Oilers hire Stan Bowman as GM & EVP of Hockey Ops

[SEALBound]

I may be a bit out of the loop on the timeline and updates - is the Beach investigation still going?

 

[FiveTacos]

I may be a bit out of the loop on the timeline and updates - is the Beach investigation still going?

No but there's an ongoing lawsuit involving a second Hawks player who claims he was also a victim. The team tried to get it thrown out a few months ago, but the judge denied it. I believe he is claiming that he informed the team during that season as well. If true that means they had knowledge of more than one allegation at the time.

 

[TheNumber4]

If someone under you at your job sexually abuses someone and your actions are not enough to remedy it and indeed you do nothing tangible to actually improve the situation other than punt it to HR, you are responsible. It's that simple. He didn't commit the act, he didn't condone it either, but he didn't do anywhere near enough and he is in a position of responsibility. If a teacher abuses kids and the principal and those that know don't do anything that's on them. He wasn't some innocent bystander who just heard about it he was the GM.

He was average at best so I don't see why he had to be the hire.

Yeh but he didn’t punt it to HR. He and 7 others were informed of an allegation. His “extremely controlling” boss and President of the Hawks took responsibility of that information and said he would handle it. The President then brought it to HR and a false and negligent assumption was made that it was handled. That false and negligent assumption is what Bowman did wrong here, a fireable offence for sure, but not a jailable one.

How much punishment should Bowman receive after his fireable, negligent managaement mistake is up to opinion. There’s no guidelines, laws, or rules that state what this punishment should be. Kennedy thinks the negligent management leading to firings at both the Hawks and US Olympics GM position combined with his attempt to educate himself in this area is enough though.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

It'd be hard for an adult to deal with, for young people it's almost impossible. Out of people I know or suspect were victims, all of them were so young when it happened, and didn't always have that support. I know one person who became a teen runaway. And sadly one friend I suspected of being a victim (who most people just saw as a delinquent) ultimately escaped via a shotgun in his mouth. The people who do this are absolute monsters on the level of serial killers.

So it's infuriating to read people whose #1 concern in these situations is the falsely accused and how their lives get ruined. Those people have no idea what a ruined life is until they sit and talk with abuse/assault victims. Go listen to that interview by the mother of the assaulted HS kid and then come back and try to argue that it's understandable to do nothing in order to protect the accused.

And if you hear that, you're never going to argue something as galactically stupid as, "I feel bad there were more victims as a result of doing nothing, but at least he respected the chain of command! That's what's important."

Speaking of which, Bowman's resorting to generic PR speak when it came to being asked about John Doe 2 doesn't exactly inspire confidence that he's truly seen the light either. He seemed genuine when talking about Beach, but that other part sounded like 2010 not-my-problem Bowman.

I had my unfortunate experience when I was a young man at 17 using a fake ID to go around and get into places. Had a sublime trust in just the inherent goodness of anyone that would have wanted to be my friend then. The sublimeness you have in that middle area between being a child and a young man. Won't say any more than that about then. Doesn't need to be said. But it took me till my mid 30's to sit down and open up about that. So I can only imagine how many others there are that suffer in silence like I did for so long. One other thing I did not realize about when you go through that is you essentially get frozen at that age or at least parts of you do. I was completely ignorant to portions of myself being frozen in time while the rest of me chugged along with life. After speaking up and getting help I have been trying to play catch up with those parts of me. And I am better for it, just something I did not realize until I got help that parts of you get put almost frozen in ice right at the time you are abused. It cuts all directions with why it is so hard to come forward. Part of you questions, was what happened really so bad? Maybe it was just a speed bump of life and I need to just move on. Part of you is just angry, so angry you can't even process it, it just burns hot like the sun and it’s so hot you can't even touch it to do anything with it. Part of you doesn't want to risk being blamed for what happened? Oh sure that happened, but you could have done this to stop it or even worse I bet you wanted it to happen that why you didn't do anything to stop it and now you are just regretting that you actually wanted it. And part of you actually just wants it to go away, you don't want the villagers to bring out the torches and pitchforks to go stomping into Frankenstein's castle because it will just put a spot light on everything that happened. It why as a society I wish we would have a calm collective look at the whole thing when it comes to sexual abuse and assault. Don't victim blame. Don't pull out of the pitchforks and torches. Just give support and understanding. If someone is lying on either side of accusation anger and soapboxing does nothing to bring the truth to light. Truth only comes by calmly trying to understand the people involved and what actually happened. That’s it. Ramble over. If it even made any sense. Got a bit emotionally and mentally twisted up with that post. Hope it didnt go to far off the rails.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeh but he didn’t punt it to HR. He and 7 others were informed of an allegation. His “extremely controlling” boss and President of the Hawks took responsibility of that information and said he would handle it. The President then brought it to HR and a false and negligent assumption was made that it was handled. That false and negligent assumption is what Bowman did wrong here, a fireable offence for sure, but not a jailable one.

