frag2
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2006
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But given what he had shown to that point, was it really a lowball?
Nope. It's actually fair IMO. But you know how some around here think about those numbers lol
But given what he had shown to that point, was it really a lowball?
So you're saying you have credible first hand insider information into the dealings with these two, leading up to the offer sheets?Oilers made the lowball offer and then according to holloway nothing was heard after. Thing is a prospect like Holloway is an asset. he is that anywhere. Its up to the Oilers to retain their assets, its what good orgs do is accrue and retain assets. It doesn't fall on the asset to sign himself. Somebody was going to be happy to have Holloway and Broberg. Other clubs were interested as well and according to Broberg he got to pick among 3 offersheets.
The Oilers seemingly did the bare minimum with respect to these two.
Asset management is on any org. That falls on the Oilers to have regular communication, but an org that has failed in that in offseason several times.
I don't have to tell you this took legendary effort from several players who had to have near or at career type years and Bouchard elevating to a superstar. It wasn't the touted Connor Browns that led to any regular season success.I do remember the rustling of jimmies that was causes by Bjugstad and Kostin last year. We were losing good young depth and it was going to hurt the teams chances of going deep.
Here we are again.
I'm almost positive we'll have this conversation next summer when more of the roster turns over.
He's a super bright guy and why I have been bullish on his hire. And generally supportive of all of his moves player and management.JJ seems like a bright guy. Would think that if he was quite certain that we were at the point of no return for Broberg that he would have traded him. So assuming he didn’t get the trade us or else message from his agent. For the most part teams have relied on other GM’s following the unwritten rule on offer sheets, and have used their leverage on non arbitration eligible RFA’s to their advantage, and every year we see a while whack of young RFA’s on every team as the last guys to be signed, often just before camp. It’s only in hindsight that it would have been proactive in trading the players, don’t think you want to set a precedent of trading your young players just because you haven’t signed them with a month to go before camp even opens. In general that’s a panic move that shows weakness. Unless you get notification from the agent that they are for sure done here and request a change of scenery, you carry on in negotiations like every team does with their RFA’s of this stature.
All of that can change in a hurry when the Oilers decides to an offersheets to Snuggerud and Dvorsky at big $$
He was replaced up top because he isn’t a top 6 forward.Well we did kind of sign 2 wingers for Drai…. And Holloway was pretty much Drais most recent winger in the playoffs. It can look like Holloway was replaced up top.
I agree. I think he's a mid 6 player moreso. But it's more so about what Holloway thought he was than what we think.He was replaced up top because he isn’t a top 6 forward.
So just to be clear...I never advocated for Kulak to be traded. I think that he is a solid bttom pairing dman. What I expected to see from Holland was for him to at least try amnd fix the RHD issue a year or 2 years ago.Thanks for the detailed response.
I think where we disagree is that Broberg was ready for the NHL, even on his strong side, or that the Oilers should have traded Kulak (which I assume is the guy you wanted to move to create the opening) in a win now window to experiment with Broberg, and we saw how important Kulak has been in the playoffs. He was only forced to the right side because that's where the Oilers weakness was, the only way he could have played left is through trade and they needed Kulak as a stabilizer to man down what has been a very good 3rd pairing one of the better ones in the league.
I don't know, I think they handled his development very well. This isn't like the Puljujarvi situation when they threw him into the fire too soon.
Either way, it sucks to lose a guy that they developed properly (IMO) in the system for 5 years but they just couldn't take the risk of paying a maybe $4.6m with the cap crunch and wanted to have the deadline flexibility so I understand it from that standpoint but doesn't make it suck any less. They were heavily depending on him to be a long term solution.
He's a super bright guy and why I have been bullish on his hire. And generally supportive of all of his moves player and management.
It's still about choices made. As Mustard Tiger mentioned above they reacted to the Offer Sheet with a Cody Ceci trade. Not hard to project this trade option was available to them as far back as last trade deadline. An available break in case of emergency chip.
Now with a fractured, fragile relationship with Broberg, an pro-active approach even following July 1 spending is a chance to test the waters with a revised offer to gage willingness to remind importance to the organization. Maybe even a nudge of alluding or directly including language about matching anything that might come from the market with contingency plans available to ensure. They don't bite on offer it's a chance to call prospective trade partners, beginning with the guy who wanted both players at trade deadline. A friendly business call to 'check in' and softly explore if there might still be trade interest in their RFA(s) softly reinforcing the plan to match any prospective hostile offers with contingencies in place. Or mid-July when news breaks of the Krug LTIR. Mention just checking-in with prospective GM's who might view Broberg as a viable trade offer candidate. Chalk the activities up to 'it's business after all and organizational planning for all contingencies'.
