Oilers hire Stan Bowman as GM & EVP of Hockey Ops

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Hate Boston as a rival hockey club, but what a classy organization with classy players. Even Marchand deserves tons of respect for the way he plays. I am sure he does a lot of community outreach too.

Yeah that Jeremy Jacobs is such a classy guy.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

i know it seems heartless, but ultimately Kyle Beach is the one ultimately responsible for the next victims. Bowman et al are clueless, but without Beach’s cooperation the Blackhawks could shout it from the rooftops but ultimately the trainer will get hired somewhere unless he’s arrested and prosecuted.

It sucks to be a victim, but it sucks more to see the same thing happen to someone else because of the shame of being a sexual assault victim.

Does Bowman share any responsibility? Yes, but not enough for a lifetime ban. Ultimately he failed to report a crime, the same thing Kyle Beach did.

 

[JPT]

i know it seems heartless, but ultimately Kyle Beach is the one ultimately responsible for the next victims. Bowman et al are clueless, but without Beach’s cooperation the Blackhawks could shout it from the rooftops but ultimately the trainer will get hired somewhere unless he’s arrested and prosecuted.

It sucks to be a victim, but it sucks more to see the same thing happen to someone else because of the shame of being a sexual assault victim.

Does Bowman share any responsibility? Yes, but not enough for a lifetime ban. Ultimately he failed to report a crime, the same thing Kyle Beach did.

Aldrich is the one ultimately responsible for all of the people he victimized.

 

[John Pedro]

Sucks that I really wanted McDavid to win a cup there, not anymore. What a fumble

 

[Mattilaus]

You contact the police whenever you hear (2nd hand) that a crime was allegedly committed?

If an employee you are responsible for and are in close contact reports they are sexually assaulted by another employee you are also responsible for then yes, you absolutely call the police. Stop trying to make it sound like Bowman just overheard the story at a bar about like a former roommate or some shit. It was his employees that he oversaw and his responsibility. As for victim's privacy, you can have that and still involve the police, hence why we have other unnamed victims in this case, because they have chosen so.

Why is it difficult to understand here that if a boss hears one of his employees was sexually assaulted by another employee, the ONLY correct action is to get the police involved. He was told by higher ups that they were gonna take care of it? Fine, wait a bit, but when it is clear those people are not going to do anything, when it is clear the sexual predator is just going to get off scott free and be able to offend again, you have a moral obligation to act and Bowman did not. He sat on his hands and let it happen.

A woman goes to her boss and says her co-worker raped and attempted to murder her, but she is afraid of what will happen if she reports it.

Boss: Oh well we will just let it slide then, I mean I only heard it 2nd hand anyways and since you are afraid I won't bother encouraging you to be brave and offer supports. We'll just ignore it ever happened instead.

 

[Yuke]

This is such a bad take.

As mentioned, I have a lot of experience as the "boss" of a company of about 200 people. That's twice the size of an average NHL team.

Nothing happens in a company that size without everyone knowing about it within hours. If one of my managers came to me about a sexual assault against another employee, I can guarantee you everyone else knew.

Now, add to that the fact that nothing happened for three weeks, and you have a recipe for massive revolt within a company.

I have employees who get bent out of shape about someone taking an extra 15 minutes on a lunch break! I'm trying to imagine the outcry about someone being sexually assaulted.

Do you know what's bad for morale? Ignoring something like this because you're in the middle of a play-off run. If I had done that, my Board of Directors would have fired me in a heartbeat, and rightfully so. I can also guarantee that after some time has passed, no other company will pick me up as their COO, no matter how good my P&L was in the past.

Bad for morale!?!? What a ludicrous statement.....



Completely false........

.....maybe 30 years ago.

This is a joke. If everyone knew before you, you suck at your job. People obviously do not trust you.
Note: read the post below by Soundwave regarding the HR role. This is 100% correct, HR are trained to deal with situations, others are trained to notice and report them

 

[Soundwave]

If an employee you are responsible for and are in close contact reports they are sexually assaulted by another employee you are also responsible for then yes, you absolutely call the police. Stop trying to make it sound like Bowman just overheard the story at a bar about like a former roommate or some shit. It was his employees that he oversaw and his responsibility. As for victim's privacy, you can have that and still involve the police, hence why we have other unnamed victims in this case, because they have chosen so.

Why is it difficult to understand here that if a boss hears one of his employees was sexually assaulted by another employee, the ONLY correct action is to get the police involved. He was told by higher ups that they were gonna take care of it? Fine, wait a bit, but when it is clear those people are not going to do anything, when it is clear the sexual predator is just going to get off scott free and be able to offend again, you have a moral obligation to act and Bowman did not. He sat on his hands and let it happen.

A woman goes to her boss and says her co-worker raped and attempted to murder her, but she is afraid of what will happen if she reports it.