How much punishment should Bowman receive after his fireable, negligent managaement mistake is up to opinion. There’s no guidelines, laws, or rules that state what this punishment should be. Kennedy thinks the negligent management leading to firings at both the Hawks and US Olympics GM position combined with his attempt to educate himself in this area is enough though.

You're correct in that the assumption is what Bowman did wrong here, but his assumption was that it was made to go away.

You have to have some pretty serious blinders on to believe that after being informed of it, the GM of an NHL franchise was out of the loop on a sexual assault allegation involving one of his coaches and one of his players. Especially since Aldrich continued to work with and travel with the team. Also, at the meeting Bowman was made aware the allegation involved the coach threatening the career of his player.

 

[TheNumber4]

You're correct in that the assumption is what Bowman did wrong here, but his assumption was that it was made to go away.

You have to have some pretty serious blinders on to believe that after being informed of it, the GM of an NHL franchise was out of the loop on a sexual assault allegation involving one of his coaches and one of his players. Especially since Aldrich continued to work with and travel with the team. Also, at the meeting Bowman was made aware the allegation involved the coach threatening the career of his player.

On that last point maybe. It was a 3 week time line during the Playoffs; that went from allegations of sexual abuse to the firing of the accused. Maybe Bowman thought the matter was done and dealt with right then and there. That’s reasonable to assume considering the actions of his boss and president. Should he have done more after that? Yes, which is why he was at fault and fired. It’s a management mistake on a couple levels, is that irredeemable? Decide for yourself. But both Kennedy and Beach think he’s redeemable, and they know more about this case, sexual abuse in general, victims in general, and how to properly handle these situations more than anyone here on HF. So I’d take their word for it.

 

[PaulD]

This league is such trash. Every other professional league shuts this kinda stuff down immediately and the consequences are always lifetime bans. Look at the NBA, look at the NFL. The NHL is such a joke of a league, once Garry Buttman f***s off and retires/dies maybe they’ll be some semblance of integrity.
So sick of this organization making blatantly terrible decisions

Hope you start watching again when if they clean up trash league.

 

[PajamaBoy]

This league likes to regurgitate

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Draisaitl approves , why not us?!?

 

[thaman8765678]

I don't really understand it from a PR view. The Oilers keep hiring some very questionable characters.

You have a GM now who covered up sexual assault. And multiple players who been accused or kicked off other teams for sexual assault or other gross behavior.

I really don't see how you can be an Oilers fan and support this.

 

[Kaniac]

I don't really understand it from a PR view. The Oilers keep hiring some very questionable characters.

You have a GM now who covered up sexual assault. And multiple players who been accused or kicked off other teams for sexual assault or other gross behavior.

I really don't see how you can be an Oilers fan and support this.

I'm an Oiler fan and I've been skimming the pages since the hire. I have seen very limited posters trying to support it. They are extremely few and far between. We hate it. We also hate Bobby Nicholson whom should also be punted far away from this team.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

That’s reasonable to assume considering the actions of his boss and president. Should he have done more after that? Yes, which is why he was at fault and fired. It’s a management mistake on a couple levels, is that irredeemable?

Everyone says he should have done more, but what specifically could he have done in a short amount of time? Keep in mind:

1. Kyle Beach was not interested in coming out as the victim.

2. Bowman has very little power in the Blackhawks organization.

3. The people who had power in the Blackhawks organization assured him the matter was taken care of.

If I’m in that position, I’m not sure what I would do next. Bowman’s inaction wasn’t his finest hour, but considering the above his inaction doesn’t make him a villian either.

If Kyle Beach is okay with it then why can’t everyone else.

 

[JPT]

Draisaitl approves , why not us?!?

Personally, I don't take cues from athletes unless they're giving pointers on weight training or something.

 

[PaulD]

This league likes to regurgitate

especially with winners

 

[PaulD]

Everyone says he should have done more, but what specifically could he have done in a short amount of time? Keep in mind:

1. Kyle Beach was not interested in coming out as the victim.

2. Bowman has very little power in the Blackhawks organization.

3. The people who had power in the Blackhawks organization assured him the matter was taken care of.

If I’m in that position, I’m not sure what I would do next. Bowman’s inaction wasn’t his finest hour, but considering the above his inaction doesn’t make him a villian either.

If Kyle Beach is okay with it then why can’t everyone else.

Well said.

But fake rage on line is rampant. Nobody is talking about this at the office water coolers. Nobody is talking about this at their local pub or in school hallways. There is no outrage that Bowman got hired in Edmonton at the dinner table or back yard chat over the fence with neighbors. You wont find it on your News at 11.
But go on line and it is just flying.

 

[JPT]

Ah yes. Nothing is smarter and more convincing than looking at people who are disagreeing with you and dismissing it as "fake rage," particularly when no one is raging.

 

[PaulD]

I don't really understand it from a PR view. The Oilers keep hiring some very questionable characters.

You have a GM now who covered up sexual assault. And multiple players who been accused or kicked off other teams for sexual assault or other gross behavior.

I really don't see how you can be an Oilers fan and support this.

Maybe they are taking their lead from Leaf Nation. They barely blinked when the shit storm hit the news there........and Cliff Fletcher never missed a day the office.