Assessment made of Broberg's position and trade option a viable route if there's no interest or acceptance of good faith second team offer. Move to active exploring trade options with ability for prospective teams to acquire at a lower financial cost versus inflationary requirement of the market. With notice Oilers will match offers as a last resort. Repeat mantra 'it's business after all and organizational planning for all contingencies'.
Now what if you're instead negotiating a McLeod v Savoie deal instead of reacting to a high financial offer with low value return. A scan of Blues prospect pool shows some really good pedigree future options (even an 18 year old RD: https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/st-lo...with-16th-pick-select-defenseman-adam-jiricek ) (though not necessarily a priority area with midrange guys Akey and Wanner).
There was a way to use the system to assert control over your controlled asset. The passive approach of low ball smoke out worked in an old cap stalled model. But new big cap bump and more in subsequent years, the risk of a team that shopped on day 1 was real and vulnerable. Versus having both shoes drop on you in late August.
No one is infallible. Just the kind of approach I thought Jackson would do with his deep apex agency experience and deep, strategic thinking mindset.
And we would have Buch this year. It was a massive strike outWith hindsight, I'd take Buch over Holloway and Broberg as he would put the Oilers over the top and I don't see Florida beating the Oilers. That itself is enough to warrant the trade.
Well, obviously that's not going to happen, though it would be nice if they shelved him in February and reactivated him in the playoffs. Vegas will do it again this year and will add two 5M players at the deadline because of it.This is just stupid. A guy who hits, fights and scores 20 goals and you want him to sit. Wake the f*** up
And we would have Buch this year. It was a massive strike out
So you dont think that the failure to properly develop Broberg payed a role in him not being able to secure an NHL spot?Did you watch him play last year? He didn’t beat out kulak for the spot.
His 8M doesn't kick in until another year. If he was traded to the Oilers, he would be making 2.9M this yearWe can't afford 8 million dollar wingers.
Bro buch at 50 percent retained is less than J. Skinner.We can't afford 8 million dollar wingers.
My situation is a hypothetical alternative to the passive, slow cook choice the Oilers made. A framework of how a pro-active approach on a damaged, vulnerable relationship might have been handled as a risk mitigation scenario in a changed Cap year of big financial bumps. And a GM who favoured both players at trade deadline making public noice in June that prospective offer sheet(s) could be a play for their organization. There was clear and present risk.But we don’t know that parts of your scenario weren’t enacted by Jackson in that timeframe. It’s all just speculation, or one sided information that we made one offer and then just waited idly by. We will never get the fly on the wall version.
It's because Holland is golfing buddies with Armstrong, that's why Matheson was claiming that.Not sure who the writer was that said if Ken Holland was the GM, there is no way Armstrong does this. But that was all refuted by Armstrong yesterday, where he said he would have offer sheeted them no matter who was in charge on the Oilers, even his own mom. Proof that you can't believe everything you hear from other people, who THINK they have all this insider info, and just basically throw their opinionated shit against the wall.
Who knows if what the writer was claiming is true but it is ture that Holland and Armstrong are each others BFF.Not sure who the writer was that said if Ken Holland was the GM, there is no way Armstrong does this. But that was all refuted by Armstrong yesterday, where he said he would have offer sheeted them no matter who was in charge on the Oilers, even his own mom. Proof that you can't believe everything you hear from other people, who THINK they have all this insider info, and just basically throw their opinionated shit against the wall.
I'd argue that is what Armstrong has to say publicly. Any hint of collusion among GMs regarding offer sheets would be investigated immediately by the NHLPA.Not sure who the writer was that said if Ken Holland was the GM, there is no way Armstrong does this. But that was all refuted by Armstrong yesterday, where he said he would have offer sheeted them no matter who was in charge on the Oilers, even his own mom. Proof that you can't believe everything you hear from other people, who THINK they have all this insider info, and just basically throw their opinionated shit against the wall.
Yup. And he snaked a hockey birdy while allegedly on a golf trip with good friend Ken. No details if his Mom was along and he was beating her too at golf (for equity sake).I'd argue that is what Armstrong has to say publicly. Any hint of collusion among GMs regarding offer sheets would be investigated immediately by the NHLPA.
Not that this validates the Holland rumors, but Armstrong has no incentive to confirm them, even if true.
I wonder if these 2 get boo’d or not at future home games. And if so, which player gets boo’d the most out of the 2