directly to HR.

Just ignoring it was a huge risk for them because it really could have blown up if Beach went to the police or went to someone else in the organization. But I don’t think he wanted this coming out while they were playing in the cup final. They should have been in contact with Beach and quietly put Aldrich on leave. At least get the accused out of the picture until you can investigate properly.

Do you feel the same about the skating coach, the mental skills coach and Cheveldayoff as you do about Bowman? All of them knew what Bowman knew and didnt say anything further ever. The two coaches apparently knew the full details and they never spoke up again. Thats 7-8 people including Beach himself who stayed silent long after the initial incident.

 

[LevelingSolo]

Oilers subreddit is so cringe

 

[TheNumber4]

Just so hard to reconcile this with my love of this team. Even judging by the merit of what he's done as a GM... it f***ing stinks. His resume is garbage. A nepo baby hire on the back of his father's name, who was handed the reins of a team built completely by Tallon and proceeded to completely f*** up the roster. There isn't one good thing the Hawks fanbase has to say about this clown, in any regard.

At the very least he sat on a sexual assault report, didn't go to HR and just reported to his boss, and then wiped his hands clean. He only went into cover your ass mode after it came out.

Just a completely indefensible hire man.. I'm still f***ing stunned at what an ignorant, tone deaf move this is. Pretty damn telling Jackson put his profile to private the night before. A craven move, and Fat Stauffer indicated both he and that asshole boarded a plane to fly back out east and go into hiding again. Also Fat Stauffer and the media lickspittles rolling out the full court PR press for this cretin.

Yet *another* bush league move by this organization. Unreal. Can't even clap back at other fan bases, the evidence is all right there. Nicholson, Kane, Perry, f***ing Virtanen.. the god damn owner and his $70000 gift for a 'film project' to a 17 year old.

Bowman and his boss were informed of the incident at the same time. And in that meeting Bowman was told by his boss, that his boss would handle it. He didn't report it to his boss and he didn't really have an opportunity to go to HR. In his mind, his boss has that covered.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Here is a timeline of events so when we discuss what happened we understand what the report said and the time likr

Second week of May 2010: Assault happens
May 23: Al McIsaac, Senior Director of Player development was told by a staff member that the event occurred. He sent the teams mental skills couch and councilor to talk to Beach about the events where he recapped what he says happened.
Same day after the game: Senior management met that had the councilor, McDonaugh, Bowman, Quenneville, Chevyldayof, MacIsaac. They discussed the allegation, coach Q and McD Mentioned that they didn’t want this as a distraction during the finals and McD said he would deal with it.

June 14: It was finally reported to HR by McD

June 16: Human Resources said they could investigate or he could leave the team.

Reading the investigation again, it’s absolutely wild to me that HR even gave him the option to leave instead of investigate. If they would have just investigated it would have been dealt with then and there.

McD and coach Q are f***ing shit heels for even bringing up team chemistry.

Bowman, Chevy, McIssac and the team councillor all had the ability and opportunity to go to HR themselves but instead believed the boss.

To me there is levels of mistake and shitheels.

McD, Q and the HR head just a mix of refusing to do their jobs and protect people and not caring enough.

The others just….failed to do more by not reporting it themselves. Any of them. To me I always thought it was strange that Chevy didn’t have to wear any of this when he could have reported it himself, just like Bowman.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

Oilers subreddit is so cringe

They are being too harsh. From my standpoint Beach was the one who was assaulted and his opinion is the only one that matters, and he sounds like he's made amends with Bowman and agreed with his reinstatement into the league. Therefore if Beach says he's okay with it then I respect his decision.

 

[Mr Positive]

They are being too harsh. From my standpoint Beach was the one who was assaulted and his opinion is the only one that matters, and he sounds like he's made amends with Bowman and agreed with his reinstatement into the league. Therefore if Beach says he's okay with it then I respect his decision.

I'm there now. I didn't know Bowman did all this reconciliation work until this evening. Basically if Beach is OK with it, I'm OK with Bowman.

And let's be real. On the internet it is all about red meat for drama and having an excuse to be negative and bash someone, or bash an organization. The negative reaction is not automatically the correct one

 

[battlegoon]

So here is the scenario:

You and your boss are made aware that someone who works under you has sexually assaulted someone they are in a position of power over.

Over the next few days or weeks you show up to work and the person who sexually assaulted that person is still working and is still in a position where they could potentially interact with the person they victimized. No suspension pending an investigation. Nothing. Just business as usual until the important project is completed?

You’re just going to be quiet about that and let it proceed?

