Confirmed with Link: Oilers Do Not Match Broberg ($4.58M X2) & Holloway ($2.29M x 2) Offer Sheets | Oilers acquire STL 3rd '28 & Paul Fischer for Futures

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What Would You Do?


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foshizzle

Registered User
Feb 1, 2007
5,500
4,911
Just because he's a top 4 on a bad team doesn't mean he's a top 4 on a good team.
Nurse was a #1 on a bad team for a few years, that doesn't make him a #1. There's plenty of examples of players that got big minutes on a bad team but were then over their head playing those minutes on a good team. Nurse being a prime example of this.

If Stecher and Ceci are your only top 4 options, you're not a Cup contender unless a lot of stuff bounces your way.
The Oilers were depending on growth from Broberg to fill that top 4 void. No guarantees with that of course but we know what Ceci and Stecher are, and that's bottom pairing Dmen on a contending team.

Broberg still had plenty of runway left for growth so this is a blow to the team, not a fatal one but it's an issue losing him. I'm sure they'll try something to upgrade the D by the deadline but in the here and now, it's not good enough.
People can shit on Broberg all they want on the way out "he wasn't that good anyway" etc. etc. but this is a loss for the organization.
Dude, I’m not sure you understand how metrics work. Him being a number 4 in Arizona means he is playing against the same competition as any other number 4 defenseman in the league. If his metrics are good playing against the same players as Ceci- it means he’s a better player. Your example, Nurse being the Oilers slotted number 1 d man and putting up poor defensive metrics compared to other numbers 1s means he is a worse player.

Players should sign the lowest contract offered them at the first opportunity to do so.
Or, according to you, Carter Savoie, if offered a contract is December, was wise not to sign it
 

brentashton

Registered User
Jan 21, 2018
14,635
21,193
Do you think there’s a legitimate possibility that the other GMs in the league are colluding (for lack of a better word) against the Oilers because of the Bowman hiring? Offer sheets happen but this feels more vindictive to me and there’s rumours that they won’t make any deals to help the Oilers cap situation unless it’s a massive overpayment. Why on earth did we hire that Dbag as GM?
Consider this:

Any Oiler GM wanting to address an organizational need, offers your team a package that would help your team fight for a playoff spot and the added financial gate, strengthen a skill position of weakness on your club, offer you greater potential than you currently have in draft picks, etc..

You go to your owner and say Boss, I turned all those things down because, you know, we hate the Oilers, Gary said we do, right?

Yes, it sounds as ludicrous as it does.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
34,359
14,852
Do you think there’s a legitimate possibility that the other GMs in the league are colluding (for lack of a better word) against the Oilers because of the Bowman hiring? Offer sheets happen but this feels more vindictive to me and there’s rumours that they won’t make any deals to help the Oilers cap situation unless it’s a massive overpayment. Why on earth did we hire that Dbag as GM?
That is absolute nonsense IMO.
 

NeverForget06

Here we go again !
Jan 7, 2013
6,832
5,923
Edmonton
Armstrong is an overrated bum that has mismanaged the Blues for the better part of 15 years but got lucky with the Berube interim year.

The media are slobbering over him because it’s the Oilers
Yup - he's lucky that Binnington randomly caught fire and got them to the cup. Otherwise he would have achieved zilch
 
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foshizzle

Registered User
Feb 1, 2007
5,500
4,911
I've read some wild takes in this thread over the last few days, but "Broberg was dumb not to agree to a contract back in January" has to top the list.
Why would that be? A player who has failed to crack the NHL gets an extension in January and refuses to take it is dumb to you? A player with no arb rights? Okay there buddy

Consider this:

Any Oiler GM wanting to address an organizational need, offers your team a package that would help your team fight for a playoff spot and the added financial gate, strengthen a skill position of weakness on your club, offer you greater potential than you currently have in draft picks, etc..

You go to your owner and say Boss, I turned all those things down because, you know, we hate the Oilers, Gary said we do, right?

Yes, it sounds as ludicrous as it does.
Happens all the time. Tanev this year.
 
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Broberg Speed

Registered User
Oct 23, 2020
7,986
5,366
Think Broberg camp wanted 1.8 x 2 years not sure on Holloway.

1.8 as a start probably means you could've settled around 1.6, maybe 1.5.
That's a pretty big detail that should be clarified, if Broberg's camp was asking for 1 or two years at that number. The same goes for what was offered to Holloway.

