Confirmed with Link: Oilers Do Not Match Broberg ($4.58M X2) & Holloway ($2.29M x 2) Offer Sheets | Oilers acquire STL 3rd '28 & Paul Fischer for Futures

[frag2]

But given what he had shown to that point, was it really a lowball?

Nope. It's actually fair IMO. But you know how some around here think about those numbers lol

 

[JeffSkinner53]

I wonder if there was a Buchnevich trade lined up with these 2 before the trade deadline and that's why the Blues went after them

 

[Stoneman89]

Oilers made the lowball offer and then according to holloway nothing was heard after. Thing is a prospect like Holloway is an asset. he is that anywhere. Its up to the Oilers to retain their assets, its what good orgs do is accrue and retain assets. It doesn't fall on the asset to sign himself. Somebody was going to be happy to have Holloway and Broberg. Other clubs were interested as well and according to Broberg he got to pick among 3 offersheets.

The Oilers seemingly did the bare minimum with respect to these two.

Asset management is on any org. That falls on the Oilers to have regular communication, but an org that has failed in that in offseason several times.

So you're saying you have credible first hand insider information into the dealings with these two, leading up to the offer sheets?

 

[aqib]

I was hoping they would keep Holloway. I don't think we'll get a guy in the 3rd round that will make up for him. Boberg, I was blah on. Yes he had a good playoff but I didn't think he was worth that contract. It might have been another Pisani situations. Holloway I thought had more upside

 

[Drivesaitl]

I do remember the rustling of jimmies that was causes by Bjugstad and Kostin last year. We were losing good young depth and it was going to hurt the teams chances of going deep.

Here we are again.

I'm almost positive we'll have this conversation next summer when more of the roster turns over.

I don't have to tell you this took legendary effort from several players who had to have near or at career type years and Bouchard elevating to a superstar. It wasn't the touted Connor Browns that led to any regular season success.

All the Oilers guns had to dig up everything they had to resurrect the season and a coaching change too.

What happened last year is by no means something that would happen every year. We've now lost several pace energy players. On a team that will be exhausted easily this season having played till near end of June, having hardly any time off, and that played around 110games last season.

Bjugstad and Kostin would've been helpful last season. Just like the several players we lost this offseason could be helpful.

 

[Stoneman89]

Not sure who the writer was that said if Ken Holland was the GM, there is no way Armstrong does this. But that was all refuted by Armstrong yesterday, where he said he would have offer sheeted them no matter who was in charge on the Oilers, even his own mom. Proof that you can't believe everything you hear from other people, who THINK they have all this insider info, and just basically throw their opinionated shit against the wall.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

JJ seems like a bright guy. Would think that if he was quite certain that we were at the point of no return for Broberg that he would have traded him. So assuming he didn’t get the trade us or else message from his agent. For the most part teams have relied on other GM’s following the unwritten rule on offer sheets, and have used their leverage on non arbitration eligible RFA’s to their advantage, and every year we see a while whack of young RFA’s on every team as the last guys to be signed, often just before camp. It’s only in hindsight that it would have been proactive in trading the players, don’t think you want to set a precedent of trading your young players just because you haven’t signed them with a month to go before camp even opens. In general that’s a panic move that shows weakness. Unless you get notification from the agent that they are for sure done here and request a change of scenery, you carry on in negotiations like every team does with their RFA’s of this stature.

He's a super bright guy and why I have been bullish on his hire. And generally supportive of all of his moves player and management.

It's still about choices made. As Mustard Tiger mentioned above they reacted to the Offer Sheet with a Cody Ceci trade. Not hard to project this trade option was available to them as far back as last trade deadline. An available break in case of emergency chip.

Now with a fractured, fragile relationship with Broberg, an pro-active approach even following July 1 spending is a chance to test the waters with a revised offer to gage willingness to remind importance to the organization. Maybe even a nudge of alluding or directly including language about matching anything that might come from the market with contingency plans available to ensure. They don't bite on offer it's a chance to call prospective trade partners, beginning with the guy who wanted both players at trade deadline. A friendly business call to 'check in' and softly explore if there might still be trade interest in their RFA(s) softly reinforcing the plan to match any prospective hostile offers with contingencies in place. Or mid-July when news breaks of the Krug LTIR. Mention just checking-in with prospective GM's who might view Broberg as a viable trade offer candidate. Chalk the activities up to 'it's business after all and organizational planning for all contingencies'.