Boss: Oh well we will just let it slide then, I mean I only heard it 2nd hand anyways and since you are afraid I won't bother encouraging you to be brave and offer supports. We'll just ignore it ever happened instead.

First of all, I think hockey fans have a skewed perception of what a GM is, a GM is not organizationally the "boss". Their job is to put together a playing roster and even within that context they have limits and answer to superiors above them.

A GM should never have to be in charge of handling a HR situation well outside the context of a hockey matter like this was, that is way beyond their job, the president of the team and higher ups beyond him should handle matters like this and the president of the Blackhawks in this case told Bowman straight up that he would handle the matter.

Beyond that in cases like this where the party that is alleging abuse is not willing to go to police and the other party is claiming the encounter was consensual, you pretty much have no case whatsoever. The police can't do a whole lot in that case, all you would accomplish is dragging the person who doesn't want to go to the police into a situation they don't want to be put into. Unfortunately the fact is in these cases the person who's been wronged needs to speak up for there to be any kind of foundation of charges that will stick.

You have no case if the accuser isn't willing to go to police. There are lots of examples of cases where the alleged victim in cases like this doesn't want to cooperate with police, the police basically have to drop the case, same thing in domestic assault cases where the police are called but then the alleged victim in the case doesn't want to press charges, the police basically have to drop the case.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

i know it seems heartless, but ultimately Kyle Beach is the one ultimately responsible for the next victims. Bowman et al are clueless, but without Beach’s cooperation the Blackhawks could shout it from the rooftops but ultimately the trainer will get hired somewhere unless he’s arrested and prosecuted.

It sucks to be a victim, but it sucks more to see the same thing happen to someone else because of the shame of being a sexual assault victim.

Does Bowman share any responsibility? Yes, but not enough for a lifetime ban. Ultimately he failed to report a crime, the same thing Kyle Beach did.

Congrats. You have the bad take of all bad takes in this thread.

The next question is how long will it be until we have a fan base bending over backwards to justify Quenneville being their new coach?

 

[Soundwave]

Congrats. You have the bad take of all bad takes in this thread.

The next question is how long will it be until we have a fan base bending over backwards to justify Quenneville being their new coach?

Ultimately Aldridge is the one that should be getting the vitriol.

 

[canuckster19]

i know it seems heartless, but ultimately Kyle Beach is the one ultimately responsible for the next victims. Bowman et al are clueless, but without Beach’s cooperation the Blackhawks could shout it from the rooftops but ultimately the trainer will get hired somewhere unless he’s arrested and prosecuted.

It sucks to be a victim, but it sucks more to see the same thing happen to someone else because of the shame of being a sexual assault victim.

Does Bowman share any responsibility? Yes, but not enough for a lifetime ban. Ultimately he failed to report a crime, the same thing Kyle Beach did.

Victim blaming... JFC

 

[Soundwave]

Victim blaming... JFC

It's just the reality of the situation, without the alleged victim willing to go to police, there's basically nothing the police can do. They won't be able to do anything especially when the other party in the case is saying the encounter was consensual. That's just the way it is.

 

[Crow]

You can report a crime regardless of the victim’s wishes. Parents do it all the time when their daughters are statutorily raped by their older boyfriends. If you know of a crime, report it.

You can wipe your ass with your shirt. Doesn’t mean you should.

 

[Crow]

Sorry no. That would take the victims ability away to decide how he wants this handled. Reporting to the police, makes
it public, something victims may or may not want.

I’m not opposed to a police investigation, I’m just telling you, that’s the victims decision and his alone. HR policies world wide work in this way, probably for that very reason.


If you are part of an organizaiton with policies and understand why you wouldn’t take that decision away from the victim, you wouldn’t report to the police. Not reporting to the police was not the mistake that happened here.

It’s hard for me to believe some people here would force a victim into revealing his identity publicly against his wishes who was just recently forced to commit unwanted sexual acts and think it’s the right thing to do.

I hope none of you who think that get a job in management managing anyone I care about. Or really anyone at all.

 

[Soundwave]

You can report a crime regardless of the victim’s wishes. Parents do it all the time when their daughters are statutorily raped by their older boyfriends. If you know of a crime, report it.

That's a pretty specific singular type of case because you have an outraged parent who is 100% sure their child is in the right, you don't really see many cases where a random 3rd party that is unrelated to both parties and wasn't even present when the incident occurred push for police charges in cases like this. How many times do we hear after the fact that the victim confided in friend no. XYZ29283, no one really asks why they didn't go to the police.

The fact of the matter is Bowman wasn't there and has no way of knowing who's story is correct either. Then you add to that that Beach doesn't want the police to be involved, so basically you have no case. Then on top of that you have the higher ups in the organization that should be handling the situation saying they will take care of it, because really a situation like this is well beyond the job description of a general manager of any sports team.