If Friedman knows why doesn't he clarify it? He always tells a story that can't be substantiated.

It's like Bob saying a player left money on the table to join the Oilers every single time a player joins the Oilers.
 
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belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,340
22,931
Canada
They had an option of signing an offer sheet in December/January playing in the minors? Really?
They did. By choosing to not sign the offers put forth by the Oilers.

The Oilers are the ones who decided to showplay the development of these high pedigree assets. That eats into a player's ability to earn. And they notice it.

Broberg asking for a trade happened. Holloway may not have asked for the trade, but he was in the same boat. He was toiling on the AHL roster while lesser players filled NHL spots due to cap constraints.

The Oilers may have held leverage in salary negotiations, but there was always an offchance that a team might throw out a predatory offersheet. They were ripe for the picking.
 

brentashton

Registered User
Jan 21, 2018
14,635
21,193
Why would that be? A player who has failed to crack the NHL gets an extension in January and refuses to take it is dumb to you? A player with no arb rights? Okay there buddy


Happens all the time. Tanev this year.
No. Tanev was in the driver seat at the TDL annd HE elected to go to Dallas over Edmonton. That wasn’t collusion by GMs. Not remotely the same example.

 
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PettersonHughes

Registered User
Aug 26, 2020
1,682
707
I mean we are gonna re-sign Drai this summer anyway.
Right, and then what money will you guys have to offer-sheet Neighbors?
Leon costs minimum $11 million, Oilers have $18m next year, with EVAN BOUCHARD also RFA. Ceci and a couple other depth forwards also need new contracts.

The Blues can easily sign Neighbors and Hofer first with their $15 million, and then fill the rest of the roster with the depth they'd need to retain (Faksa, Toropchenko, Kapanen, Perunovich, Suter). Good luck,
 

Slats432

Registered User
Jun 2, 2002
15,282
3,663
hockeypedia.com
Ceci and a couple other depth forwards also need new contracts.
umm-no-kenan-thompson.gif
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,126
10,497
780
Right, and then what money will you guys have to offer-sheet Neighbors?
Leon costs minimum $11 million, Oilers have $18m next year, with EVAN BOUCHARD also RFA. Ceci and a couple other depth forwards also need new contracts.

The Blues can easily sign Neighbors and Hofer first with their $15 million, and then fill the rest of the roster with the depth they'd need to retain (Faksa, Toropchenko, Kapanen, Perunovich, Suter). Good luck,
I doubt the Oilers offersheet Neigbours as it conflicts with our cap structure. I can see the Oilers sending an offersheet to Dvorsky tho. Not that the Oilers want him. Just to mess up St. Louis cap space
 

KCC

Registered User
Aug 15, 2007
18,807
10,088
They can have him at 4.6x2. He's not worth that amount (again) to play so so on his off side, or as a 3rd pairing guy. 81 NHL games experience? Yeah, no.
I don’t think either player is worth it honestly. Draisaitl and Mcdavid need to be signed in the next year or two same with Bouchard I think?
 
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K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
14,872
15,981
The weirdest thing about this whole situation is how many fans 180'd on these two players (especially Broberg) to get to the pitchforks. I swear I was a bigger fan of these players than most of the fans ready to riot over losing them.

As others very astutely pointed out, if we simply signed Broberg to that extension people would justifiably riot. Holloway as well to a lesser degree.

Broberg has played all of about 3-5 games in the NHL where he was obviously a positive contributor. It's absolutely insane to me that people want to match this sheet on the basis of a handful of games where you actually noticed him for once.
 

Oilslick941611

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
16,314
16,884
Ottawa
The weirdest thing about this whole situation is how many fans 180'd on these two players (especially Broberg) to get to the pitchforks. I swear I was a bigger fan of these players than most of the fans ready to riot over losing them.
I never considered them game breakers. They are bottom 6 and bottom pair D fodder on our team.

At the offer sheet prices they offer no advantage to have them on our team.

We fill thier 10-12 minutes with Bakersfield players if we don’t get replacements before the season. Perhaps in the future they might have been and higher in the depth chart but over the next two years no way they perform to the dollar value of the contracts. It’s an easy walk for me. We aren’t talking about a second line winger or top 4 d man here
 

CDN24

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
3,680
3,115
I think this example highlights exactly why this doesn't happen more often and why the Oilers seem somewhat unprepared for the fact that it did.

