Confirmed with Link: Oilers Do Not Match Broberg ($4.58M X2) & Holloway ($2.29M x 2) Offer Sheets | Oilers acquire STL 3rd '28 & Paul Fischer for Futures

[JordanGalhanth]

In my mind, there's really only one place where management clearly messed up...

...don't ever, ever, EVER draft a kid who grew up cheering for the Shames.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

I do kinda hope that 2nd rounder is a very high 2nd rounder. Gonna have to pound the Blues every game this season and trade that pick.

 

[KlimasLoveChild]

Information is coming from one side that is being filtered to other people.

It’s not new.

None of what has been released by that side is earth shattering and will change people’s positions on this issue.

It’s just basically people repeating their same position over and over.

If something truly new comes out then the renewed discussion would definitely be far more interesting.

But by all means continue. I’m tapping out on this particular discussion.

I believe this is actually the first time it was confirmed that they had an offer sheet in hand before starting negotiations with Edmonton. That changes things. Therefore it was discussed. You are negotiating in bad faith in my opinion. Which is why the oilers were weird. It changes my entire opinion of Holloway and how things went down. It was originally painted out like he was a dupe in the whole process and likely shoe horned into it at the last minute. That was clearly not the case. This guy took the take less to win pact and wiped his ass with it. See ya later.

 

[North]

I believe this is actually the first time it was confirmed that they had an offer sheet in hand before starting negotiations with Edmonton. That changes things. Therefore it was discussed. You are negotiating in bad faith in my opinion. Which is why the oilers were weird. It changes my entire opinion of Holloway and how things went down. It was originally painted out like he was a dupe in the whole process and likely shoe horned into it at the last minute. That was clearly not the case. This guy took the take less to win pact and wiped his ass with it. See ya later.

I haven’t felt he was an innocent dupe for quite awhile.

The timing and structure of the deals speak to that.

He’s upset because while he knew he might possibly end up with the Blues, he thought the Oilers would match because his dollar value was lower than Broberg’s. Just my opinion.

I love that the Oilers made space but declined to match.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I haven’t felt he was an innocent dupe for quite awhile.

The timing and structure of the deals speak to that.

He’s upset because while he knew he might possibly end up with the Blues, he thought the Oilers would match because his dollar value was lower than Broberg’s. Just my opinion.

I love that the Oilers made space but declined to match.

I also love that the oilers had the room and didn’t match, sends a message that he’s not worth that

 

[McBooya42]

I also love that the oilers had the room and didn’t match, sends a message that he’s not worth that

Because he wasn't.

 

[Frank the Tank]

LeBrun article in the Athletic this morning finally has Bowman responding to the one-sided narrative Broberg's agent, Armstrong, and the two players have been feeding the media (care of Blues homer Andy Strickland).

Speaking of narratives, Bowman disagrees with the notion that the Oilers low-balled Broberg and Holloway in contract talks.

“The way it’s being portrayed is also a little bit unfair, that the Oilers were doing some sort of poor-faith negotiating,” Bowman said. “If you look at both those players, based on their performance, there’s lots of comparable players that have signed this summer and recent years.”

Restricted free agents coming out of entry-level deals have very little leverage — unless of course, they sign an offer sheet.

But as far as the Oilers looking back and realizing they should have offered more, Bowman isn’t buying it. Not to where those contracts got with St. Louis.

“The players can probably grow into those deals, but as of today, they’re way above their actual performance,” Bowman said.

 

[CycloneSweep]

LeBrun article in the Athletic this morning finally has Bowman responding to the one-sided narrative Broberg's agent, Armstrong, and the two players have been feeding the media (care of Blues homer Andy Strickland).

He isn’t wrong.
Both guys spent time in the AHL last year because they weren’t good enough to be full time NHLers yet.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

He isn’t wrong.
Both guys spent time in the AHL last year because they weren’t good enough to be full time NHLers yet.

I mean no, but they did spend time in the AHL and were better for it. This is still on Stan and the organization for not treating the players like they have value

LeBrun article in the Athletic this morning finally has Bowman responding to the one-sided narrative Broberg's agent, Armstrong, and the two players have been feeding the media (care of Blues homer Andy Strickland).

Ah so he low balled them (f***ed around) and it went how you would expect (found out)

If the team doesn't value the performance in the playoffs, then they deserve this, honestly

 

[CycloneSweep]

I mean no, but they did spend time in the AHL and were better for it. This is still on Stan and the organization for not treating the players like they have value


Ah so he low balled them (f***ed around) and it went how you would expect (found out)

If the team doesn't value the performance in the playoffs, then they deserve this, honestly

“Low balled”. 2 young players who had a single small sample size of “good” play getting offered a contract around their value is low balling them?