Ah yes. Nothing is smarter and more convincing than looking at people who are disagreeing with you and dismissing it as "fake rage," particularly when no one is raging.

Yea right.

 

[JPT]

Maybe they are taking their lead from Leaf Nation. They barely blinked when the shit storm hit the news........and Cliff Fletcher never missed a day the office.


Yea right.

You should know that every time someone resorts to "this is fake outrage" or the like, it becomes very clear that person has no ground to stand on with their argument and knows it. It's a cop out. They can't find a way to accept the fact that people disagree with them, so they invent something to try to entirely discredit those people.

Maybe stop repeating things you read on the internet, like "fake rage." It makes you appear to lack any substance at all.

 

[PaulD]

You should know that every time someone resorts to "this is fake outrage" or the like, it becomes very clear that person has no ground to stand on with their argument and knows it. It's a cop out. They can't find a way to accept the fact that people disagree with them, so they invent something to try to entirely discredit those people.

Maybe stop repeating things you read on the internet, like "fake rage." It makes you appear to lack any substance at all.

Ok Coach.

 

[PaulD]

Ah yes. Nothing is smarter and more convincing than looking at people who are disagreeing with you and dismissing it as "fake rage," particularly when no one is raging.

Except on line.
Like I said no one is raging anywhere, but on line. No one is even talking about it except on line.
"Bowman got hired , cant believe it? Cant believe Oiler fans are alright with this"

Well that is fine.

Just that many disagree with that take. Including all those actually involved in the incident . Including Kyle.

 

[FiveTacos]

1. Kyle Beach was not interested in coming out as the victim.

He wanted the team to do something. That's why he used his confidant and Gary as a go between with management.

Staying anonymous does not preclude an internal investigation.

Of course at some point someone in the org leaked it anyway, resulting in Beach being bullied. I'm guessing someone figured it would be a way to keep more victims from coming forward, as we now know from the new lawsuit tha the team was aware of at least one more player who had complained internally.

2. Bowman has very little power in the Blackhawks organization.

No one buys that. Hell, he has the name, connections, and clout to have gone straight to someone in the league office if he realized nothing was happening.

3. The people who had power in the Blackhawks organization assured him the matter was taken care of.

And when he told the confidant to assure Beach it was being handled, he never followed up with "hey boss, the player is really messed up, what's the status of that investigation". He just promised, then sat on his hands? Fake concern.

If Kyle Beach is okay with it then why can’t everyone else.

Go ask Black Ace 2 and the HS victim, both of whom the team has tried to silence, if they're okay with it. Oh and the intern. And the two at Miami.

 

[JPT]

Except on line.
Like I said no one is raging anywhere, but on line. No one is even talking about it except on line.
"Bowman got hired , he should be banned for life" Yea right.

That isn't rage. It's an opinion.

Congratulations. You've fallen into the same trap for the lazy as everyone else who complains about "fake news" and "fake polls" and the like whenever they read or see something that challenges their barely thought-out worldview. You haven't spent the time to develop your own consistent principles, and you know it. You're self-conscious about that fact, so you have to start attacking anyone who has consistent principles as faking it.

Do better. You can disagree with takes without having to cope with your own shortcomings by calling things you don't like "fake." I don't think everyone who thinks Bowman deserves a second chance is faking it to get a rise out of me. Why can't you accept that not everyone who thinks he shouldn't isn't faking it to, I don't know, feel morally superior to strangers on a message board?

 

[HabzSauce]

You should know that every time someone resorts to "this is fake outrage" or the like, it becomes very clear that person has no ground to stand on with their argument and knows it. It's a cop out. They can't find a way to accept the fact that people disagree with them, so they invent something to try to entirely discredit those people.

Maybe stop repeating things you read on the internet, like "fake rage." It makes you appear to lack any substance at all.

He didn't say anything wrong tho did he?

I agree with him, rage you see online is not accurate representation about how people actually feel in real life. It's always the vocal minority here but in real life, it's much different.

It was the same deal with covid - hop online and you're the biggest POS of all time if you didn't agree with what they were preaching. Easy to think the entire world was full of hate, but in real life? Nothing even close - was a completely different reality.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

“ Fake rage “ is a pretty bad look my guy …

 

[JPT]

He didn't say anything wrong tho did he?

I agree with him, rage you see online is not accurate representation about how people actually feel in real life. It's always the vocal minority here but in real life, it's much different.

It was the same deal with covid - hop online and you're the biggest POS of all time if you didn't agree with what they were preaching. Easy to think the entire world was full of hate, but in real life? Nothing even close - was a completely different reality.

Sure that's one perspective I guess. That doesn't mean it's correct, nor does it mean dismissing people with whom you disagree as faking their position isn't lazy. It's just a claim with no evidence other than, at best, anecdotes and, at worst, someone just making shit up because they are insecure with their own position. It's an obvious tell.

I'd advise anyone who is convinced that the people who disagree with them are faking outrage because they are saying something on the internet to spend less time online.