To get a team that is as hard up to the cap as you can get to even think about walking away they had to give a player a contract at 300% of his projected value. Teams willingly take this risk all the time because who in their right mind would ever do that?
I think over the last 4 years you didn't see much of it because no one had much extra cap space. You will rarely see it with true High end players as you can't overpay enough in dollars or term without coming up against the 4 1st round picks. Mtl tried with Aho but were unwilling to get into the 4 1st rounder compensation so all they could do was attack Carolina's perceived lack of cashflow by front loading/bonus loading as much as possible. Carolina had the cap space to match, Mtl was hoping they didn't have the cash flow to match the structure.

Where a offersheet makes sense and is relatively low risk is exactly in a scenario like this one. Signing him to 300% seems like a lot but it isn't. Its about 6M spread out over 2 years to get your hands on a former high 1st rounder who looks ready to break out. In the Sean Monahan trade (Cal to Mtl) if we go back to when it happened when most though Monahan was done, Mtl essentially paid 6.75M in real cash and a 1 yr cap hit to get a late 1st round pick. I think Broberg has more value than a late 1st. So the Blues are paying a 2nd (compensation) and 6M over 2 yrs for Broberg who i think we can agree is worth more than a late 1st (Edm would not have traded him 4 a late 1st at this years draft)?

Why does it not happen more often, you need a team willing to do it like St Louis with some extra cap space and you need a team that puts themselves in a vulnerable situation by spending most if not all their cap space on the UFA market and does not save enough to sign their RFAs who are eligible for an offer sheet. Especially when its more than one guy then you open yourself up to the 2 offer sheet attack st louis used

Ottawa put themselves in the same situation with Pinto last year after they signed Tarasenko. I expected one then that would have been structured to make it hard for sens to match. The Broberg type contract at the max of the 2nd round compensation would have done it as ottawa would have needed multiple subtractions to become compliant. Sens may have got lucky with his Gambling issue scaring would be offer sheets off.

From the side of a team who is willing to do it, needs to be a team with lots of real money and cap space. Most of the big $$ teams are usually close to the cap but what about when they are rebuilding? why don't teams like Mtl and Chicago why have the dollars do it now while rebuilding? probably worried about the revenge offer sheet. a rebuilding team will have lots of promising RFAs coming and some they will try to walk the line with on short term low value deals until they know what they have- can't give everyone 8X 8M after 2 years into ELC.

At the end of the day this happened because Oilers put themselves in a vulnerable spot. Had they left a little flexibility St louis would not have tried as its not in their interest to piss off a rival GM without a legit chance to get the player.
 

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
14,872
15,981
Why would that be? A player who has failed to crack the NHL gets an extension in January and refuses to take it is dumb to you? A player with no arb rights? Okay there buddy


Happens all the time. Tanev this year.

You're giving the exact reasons why he would have been dumb to sign in January.

There was zero risk of this player not getting an NHL deal. None. That wasn't a risk to be considered.

If he has no arb rights, the only leverage he possibly has is offer sheet. Why would his agent tell him to sign a bare bones deal around $1M AAV - A) before he comes back into the lineup to have a chance to improve his value - B) before he's traded with an opportunity to increase his value with a new team (remember, he asked for a trade) - C) gone into the off season to see if offer sheets are an option.

"Pfftt, he would have signed anything he wasn't in the NHL!" is a take that accounts for no pertinent facts whatsoever that would influence his likelihood to sign.
 

gordonhught

Registered User
Feb 18, 2009
14,524
13,496
I think over the last 4 years you didn't see much of it because no one had much extra cap space. You will rarely see it with true High end players as you can't overpay enough in dollars or term without coming up against the 4 1st round picks. Mtl tried with Aho but were unwilling to get into the 4 1st rounder compensation so all they could do was attack Carolina's perceived lack of cashflow by front loading/bonus loading as much as possible. Carolina had the cap space to match, Mtl was hoping they didn't have the cash flow to match the structure.