 

[K1984]

Good read on the process and how things shook out:

"It was weird the way they handled it": Dylan Holloway criticizes Edmonton Oilers negotiating tactics. Hmm

"It was weird the way they handled it": Dylan Holloway criticizes Edmonton Oilers negotiating

edmontonjournal.com

“Weird how they handled it”

Speaking from a position of sage experience signing a grand total of zero contracts after the ELC while splitting his career between the IR and the AHL.

Just shut up and take your money.

 

[brentashton]

I mean no, but they did spend time in the AHL and were better for it. This is still on Stan and the organization for not treating the players like they have value


Ah so he low balled them (f***ed around) and it went how you would expect (found out)

If the team doesn't value the performance in the playoffs, then they deserve this, honestly

How do you get that from the article?

I read that they offered them contracts that were directly comparable to other similar players with similar games played and production. That was the market valuation.

The outlier was a renegade offer sheet was presented by another team that was significantly outside of the expected salary grid for the unsigned players, given their experience and production.

That’s not lowballing. St Louis decided to overpay the market price. Oilers elected not to and moved on.

 

[K1984]

How do you get that from the article?

I read that they offered them contracts that were directly comparable to other similar players with similar games played and production. That was the market valuation.

The outlier was a renegade offer sheet was presented by another team that was significantly outside of the expected salary grid for the unsigned players, given their experience and production.

That’s not lowballing. St Louis decided to overpay the market price. Oilers elected not to and moved on.

If the Oilers signed those two on their own for even half the AAV they ended up getting people here would have been screaming. “They didn’t have arb rights and no track record, did Stan even negotiate!?”

Only when they’re gone the blame has to go somewhere somehow, so now that would have been ok I guess.

 

[TB12]

LeBrun article in the Athletic this morning finally has Bowman responding to the one-sided narrative Broberg's agent, Armstrong, and the two players have been feeding the media (care of Blues homer Andy Strickland).

Boom. Roasted.

Well said by Bowman.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I mean no, but they did spend time in the AHL and were better for it. This is still on Stan and the organization for not treating the players like they have value


Ah so he low balled them (f***ed around) and it went how you would expect (found out)

If the team doesn't value the performance in the playoffs, then they deserve this, honestly

Did you even read what bowman said?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

LeBrun article in the Athletic this morning finally has Bowman responding to the one-sided narrative Broberg's agent, Armstrong, and the two players have been feeding the media (care of Blues homer Andy Strickland).

And that is the difference between a team that is up against the cap and trying to win now vs. overpaying someone now so that they're hopefully worth it 2-3 years from now.

 

[alphahelix]

If the Oilers signed those two on their own for even half the AAV they ended up getting people here would have been screaming. “They didn’t have arb rights and no track record, did Stan even negotiate!?”

Only when they’re gone the blame has to go somewhere somehow, so now that would have been ok I guess.

If they signed them to half these contracts, people might balk, but if Stan Bowman came out and said: “They had gigantic offer sheets tabled by rival teams taking a run at them. We had to compromise to keep them” , they would instantly be forgiven. Because ultimately, they’re easily, easily, EASILY worth half what they’re getting paid. Potential is still majorly on the table, and they’re effective right now.

 

[AM]

“Low balled”. 2 young players who had a single small sample size of “good” play getting offered a contract around their value is low balling them?

The blues did us a favour. If these guys wanted to get paid they need to move on.

 

[Fourier]

He isn’t wrong.
Both guys spent time in the AHL last year because they weren’t good enough to be full time NHLers yet.

Not only is he not wrong, but he is absolutely correct. As much as losing these guys is a risk, giving them more that they were worth right now could have been much more damaging to the team's chances of winning in the next two years.

 

[Fourier]

If the Oilers signed those two on their own for even half the AAV they ended up getting people here would have been screaming. “They didn’t have arb rights and no track record, did Stan even negotiate!?”

Only when they’re gone the blame has to go somewhere somehow, so now that would have been ok I guess.

The bolded is exactly right.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

How do you get that from the article?

I read that they offered them contracts that were directly comparable to other similar players with similar games played and production. That was the market valuation.

The outlier was a renegade offer sheet was presented by another team that was significantly outside of the expected salary grid for the unsigned players, given their experience and production.

That’s not lowballing. St Louis decided to overpay the market price. Oilers elected not to and moved on.

The Oilers contract offers were based on solid comparables. That's been disclosed before. The issue is that they misread a bull market with $5 million more cash finally coming out of the covid cap stalled years and at least one GM (the poacher himself) proclaiming that all things including offer sheets were on the table to effect change for his franchise.