Take even a very public example of R. Kelly, who had numerous "rumors" floating about him in the public for decades, even apparently had a video released, reports that he was married to a popular underage singer (Aalliyah) it was basically a joke on the Chappelle show and other pop culture innuendo, and this went on literally for the 90s, 2000s, 2010s, and even with some allegations hurled his way he was largely able to continue his career for decades. It wasn't until the 2020s when some women stepped forward in a documentary that charges were finally filed.

 

[GOilers88]

Congrats. You have the bad take of all bad takes in this thread.

The next question is how long will it be until we have a fan base bending over backwards to justify Quenneville being their new coach?

He's not wrong though. If the actual victim doesn't want to come forward and cooperate with the investigation, then there's nothing the police can do.

I can't go to the cops on behalf of someone else and go, "this guy assaulted that guy, so arrest and charge him", and actually expect them to arrest and charge with a crime. Nothing happens without Kyle Beach wanting to cooperate with the police, which he made clear to several staff members that he didn't want to do. Crazy how when he finally came forward and worked with police how the whole case got rolling though, no?

 

[Soundwave]

He's not wrong though. If the actual victim doesn't want to come forward and cooperate with the investigation, then there's nothing the police can do.

I can't go to the cops on behalf of someone else and go, "this guy assaulted that guy, so arrest and charge him", and actually expect them to arrest and charge with a crime.

You couldn't even say that. If you weren't present and didn't witness anything, all you can say is "I think this person assaulted this person over here", which is even less of a nothing case. You don't have any grounds to say "well I know for sure an assault happened".

If you were present or witnessed something, ok, that's something the police can work with, but "I heard this person say XYZ but they don't want to go to the police" is basically a fart in the wind for the police to work with. They can't do anything with just that.

 

[JPT]

Had Bowman at least tried to go to the police to have this thing investigated, there wouldn't be so many people who are angry about this hire. Hell, if he had followed up and demanded an internal investigation, he wouldn't have even been suspended by the league. There may still have been a scandal, but he would have done everything he could have reasonably been expected to do to try to find out what happened and prevent it from happening again.

The problem is that he didn't do those things, not that if he had it wouldn't have mattered.

 

[GOilers88]

You couldn't even say that. If you weren't present and didn't witness anything, all you can say is "I think this person assaulted this person over here", which is even less of a nothing case.

If you were present or witnessed something, ok, that's something the police can work with, but "I heard this person say XYZ but they don't want to go to the police" is basically a fart in the wind for the police to work with. They can't do anything with just that.

Yah that's exactly what I mean. Whatever words I use are hollow because not only is it a he said she said, but it's a he said she said that I wasn't even present for.

Had Bowman at least tried to go to the police to have this thing investigated, there wouldn't be so many people who are angry about this hire. Hell, if he had followed up and demanded an internal investigation, he wouldn't have even been suspended by the league. There may still have been a scandal, but he would have done everything he could have reasonably been expected to do to try to find out what happened and prevent it from happening again.

The problem is that he didn't do those things, not that if he had it wouldn't have mattered.

He's also one name in a very long list of names that did the same thing. Some if which have held onto their jobs or picked up new jobs along the way, before Bowman got re-hired. But I haven't seen anyone crusading against them.

It's a case of selective memory. Everyone was mad when it came out, it went away and everyone forgot despite the fact that guys were still working in the NHL, now everyone is mad again because that's how the internet works. Again, when you have a victim who doesn't want to cooperate with police, where exactly do you think the investigation goes, or if an investigation can even begin?

 

[JPT]

Yah that's exactly what I mean. Whatever words I use are hollow because not only is it a he said she said, but it's a he said she said that I wasn't even present for.


He's also one name in a very long list of names that did the same thing. Some if which have held onto their jobs or picked up new jobs along the way, before Bowman got re-hired. But I haven't seen anyone crusading against them.

It's a case of selective memory. Everyone was mad when it came out, it went away and everyone forgot despite the fact that guys were still working in the NHL, now everyone is mad again because that's how the internet works. Again, when you have a victim who doesn't want to cooperate with police, where exactly do you think the investigation goes, or if an investigation can even begin?

Yes yes I know. I've already told you I think they should all be banned, so you really don't have to keep bringing it up as if it is going to catch me in an inconsistency or something. The thread is about Bowman, so I'm talking about Bowman.

 

[GOilers88]

Yes yes I know. I've already told you I think they should all be banned, so you really don't have to keep bringing it up as if it is going to catch me in an inconsistency or something. The thread is about Bowman, so I'm talking about Bowman.

I also think it's rich that you think him saying "we did an internal investigation" would change the way people think about him. That's like the police saying "yeah we did an internal investigation".