Where a offersheet makes sense and is relatively low risk is exactly in a scenario like this one. Signing him to 300% seems like a lot but it isn't. Its about 6M spread out over 2 years to get your hands on a former high 1st rounder who looks ready to break out. In the Sean Monahan trade (Cal to Mtl) if we go back to when it happened when most though Monahan was done, Mtl essentially paid 6.75M in real cash and a 1 yr cap hit to get a late 1st round pick. I think Broberg has more value than a late 1st. So the Blues are paying a 2nd (compensation) and 6M over 2 yrs for Broberg who i think we can agree is worth more than a late 1st (Edm would not have traded him 4 a late 1st at this years draft)?

Why does it not happen more often, you need a team willing to do it like St Louis with some extra cap space and you need a team that puts themselves in a vulnerable situation by spending most if not all their cap space on the UFA market and does not save enough to sign their RFAs who are eligible for an offer sheet. Especially when its more than one guy then you open yourself up to the 2 offer sheet attack st louis used

Ottawa put themselves in the same situation with Pinto last year after they signed Tarasenko. I expected one then that would have been structured to make it hard for sens to match. The Broberg type contract at the max of the 2nd round compensation would have done it as ottawa would have needed multiple subtractions to become compliant. Sens may have got lucky with his Gambling issue scaring would be offer sheets off.

From the side of a team who is willing to do it, needs to be a team with lots of real money and cap space. Most of the big $$ teams are usually close to the cap but what about when they are rebuilding? why don't teams like Mtl and Chicago why have the dollars do it now while rebuilding? probably worried about the revenge offer sheet. a rebuilding team will have lots of promising RFAs coming and some they will try to walk the line with on short term low value deals until they know what they have- can't give everyone 8X 8M after 2 years into ELC.

At the end of the day this happened because Oilers put themselves in a vulnerable spot. Had they left a little flexibility St louis would not have tried as its not in their interest to piss off a rival GM without a legit chance to get the player.
Who is matching what?
 

Slats432

Registered User
Jun 2, 2002
15,282
3,663
hockeypedia.com
Says every teams fan base in the nhl bar one.
This is absolutely not true. Most fan bases know where they are at. There are 6-8 real contenders every year. You think Montreal or Buffalo or Ottawa or Philadelphia in the last few years fan bases would think, "Oh just one or two more moves and we would have had the cup."

That's nonsense.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
16,361
18,029
Vancouver
People act like losing Broberg is the worst. No bad is the injury to klef, sekura injury needing a buyout and losing Larson.

Compared to that this is unfortunate but not the end of the world.

Broberg may become good like a klef type player decent but not elite or he can become a Jeff finger mistake.

They offer sucka but they aren't worth the money. Take the picks and move on

Yamo, and pul made me care less about what Holloway may be as a loss. If to isn't a deal let the player go. We already overpaid those two and lost picks to get rid of them. I don't want to get into that again over Holloway
It's a pretty contained risk by St. Louis with financial; cost of a 2nd round lottery ticket; 2 year runway to test drive; and a need with both an old d-corp and one of the pieces on LTIR. As an organization, St. Louis has shown pretty good track record in identifying and building a strong d-corp to drive team success ... all the way to a Stanley Cup. I think their read on Broberg and associated risk is reasonable. It's an easy, manageable move within their work to retool versus rebuild their organization window.

The Oilers d-corp meanwhile have only Bouchard and Nurse under age 30 with only mid-range hopefuls Akey and Wanner. While I feel very optimistic Draisaitl and McDavid both re-sign there is a leap of faith this management group can sustain a legitimate winning window in about 3 years.

Hollowing out their two best NHL age 24 players and under creates a big gap. Especially on a team with one of the weakest prospect systems and marginal drafting work in the league.
 

ManofSteel55

Registered User
Aug 15, 2013
33,395
13,866
Sylvan Lake, Alberta
Right, and then what money will you guys have to offer-sheet Neighbors?
Leon costs minimum $11 million, Oilers have $18m next year, with EVAN BOUCHARD also RFA. Ceci and a couple other depth forwards also need new contracts.

The Blues can easily sign Neighbors and Hofer first with their $15 million, and then fill the rest of the roster with the depth they'd need to retain (Faksa, Toropchenko, Kapanen, Perunovich, Suter). Good luck,
The Oilers won't be in any situation to offer sheet anyone for the near future, that's obvious given the teams cap structure, window to win, and repeated trading of draft picks. Anyone suggesting the Oilers will "retaliate" over this are being emotional, not rational.
 

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