Oilers hire Stan Bowman as GM & EVP of Hockey Ops

[JPT]

Proclaiming principles on the internet is not the same as standing by them under real, tangible duress.

I know plenty of really good people, but to insinuate every one of them would just instinctually react a certain way to some extenuating circumstance is absolute delusion. We all hope that everyone would just automatically and without hesitation do nothing but the exact right thing in a situation regardless of how it may effect them or those around them moving forward. But it's very clearly not the case in the real world, and that doesnt mean they just aren't good people.

I wasn't asking you. I was asking the person who dropped in to talk about people being on their high horse in a vague post.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

You've got to be kidding me. You're literally blaming a rape victim for...being a rape victim. Do you realize just how hard it is for rape victims to come out? Do you realize that most rape cases aren't even prosecuted because of how hard it is for a victim to come forward, that the cases that do come forward - even if the victim does everything right - can be thrown out (read; Turner, Brock)? Do you realize that it's even more difficult for male rape victims to come out?

This is not Kyle Beach's fault because he tried to go to someone. Bowman failed Beach, Black Ace 2, the interns that Aldrich sexually harassed, and the teenaged boy. Quenneville failed them. The entire f***ing organization failed them. I will reiterate: this is not the fault of the victims, and posts like yours are the reason why rape cases normally fail, why people are too scared to come out and admit they were raped.

Please tell me you weren't thinking with this post. Please.

It's not that I'm necessarily blaming a rape victim for being a rape victim, it's just a fact that unless a victim comes forward to police there is little that the police let alone a bunch of suits in a corporate office can do.

We all want Aldrich to face punishment and extract him from society and we all wish peace upon Kyle Beach.

 

[67 others]

Nobody is "outing" themselves as anything. Insinuating people are rape apologists is f***ing ridiculous.

Fact is you, I and most people have no idea how they would react to a situation like that unless they were dropped right into the middle of it. Sitting on the internet proclaiming you'd do this or you would have done that is absolutely meaningless and irrelevant to anything, because the fact is most people have no idea what they would do. It's so easy to sit here and wave your righteous flag proclaiming moral superiority, but it's all just a bunch of blah blah blah.

That's exactly the f***ing point. People acknowledging they made mistakes and would do things differently. As is highly likely the case with most people across the board.

Now now. No middle ground or logic.

You must categorize each side as the lord savior vs Satan himself

 

[hangman005]

It's not that I'm necessarily blaming a rape victim for being a rape victim, it's just a fact that unless a victim comes forward to police there is little that the police let alone a bunch of suits in a corporate office can do.

We all want Aldrich to face punishment and extract him from society and we all wish peace upon Kyle Beach.

As a SA survivor myself I can't not emphasize how much the weighed on me, through denial, shame, embarrassment and cowardice (maybe I'm too harsh on myself who knows) it was a decade before I told a soul what had happened to me. It just adds to burden victims of SA are already being crushed, it's not fair, but it's also true. If no one knows... no one knows.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't mean to necessarily blame the victim, but everything I said is true. Beach was the only person with any kind of realistic chance to stop Aldrich from abusing other people.

That's not victim blaming, it's a sad fact of reality.

Everyone who says that any of the Blackhawks could have done things differently may be correct, but nothing of consequence happens without Beach coming forward with his story.

You apparently dont understand how investigations and the criminal justice system works if you think the victim is the only one who could’ve done anything.

Predators rely on the code of silence by unprincipled men like Bowman to groom and exploit their victims.

Keep dying on that hill though. And yes you are 100% victim blaming.

 

[Mattilaus]

Going to the authorities would require you to tell the police who was assaulted or it would be completely pointless. His privacy would then be violated and his wishes disregarded. Unless you think bowman should have gone to the police and said “hey I heard this guy got sexually assaulted by Brad Aldrich but I can’t tell you who it is.” You can explain to me what you think would happen from there.

Your second paragraph is among the dumbest most backward things I’ve read in years. You’re accusing me of what I’m arguing against doing and what your advocating for.