It’s more complicated than that at the same time though. This isn’t just a project. This is your dream project, something you’ve been chasing every single day since you were 3-4 years old. Was it a giant f*** up? Absolutely. But 40-50 people who have been working tirelessly every single day are going to put everything they’ve dreamed of on hold because one member did something bad for everyone. It’s so unfair for everyone involved, Beach especially obviously. Aldrich was really the one who screwed everything over for everyone. The rest of the crew just didn’t know how to handle it at the time.

This isn’t to say what happened doesn’t matter, it’s not to push things under the rug, it’s just the truth. Casting aside your dreams because a player essentially not even on the team had something happen to them would be hard to do. Incredibly hard. I don’t know how many people would be able to do that. It’s sad but that’s the world we live in. People put themselves first.

It’s also another one of those things where sexual assault is so complex sometimes. I don’t know how much Beach came out and told people, but when the victim doesn’t speak up, it makes things incredibly hard on everyone as well. You’re not allowed to go over their head and do something about it if they aren’t comfortable with it.

Everyone could’ve handled things better, especially after the cup run was over. It sucks. Aldrich is the giant piece of shit here though. That’s what people have to remember. Everyone else has a lot of learning to do.

 

[foshizzle]

Nicholson and Bowman…lol. Great work Oilers. I guess hiding sexual crimes is a pre-requisite to be in senior management positions.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

Certainly one of them based on last year's playoff run

Absolutely
they all have each others backside

 

[McBooya42]

Social Media is so disgusting right now holy f***. Oiler fans are simply as disgusting as the guy who is GM now. Disgusting, selfish and racist. Just unbelievable

You forgot uneducated.

 

[Mr Positive]

At the end of the day my last real thoughts about this is Stan Bowman should work in the NHL again but not as a GM. He would be best suited to be a league advisor who works with teams to help address the systemic flaws that lead to things like this happening and not being properly reported. Having made the mistake in the past and his recent work with the Respect project and Kennedy and really having been a long time GM, I think he is uniquely qualified to do so.

I don’t think he should be an NHL GM however as his work for the last few years of his career was quite awful.

Imo if Bowman is okay to work as an advisor then he's okay to work as a GM. Either it's okay or it isn't

As for his quality of work, that's fully in the realm of Jackson's discretion, and he has information and perspective on that that we don't have.

 

[BleedingOil]

You know you don't have to defend the guy and downplay all of the awful things he did just because he's apart of the Oilers now, right?

I've always found that sort of behaviour weird when it comes to sports fans. Very tribalistic like politics.

Actually I got previous posts about this long ago and my stance is the same

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm there now. I didn't know Bowman did all this reconciliation work until this evening. Basically if Beach is OK with it, I'm OK with Bowman.

And let's be real. On the internet it is all about red meat for drama and having an excuse to be negative and bash someone, or bash an organization. The negative reaction is not automatically the correct one

I still think the biggest harm in today’s internet is people like Bowman getting treated with the same hate or disdain than Aldrich does, and it helps truly awful people keep succeeding.
When anyone who doesn’t speak up or says the wrong thing gets treated the same as rapists, murderers and felons, the terrible nature of the latter gets deluted.

Like how everyone is called a Nazi nowadays, the word has lost all meaning.

 

[LevelingSolo]

They are being too harsh. From my standpoint Beach was the one who was assaulted and his opinion is the only one that matters, and he sounds like he's made amends with Bowman and agreed with his reinstatement into the league. Therefore if Beach says he's okay with it then I respect his decision.

They are honestly convinced that absolutely nobody will be watching this fall

it's quite something

 

[CycloneSweep]

Actually I got previous posts about this long ago and my stance is the same

It’s still baffling to me that Chevy got off without even a hand slap.

 

[Mr Positive]

I still think the biggest harm in today’s internet is people like Bowman getting treated with the same hate or disdain than Aldrich does, and it helps truly awful people keep succeeding.
When anyone who doesn’t speak up or says the wrong thing gets treated the same as rapists, murderers and felons, the terrible nature of the latter gets deluted.

Like how everyone is called a Nazi nowadays, the word has lost all meaning.

That might be it. Everyone ramps everything up to 11/10 online because of the anonymity. It makes it hard to really appreciate the reaction a true monster should get.

 

[RipsADrive]

It's an absolute joke that this guy is the hire and the Oilers deserve every bit of flak they're going to get for picking him.

I'm not going to pretend otherwise just because I'm a fan of the team.

 

[McDNicks17]

Oilers subreddit is so cringe

They've even got a petition going to fire Bowman lol.