Assessment made of Broberg's position and trade option a viable route if there's no interest or acceptance of good faith second team offer. Move to active exploring trade options with ability for prospective teams to acquire at a lower financial cost versus inflationary requirement of the market. With notice Oilers will match offers as a last resort. Repeat mantra 'it's business after all and organizational planning for all contingencies'. Maybe even an auction forms on the player.

Now what if you're instead negotiating a McLeod v Savoie deal instead of reacting to a high financial offer with low value return. A scan of Blues prospect pool shows some really good pedigree future options (even an 18 year old RD: https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/st-lo...with-16th-pick-select-defenseman-adam-jiricek ) (though not necessarily a priority area with midrange guys Akey and Wanner).

There was a way to use the system to assert control over your controlled asset. The passive approach of low ball smoke out worked in an old cap stalled model. But new big cap bump and more in subsequent years, the risk of a team that shopped on day 1 was real and vulnerable. Versus having both shoes drop on you in late August.

No one is infallible. Just the kind of approach I thought Jackson would do with his deep apex agency experience and deep, strategic thinking mindset.

 

[Game 8]

All of that can change in a hurry when the Oilers decides to an offersheets to Snuggerud and Dvorsky at big $$

Yup I would think the Blues prospects now know how to negotiate their next contract

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Well we did kind of sign 2 wingers for Drai…. And Holloway was pretty much Drais most recent winger in the playoffs. It can look like Holloway was replaced up top.

He was replaced up top because he isn’t a top 6 forward.

 

[TheNumber4]

He was replaced up top because he isn’t a top 6 forward.

I agree. I think he's a mid 6 player moreso. But it's more so about what Holloway thought he was than what we think.

 

[Soundwave]

Just goes to show every bit of cap space is precious, you can't be acting like a grandma throwing around free Halloween candy with your cap.

Even a million in extra cap and probably we keep Holloway at least or would have signed him a month ago.

 

[guymez]

Thanks for the detailed response.

I think where we disagree is that Broberg was ready for the NHL, even on his strong side, or that the Oilers should have traded Kulak (which I assume is the guy you wanted to move to create the opening) in a win now window to experiment with Broberg, and we saw how important Kulak has been in the playoffs. He was only forced to the right side because that's where the Oilers weakness was, the only way he could have played left is through trade and they needed Kulak as a stabilizer to man down what has been a very good 3rd pairing one of the better ones in the league.

I don't know, I think they handled his development very well. This isn't like the Puljujarvi situation when they threw him into the fire too soon.

Either way, it sucks to lose a guy that they developed properly (IMO) in the system for 5 years but they just couldn't take the risk of paying a maybe $4.6m with the cap crunch and wanted to have the deadline flexibility so I understand it from that standpoint but doesn't make it suck any less. They were heavily depending on him to be a long term solution.

So just to be clear...I never advocated for Kulak to be traded. I think that he is a solid bttom pairing dman. What I expected to see from Holland was for him to at least try amnd fix the RHD issue a year or 2 years ago.
He did npothing. In his mind Ceci was good enough. Ceci might have been good enough if he wasnt paired with a scatter brained dman like Darnell Nurse.
So instead of fixing the obvious issue...plan B was to try and fit Broberg into a RHD role.
That IMO was a massive mistake and not because Broberg wasnt a talented dman but because it was clear that he was struggling playing his off side.
I am acutally surprised that posters are defending this. Many posters dismissed the wrong side issue and just assumed it was just the player. Anything to protect the team I guess.

I get the need to defend everything oilers but the evidence suggests that the team didnt handle Broberg very well at all. It also suggests that Broberg was right to be disillusioned with the way he was managed.
The Puljujarvi situation is different IMO because Jesse wasnt a dman.
Dmen have to be developed differently than forwards. It takes much longer and thats especially true when it comes to wingers.
The team owed it to themselves and to the player to try and develop him on his natural side.
They failed to do that and that isnt on Broberg at all.