I explained what i would have liked to see bowman do already and it’s very simple. Make sure his bosses agree to suspend BA immediately and indefinitely pending an investigation from a qualified 3rd party, likely a law group who would be compelled to observe an NDA and respect the privacy of all those involved. That’s what I would do if I were in this situation now as a manager. If the situation were different and the victim wanted to go to the authorities I would of course be in full support of their decision.

Okay, tell me the names of the other victims. They came forward and by your logic that means everyone on the planet know who they are. So go ahead, tell us their names. They must not care if people know since they came forward.

 

[Mattilaus]

Proclaiming principles on the internet is not the same as standing by them under real, tangible duress.

I know plenty of really good people, but to insinuate every one of them would just instinctually react a certain way to some extenuating circumstance is absolute delusion. We all hope that everyone would just automatically and without hesitation do nothing but the exact right thing in a situation regardless of how it may effect them or those around them moving forward. But it's very clearly not the case in the real world, and that doesnt mean they just aren't good people.

Nobody is saying he had to do the exact right one thing or he is terrible, but how about him doing literally anything at all? That's too much to ask I guess. Call me crazy but I think I personally would be able to rise over the VERY low bar of doing literally anything. It's a shame you feel you wouldn't.

 

[Johnny Rifle]

You apparently dont understand how investigations and the criminal justice system works if you think the victim is the only one who could’ve done anything.

Keep dying on that hill though.

Sexual assault cases are near impossible to prosecute without the testimony of the victim, especially in cases where the victim kept in contact with the perpetrator such as in a workplace.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Sexual assault cases are near impossible to prosecute without the testimony of the victim, especially in cases where the victim kept in contact with the perpetrator such as in a workplace.

That doesn’t make your point any more misguided.

Aldrich relied on the cover up environment of the Blackhawks. Yet you’re using that to abdicate responsibility from Bowman and put the lionshare on the victim.

Aldrich leveraged his power over Beach to manipulate him and keep him quiet. The reason that works is because of spineless men like Bowman and company. To put it on the victim ignores the threat of repercussions, shame and silence created by people like Bowman who have actual power. Their refusal to use it and their f***ed up priorities are how predators like Aldrich get away with abusing victims. The Blackhawks took their playbook straight from the Catholic Church.

 

[TheNumber4]

He was off the Flames roster immediately after they found out.

The Oilers organization knowingly hired a GM who helped cover up a sexual assault. That is completely disgusting and don't try to deflect with anything else.

Yeh after the Flames gave a known rapist a 6.9M contract. A contract higher than his his 4 rapist friends.

Meanwhile Bowman didn’t rape anyone. And if you actually thought he was a big of a piece of shit as you say he was, you’d be hypocritical by still following and supporting League that allows him to have a job. So put you money where your mouth is, if you think he shouldn’t be in this League then boycott the League. But of course you won’t.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I disagree with "everyone should be banned". Aldridge is the criminal here for starters.

Secondly, how the f*** is someone like Bowman getting a life time ban and then people don't even bat an eye lash and are perfectly fine with like Mike Tyson having things like cartoon shows and a big upcoming sports event fight on Netflix? Virtually no one in the sports world raises a stink about that whatsoever, it's ancient history. To me it seems like radical selective outrage towards someone who probably is an actual good person.

Bowman seems to be the only one in the Blackhawks org who has worked with Beach in the years since, reached out to him, worked with the hockey team that Beach is currently coaching, worked with Sheldon Kennedy's org to better himself ... how many other people in the Hawks org can say they've done the same? *crickets*

Did Chevyaldaov do any of that? Don't see any massive outrage at him being the Jets GM.

I usually agree with you but the line has to be drawn somewhere. No Tyson should not be adulated but making amends (for real, not for show as we saw here) matters. There was outrage at Cheveldayloff (especially how he dragged it out over the weekend to respond) but the Jets are cheap and would never fire him. On top of that, Chipman came out actually said how this should be fixed.

Considering Bill Peters is never coming back for way less, I think Bowman should have gone back to being a lawyer. And Q should retire. He's won already.