 

[Soundwave]

Yes yes I know. I've already told you I think they should all be banned, so you really don't have to keep bringing it up as if it is going to catch me in an inconsistency of something. The thread is about Bowman, so I'm talking about Bowman.

I disagree with "everyone should be banned". Aldridge is the criminal here for starters.

Secondly, how the f*** is someone like Bowman getting a life time ban and then people don't even bat an eye lash and are perfectly fine with like Mike Tyson having things like cartoon shows and a big upcoming sports event fight on Netflix? Virtually no one in the sports world raises a stink about that whatsoever, it's ancient history. To me it seems like radical selective outrage towards someone who probably is an actual good person.

Bowman seems to be the only one in the Blackhawks org who has worked with Beach in the years since, reached out to him, worked with the hockey team that Beach is currently coaching, worked with Sheldon Kennedy's org to better himself ... how many other people in the Hawks org can say they've done the same? *crickets*

Did Chevyaldaov do any of that? Don't see any massive outrage at him being the Jets GM.

 

[JPT]

I also think it's rich that you think him saying "we did an internal investigation" would change the way people think about him. That's like the police saying "yeah we did an internal investigation".

I don't care what you think is rich, to be perfectly honest. I'm getting tired of you half-assed reading my posts before quoting them and repeating yourself.

I disagree with "everyone should be banned". Aldridge is the criminal here for starters.

Secondly, how the f*** is someone like Bowman getting a life time ban and then people don't even bat an eye lash and are perfectly fine with like Mike Tyson having things like cartoon shows and a big upcoming sports event fight on Netflix? Virtually no one in the sports world raises a stink about that whatsoever, it's ancient history. To me it seems like radical selective outrage towards someone who probably is an actual good person.

Bowman seems to be the only one in the Blackhawks org who has worked with Beach in the years since, reached out to him, worked with the hockey team that Beach is coaching, worked with Sheldon Kennedy's org to better himself ... how many other people in the Hawks org can say they've done the same? *crickets*

Did Chevyaldaov do any of that? Don't see any massive outrage at him being the Jets GM.

I've already said everyone who was in a position to act but didn't should be banned. Bowman taking steps to better himself and his understanding of these situations is good, but it's not lost on me that he only did those things after it all came out in a scandal and he was suspended by the NHL. I'm not moved to the point of changing my opinion that he should have lost the privilege to work in the NHL.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't care what you think is rich, to be perfectly honest. I'm getting tired of you half-assed reading my posts before quoting them and repeating yourself.


I've already said everyone who was in a position to act but didn't should be banned. Bowman taking steps to better himself and his understanding of these situations is good, but it's not lost on me that he only did those things after it all came out in a scandal and he was suspended by the NHL. I'm not moved to the point of changing my opinion that he should have lost the privilege to work in the NHL.

Well I'm of the opinion that someone who shouldn't really have been in charge of a HR situation shouldn't be banned for life for the actions of someone else.

Bowman had nothing to really act with, being able to tell a second hand account of an encounter you weren't present for means nothing to a police department, you can't do anything with that. You can't even say "well this is what happened", because, well were you present? How do you know? You can't say anything with certainty.

Beyond that, this isn't a situation a GM should be in charge of to begin with, being able to put together a hockey team doesn't mean you know how to handle a massive HR case, Bowman was told by his boss that he would handle it, which is the correct way this situation should have been handled. This situation was way above his pay grade, it's a job for the higher ups in the org and the HR department. His mistake was trusting his boss to do his job properly.

For that this dude was banned for 2 years which is about as long as what Mike Tyson served in jail for actually raping someone and Tyson is a celebrated figure in modern sports. Go figure.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't care what you think is rich, to be perfectly honest. I'm getting tired of you half-assed reading my posts before quoting them and repeating yourself.


I've already said everyone who was in a position to act but didn't should be banned. Bowman taking steps to better himself and his understanding of these situations is good, but it's not lost on me that he only did those things after it all came out in a scandal and he was suspended by the NHL. I'm not moved to the point of changing my opinion that he should have lost the privilege to work in the NHL.

Speaking of repeat. You've done it plenty yourself. Half ass begets half ass. You don't like him. He should have gone to the cops. Nothing he does will change your mind. The opinions of those around him, such as Beach and Kennedy don't hold any weight. Gotcha.

 

[Space umpire]

this is lawfully incorrect…
Stick to posting on hockey forums. You don’t know the law

In your life have you called the police every time you heard (2nd hand) that an alleged crime was committed?
When you’re out and you see someone drink 3 drinks and pull out their car keys do you call the cops?
When a vehicle passes you over the speed limit do you call the cops?

Quit pretending you’re a saint or anyone who doesn’t report any rumor of a crime is evil.

Especially in the corporate world where the chain of command is clearly defined.