Unfortunately the Oilers weren't able to do like Detroit who, in a different phase of development, could squirrel $17 - $18 million in cap space to ward off prospective RFA offer sheets. The Oilers were vulnerable financially, had a known damaged player relationship, and were lulled into complacency thinking that status quo would enable them to smoke out their two profile RFA's coming off playoff proving points. Bowman even alludes to his Chicago time when a similar competitive Hawks team were offer sheeted and would up losing a player. So it seems strange the Oilers decision with their vulnerability was inaction until the market acted in mid-August and re-priced their two quality support players well beyond Edmonton's ability and willingness to pay. Just like it did in Chicago.

They had executed a strong move to flush McLeod early in free agency for a pedigree, near NHL ready prospect off their cap book. A pro-active hard call on support, younger talent. It's not unreasonable to think they could have been more active with their prize RFA's to gage their ability to re-sign within a fixed budget line for each. And if not likely to do so, to actively explore trade options (which would naturally likely have started with the GM who discussed interest in both the past two trade deadlines). Protect your assets, mitigate against vulnerability, and manage your budget.


EDIT: clarified Hawks not double sheeted but lost a player when San Jose signed a player once the Hawks were squeezed matching.

 

[Fourier]

The Oilers contract offers were based on solid comparables. That's been disclosed before. The issue is that they misread a bull market with $5 million more cash finally coming out of the covid cap stalled years and at least one GM (the poacher himself) proclaiming that all things including offer sheets were on the table to effect change for his franchise.

Unfortunately the Oilers weren't able to do like Detroit who, in a different phase of development, could squirrel $17 - $18 million in cap space to ward off prospective RFA offer sheets. The Oilers were vulnerable financially, had a known damaged player relationship, and were lulled into complacency thinking that status quo would enable them to smoke out their two profile RFA's coming off playoff proving points. Bowman even alludes to his Chicago time when a similar competitive Hawks team were offer sheeted and would up losing a player. So it seems strange the Oilers decision with their vulnerability was inaction until the market acted in mid-August and re-priced their two quality support players well beyond Edmonton's ability and willingness to pay. Just like it did in Chicago.

They had executed a strong move to flush McLeod early in free agency for a pedigree, near NHL ready prospect off their cap book. A pro-active hard call on support, younger talent. It's not unreasonable to think they could have been more active with their prize RFA's to gage their ability to re-sign within a fixed budget line for each. And if not likely to do so, to actively explore trade options (which would naturally likely have started with the GM who discussed interest in both the past two trade deadlines). Protect your assets, mitigate against vulnerability, and manage your budget.


EDIT: clarified Hawks not double sheeted but lost a player when San Jose signed a player once the Hawks were squeezed matching.

Again, I don't think there is compelling evidence to support a missed bull market for players like Holloway or Broberg. Nor does there appear to be a big push to have OS's. Look at Nick Robertson. He was viewed recently as a very important young prospect for the Leafs. Holloway of course is bigger and has a higher draft pedigree but Robertson has out produced him at both the NHL and AHL level. He asked to be traded. The Leafs just won't give in and only now are there some noises about Carolina possibly giving him a OS. If they do, and it is anywhere close to that of Holloway's then he is not going to be a Leaf.

Nashville still has not signed Tomisino. He's a guy I really liked in his draft year (Broberg's year). He had 7 goals and 20 points last year in 41 games. They just re-signed Parssinen fro $775K.

Sillinger had 16 goals and 31 points as an 18 year old. CBJ signed him to two year $2.25M contract on August 21.

JOrdan Spence signed a 2 year deal for $1.5M per on August 1.

Thomas Harley and Mortiz Seider are both still unsigned. So are Mercer, Perfetti and Raymond. CBJ could throw one of these guys a huge OS.

So far it looks like one GM wanted two very specific players and maybe really just badly wanted one guy and used the other as a tool.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Again, I don't think there is compelling evidence to support a missed bull market for players like Holloway or Broberg. Nor does there appear to be a big push to have OS's. Look at Nick Robertson. He was viewed recently as a very important young prospect for the Leafs. Holloway of course is bigger and has a higher draft pedigree but Robertson has out produced him at both the NHL and AHL level. He asked to be traded. The Leafs just won't give in and only now are there some noises about Carolina possibly giving him a OS. If they do, and it is anywhere close to that of Holloway's then he is not going to be a Leaf.

Nashville still has not signed Tomisino. He's a guy I really liked in his draft year (Broberg's year). He had 7 goals and 20 points last year in 41 games. They just re-signed Parssinen fro $775K.

Sillinger had 16 goals and 31 points as an 18 year old. CBJ signed him to two year $2.25M contract on August 21.

JOrdan Spence signed a 2 year deal for $1.5M per on August 1.