 

[TheNumber4]

You apparently dont understand how investigations and the criminal justice system works if you think the victim is the only one who could’ve done anything.

Predators rely on the code of silence by unprincipled men like Bowman to groom and exploit their victims.

Keep dying on that hill though. And yes you are 100% victim blaming.

The Hawks should have opened an investigation. The President said he would handle it, and brought it to HR. The Hr dept by their own policy failed to open an investigation and instead let Aldrich resign. The Hawks f***ed by not opening an investigation.

The Hawks didn’t f*** up by opening a police investigation though. That can only be requested by the Victim.

 

[TheNumber4]

this is lawfully incorrect…
Stick to posting on hockey forums. You don’t know the law

The law firm hired to investigate this incident know the law, and HR practices. They too did NOT note a lack of police investigation as a fault of the Blackhawks, know why? Cause they realize the FACT that that is up to the victim to open at their own discretion.

 

[PaulD]

I, like so many others, am baffled by this hire. However, as a Flames fan, a small part of me is delighted.

as a Flames fan....ya gotta get your delight somewhere.
Bowman is a great hire.

The Hawks should have opened an investigation. The President said he would handle it, and brought it to HR. The Hr dept by their own policy failed to open an investigation and instead let Aldrich resign. The Hawks f***ed by not opening an investigation.

The Hawks didn’t f*** up by opening a police investigation though. That can only be requested by the Victim.

The victim a Bowman are getting along fine and doing some work together.
Fans can ease up on the rage.

 

[GOilers88]

Nobody is saying he had to do the exact right one thing or he is terrible, but how about him doing literally anything at all? That's too much to ask I guess. Call me crazy but I think I personally would be able to rise over the VERY low bar of doing literally anything. It's a shame you feel you wouldn't.

I'm not saying I don't think I would. But I've never been involved in a situation like that, so I can't say one way or another what or how I would react.

I like to think I would, and sure hope that's the case. But people stand around and watch all sorts of bad things happen everyday, even when it seems like anyone with half a heart would jump in. That doesn't mean we're all bad people.

 

[PaulD]

The Hawks should have opened an investigation. The President said he would handle it, and brought it to HR. The Hr dept by their own policy failed to open an investigation and instead let Aldrich resign. The Hawks f***ed by not opening an investigation.

The Hawks didn’t f*** up by opening a police investigation though. That can only be requested by the Victim.

And...... Beach a Bowman are getting along fine and doing some work together.
Fans can ease up on the rage.

 

[TheNumber4]

as a Flames fan....ya gotta get your delight somewhere.
Bowman is a great hire.


And the victim a Bowman are getting along fine and doing some work together.
Fans can ease up on the rage.

Yes, Bowman and Beach literally worked hand in hand on a hockey team and on the subject of player safety. And Kennedy has worked his entire life in that area and is a victim himself. Both have come out and supported Bowman, but apparently I’m supposed to beleive the rage baiters around here that want me to believe that Bowman is some irredeemable piece of shit? Nah. I’ll take their word and actually try to understand the facts of the case before I pass judgement.

 

[PaulD]

I'm not saying I don't think I would. But I've never been involved in a situation like that, so I can't say one way or another what or how I would react.

I like to think I would, and sure hope that's the case. But people stand around and watch all sorts of bad things happen everyday, even when it seems like anyone with half a heart would jump in. That doesn't mean we're all bad people.

Yup.
Maple Leaf Gardens a prime example.

 

[Three On Zero]

this is lawfully incorrect…
Stick to posting on hockey forums. You don’t know the law

Anyone can request an investigation but if the victim doesn’t cooperate there is very little the police can do.

 

[PaulD]

Yes, Bowman and Beach literally worked hand in hand on a hockey team and on the subject of player safety. And Kennedy has worked his entire life in that area and is a victim himself. Both have come out and supported Bowman, but apparently I’m supposed to beleive the rage baiters around here that want me to believe that Bowman is some irredeemable piece of shit? Nah. I’ll take their word and actually try to understand the facts of the case before I pass judgement.