Regarding matching the contract...of course they coudlnt do that, The issue is that they shouldnt have painted themselves into that corner in the first place.
This entire scenario is primarily a failure of Oilers management.

 

[bellagiobob]

He's a super bright guy and why I have been bullish on his hire. And generally supportive of all of his moves player and management.

It's still about choices made. As Mustard Tiger mentioned above they reacted to the Offer Sheet with a Cody Ceci trade. Not hard to project this trade option was available to them as far back as last trade deadline. An available break in case of emergency chip.

Now with a fractured, fragile relationship with Broberg, an pro-active approach even following July 1 spending is a chance to test the waters with a revised offer to gage willingness to remind importance to the organization. Maybe even a nudge of alluding or directly including language about matching anything that might come from the market with contingency plans available to ensure. They don't bite on offer it's a chance to call prospective trade partners, beginning with the guy who wanted both players at trade deadline. A friendly business call to 'check in' and softly explore if there might still be trade interest in their RFA(s) softly reinforcing the plan to match any prospective hostile offers with contingencies in place. Or mid-July when news breaks of the Krug LTIR. Mention just checking-in with prospective GM's who might view Broberg as a viable trade offer candidate. Chalk the activities up to 'it's business after all and organizational planning for all contingencies'.

Assessment made of Broberg's position and trade option a viable route if there's no interest or acceptance of good faith second team offer. Move to active exploring trade options with ability for prospective teams to acquire at a lower financial cost versus inflationary requirement of the market. With notice Oilers will match offers as a last resort. Repeat mantra 'it's business after all and organizational planning for all contingencies'.

Now what if you're instead negotiating a McLeod v Savoie deal instead of reacting to a high financial offer with low value return. A scan of Blues prospect pool shows some really good pedigree future options (even an 18 year old RD: https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/st-lo...with-16th-pick-select-defenseman-adam-jiricek ) (though not necessarily a priority area with midrange guys Akey and Wanner).

There was a way to use the system to assert control over your controlled asset. The passive approach of low ball smoke out worked in an old cap stalled model. But new big cap bump and more in subsequent years, the risk of a team that shopped on day 1 was real and vulnerable. Versus having both shoes drop on you in late August.

No one is infallible. Just the kind of approach I thought Jackson would do with his deep apex agency experience and deep, strategic thinking mindset.

But we don’t know that parts of your scenario weren’t enacted by Jackson in that timeframe. It’s all just speculation, or one sided information that we made one offer and then just waited idly by. We will never get the fly on the wall version.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

With hindsight, I'd take Buch over Holloway and Broberg as he would put the Oilers over the top and I don't see Florida beating the Oilers. That itself is enough to warrant the trade.

And we would have Buch this year. It was a massive strike out

 

[tiger_80]

This is just stupid. A guy who hits, fights and scores 20 goals and you want him to sit. Wake the f*** up

Well, obviously that's not going to happen, though it would be nice if they shelved him in February and reactivated him in the playoffs. Vegas will do it again this year and will add two 5M players at the deadline because of it.

 

[jukon]

And we would have Buch this year. It was a massive strike out

We can't afford 8 million dollar wingers.

 

[guymez]

Did you watch him play last year? He didn’t beat out kulak for the spot.

So you dont think that the failure to properly develop Broberg payed a role in him not being able to secure an NHL spot?
I mean when a team uses a top 10 pick to select a defenceman you would think that they would commit to developing that player on his natural side. Give him every opportunity to suceed. Nope.
The team had a weakness on the right side so Broberg became the player they were going to use to help solve that.
That simply did not help Broberg at all and it showed.
That is until the playoffs where he started to show signs that he was adjusting to playing his off wing at the NHL level.
If Holland had his shit together he wouldnt have tried to force Borberg to play his off side...he would have built up the right side with a vet player (through a trade) instead of screwing around with the teams best prospect.
That would have expidited Brobergs development so that he could have been a part of the NHL team sooner.

As I have said already...just watch Broberg in St Louis. See how he does playing his natural side with a vet player.

Just think Bouchard...how would he have done playing his off side or even on his natural side with partners like say Nurse his first year or 2 instead of a vet like Keith and then a much better vet like Ekholm?
Lets say you play him with a different player maybe for a while on his wrong side and then on his natural side with lesser players like Nurse. Back and forth you go...playing his off side then his natural side. Send him down and have him play on his off side some more. All because the NHL team has a weakness on the players wrong side.
At some point you would have to ask yourself...WTF is the team doing? Why are they choosing to solve their weakness on D in this way?

Thats what they did with Broberg and they pissed away a very good prospect as a result.

 

[Canovin]

We can't afford 8 million dollar wingers.

His 8M doesn't kick in until another year. If he was traded to the Oilers, he would be making 2.9M this year

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

We can't afford 8 million dollar wingers.

Bro buch at 50 percent retained is less than J. Skinner.

That was the deal

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

But we don’t know that parts of your scenario weren’t enacted by Jackson in that timeframe. It’s all just speculation, or one sided information that we made one offer and then just waited idly by. We will never get the fly on the wall version.

My situation is a hypothetical alternative to the passive, slow cook choice the Oilers made. A framework of how a pro-active approach on a damaged, vulnerable relationship might have been handled as a risk mitigation scenario in a changed Cap year of big financial bumps. And a GM who favoured both players at trade deadline making public noice in June that prospective offer sheet(s) could be a play for their organization. There was clear and present risk.

Again, I'd think some risk management work would have a clear financial value threshold on your two young RFA both for budgeting and in event of offer sheets being tendered. The only alleged confirmed information (no surprise) is from the agency side which said the Oilers offer was $1.2 million. There's good reason Bowman framed out his media avail as a chronology starting with the offer sheets being tendered. The real media questions should have been about what happened in the month and a half of team control to sign these players.

 

[JeffSkinner53]

Not sure who the writer was that said if Ken Holland was the GM, there is no way Armstrong does this. But that was all refuted by Armstrong yesterday, where he said he would have offer sheeted them no matter who was in charge on the Oilers, even his own mom. Proof that you can't believe everything you hear from other people, who THINK they have all this insider info, and just basically throw their opinionated shit against the wall.

It's because Holland is golfing buddies with Armstrong, that's why Matheson was claiming that.

 

[guymez]

Not sure who the writer was that said if Ken Holland was the GM, there is no way Armstrong does this. But that was all refuted by Armstrong yesterday, where he said he would have offer sheeted them no matter who was in charge on the Oilers, even his own mom. Proof that you can't believe everything you hear from other people, who THINK they have all this insider info, and just basically throw their opinionated shit against the wall.

Who knows if what the writer was claiming is true but it is ture that Holland and Armstrong are each others BFF.
So Armstrong pretty much had to say that he would have done the offer sheet anyway.
What else can he say?

 

[Frank the Tank]

Not sure who the writer was that said if Ken Holland was the GM, there is no way Armstrong does this. But that was all refuted by Armstrong yesterday, where he said he would have offer sheeted them no matter who was in charge on the Oilers, even his own mom. Proof that you can't believe everything you hear from other people, who THINK they have all this insider info, and just basically throw their opinionated shit against the wall.

I'd argue that is what Armstrong has to say publicly. Any hint of collusion among GMs regarding offer sheets would be investigated immediately by the NHLPA.

Not that this validates the Holland rumors, but Armstrong has no incentive to confirm them, even if true.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'd argue that is what Armstrong has to say publicly. Any hint of collusion among GMs regarding offer sheets would be investigated immediately by the NHLPA.

Not that this validates the Holland rumors, but Armstrong has no incentive to confirm them, even if true.

Yup. And he snaked a hockey birdy while allegedly on a golf trip with good friend Ken. No details if his Mom was along and he was beating her too at golf (for equity sake).

Edit: Better golf vernacular might be a double eagle. Might be an albatross for some.

 

[bellagiobob]

I wonder if these 2 get boo’d or not at future home games. And if so, which player gets boo’d the most out of the 2

Pretty hard to boo healthy scratches.