 

[Three On Zero]

Ultimately the fans will never know what happened behind closed doors

Could Bowman have an agenda to fudge his sincerity to get back into the NHL? Yes

Could Beach be giving Bowman a thumbs up because he wants to move on with his life and get this behind him? Yes

Could Bowman have progressed and sincerely realize he made a mistake and made peace with that and the victims? Yes

With situations like this, we will never know the truth and will always have people who are on both sides of the fence on how they feel.

Bowman was always going to get backlash when reinstated, the issue I think is that he should have had to work his way up in the NHL to rebuild relationships. He shouldn’t have been gifted a GM job right away.

 

[Space umpire]

Nobody is saying he had to do the exact right one thing or he is terrible, but how about him doing literally anything at all? That's too much to ask I guess. Call me crazy but I think I personally would be able to rise over the VERY low bar of doing literally anything. It's a shame you feel you wouldn't.

What should he have done?

Call the police? And tell them what? (Be specific).

 

[TheNumber4]

I thought this was an interesting characterization of McDonagh and how he ran the Hawks organization, from the New York Times:

Of the seven men in the room who ultimately decided to sit on Beach’s allegations because they didn’t want to disrupt a Stanley Cup run, nobody wielded more power than McDonough, the team president. He ruled the Blackhawks with an iron fist, dictating protocols for players and staffers alike. When talking to reporters, players had to stand up, wear a shirt and a Blackhawks hat, even when cameras weren’t present. Staffers had to wear head-to-toe professional attire at all times — including suits and ties for the men — throughout 14-hour game days. He took over a wildly understaffed and unprofessional organization, turned it into a meticulous and thriving business, and got as much credit as Rocky Wirtz for the remarkable turnaround.

But he also created a workplace culture of fear and secrecy. From players to PR staffers to front- and back-office employees, it seemed like everyone was looking over their shoulders. The Jenner & Block report cites witnesses who said McDonough was “extremely controlling.”

“It’s all about leadership,” said Respect Group co-founder Sheldon Kennedy, whose company has worked with the Blackhawks and all other 31 NHL teams to combat discrimination, harassment and bullying in the workplace. “We know that with this organization, there was a lot of fear — fear to speak out, fear to say anything, fear to talk about any of this stuff.”

Besides just organizational chain of command, which most anyone would follow blindly, you can kind of see how if McDonagh says he's going to "handle it" you just let the “extremely controlling" BOSS and PRESIDENT of your organization do just that. That's what Bowman did, Chevy, and the 4 other men in the room did. And also one part of Hockey Culture, Sheldon Kennedy hopes to change with his RESPECT group, something he believes beyond a shadow of a doubt that Bowman will change in the organizations he works with moving forward.

 

[Space umpire]

The Hawks should have opened an investigation. The President said he would handle it, and brought it to HR. The Hr dept by their own policy failed to open an investigation and instead let Aldrich resign. The Hawks f***ed by not opening an investigation.

The Hawks didn’t f*** up by opening a police investigation though. That can only be requested by the Victim.

You’re debating someone who lacks knowledge of how the criminal justice system operates yet claims you lack that knowledge.

You can prosecute without an offender present if know who that person is (called in absentia)
You cannot prosecute an offender without a victim or direct eye witnesses. (Nobody to testify 1st hand what happened or was seen).
(Qualifier, if you can reasonably show the victim is dead investigative evidence can be used by it succeeds very rarely.

Signed; person with AA in criminal Justice.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You’re debating someone who lacks knowledge of how the criminal justice system operates yet claims you lack that knowledge.

You can prosecute without an offender present if know who that person is (called in absentia)
You cannot prosecute an offender without a victim or direct eye witnesses. (Nobody to testify 1st hand what happened or was seen).
(Qualifier, if you can reasonably show the victim is dead investigative evidence can be used by it succeeds very rarely.

Signed; person with AA in criminal Justice.

you’re refuting arguments I never made but enjoy your strawman victory and weird flex about having an AA in criminal justice.