Thomas Harley and Mortiz Seider are both still unsigned. So are Mercer, Perfetti and Raymond. CBJ could throw one of these guys a huge OS.

So far it looks like one GM wanted two very specific players and maybe really just badly wanted one guy and used the other as a tool.

The bull market was a record $1 billion spend on day 1 of free agency. With a huge cash influx and projections for every year to follow the market conditions were evolved beyond covid flat cap and the spending affirmed it.

Making comparisons to Holloway are pointless. There's no trade market for a small Nick Robertson let alone an RFA one for a secondary winger. Not the type of player you waste your RFA bullets on. Holloway was a means to an end with a historic double offer sheet by one team. Well articulated by Armstrong across multiple reporting sources.

The poacher was known to Oilers management. The players discussed over the past two trade deadlines. The Oilers were vulnerable and had a damaged relationship with Broberg. Even Holloway viewed his development and opportunity path differently than the team did.

Harley, Seider are elite prospects who are proven elite young talent going to garner a next tier RFA offer sheet to even have a sniff at poaching them. Detroit able to protect itself with tons of cap space is acting pro-actively to ward off even a remote consideration. This historic precedent worked because of the double RFA threat, cap exposure, and big future contracts pending on core franchise guys. Edmonton's management group missed the danger signs which enabled the market to set the pricing on two young NHL ready players only now aging into peak years performance range. Leveraged offer sheets nestled right below at the cheapest return available.

Bowman's own mature phase window experience he actually had direct experience with offer sheeting and having to make a hard call when the market acted to set pricing. He's been there so it's reasonable to plan to mitigate such a double indemnity threat.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Again, I don't think there is compelling evidence to support a missed bull market for players like Holloway or Broberg. Nor does there appear to be a big push to have OS's. Look at Nick Robertson. He was viewed recently as a very important young prospect for the Leafs. Holloway of course is bigger and has a higher draft pedigree but Robertson has out produced him at both the NHL and AHL level. He asked to be traded. The Leafs just won't give in and only now are there some noises about Carolina possibly giving him a OS. If they do, and it is anywhere close to that of Holloway's then he is not going to be a Leaf.

Nashville still has not signed Tomisino. He's a guy I really liked in his draft year (Broberg's year). He had 7 goals and 20 points last year in 41 games. They just re-signed Parssinen fro $775K.

Sillinger had 16 goals and 31 points as an 18 year old. CBJ signed him to two year $2.25M contract on August 21.

JOrdan Spence signed a 2 year deal for $1.5M per on August 1.

Thomas Harley and Mortiz Seider are both still unsigned. So are Mercer, Perfetti and Raymond. CBJ could throw one of these guys a huge OS.

So far it looks like one GM wanted two very specific players and maybe really just badly wanted one guy and used the other as a tool.

Funny how the Oil are the only casualties of predatory offer sheets even though other clubs are likewise hard pressed against the cap ceiling.

 

[Fourier]

The bull market was a record $1 billion spend on day 1 of free agency. With a huge cash influx and projections for every year to follow the market conditions were evolved beyond covid flat cap and the spending affirmed it.

Making comparisons to Holloway are pointless. There's no trade market for a small Nick Robertson let alone an RFA one for a secondary winger. Not the type of player you waste your RFA bullets on. Holloway was a means to an end with a historic double offer sheet by one team. Well articulated by Armstrong across multiple reporting sources.

The poacher was known to Oilers management. The players discussed over the past two trade deadlines. The Oilers were vulnerable and had a damaged relationship with Broberg. Even Holloway viewed his development and opportunity path differently than the team did.

Harley, Seider are elite prospects who are proven elite young talent going to garner a next tier RFA offer sheet to even have a sniff at poaching them. Detroit able to protect itself with tons of cap space is acting pro-actively to ward off even a remote consideration. This historic precedent worked because of the double RFA threat, cap exposure, and big future contracts pending on core franchise guys. Edmonton's management group missed the danger signs which enabled the market to set the pricing on two young NHL ready players only now aging into peak years performance range. Leveraged offer sheets nestled right below at the cheapest return available.

Bowman's own mature phase window experience he actually had direct experience with offer sheeting and having to make a hard call when the market acted to set pricing. He's been there so it's reasonable to plan to mitigate such a double indemnity threat.

The patterns for times when the cap rises have been consistent throughout the cap years. The top dogs and key RFA's get big raises setting a new bar and it then trickles down. Every time this happens RFA's coming off ECL's and aging vets get squeezed. And with the exception of Holloway and Broberg, this is the pattern we are seeing right now. Until we see a change in behaviour that shows things are really different this looks like an anomaly.

In the end Bowman offered both players reasonable deals and they chose to go the OS route. He then made deals that mostly mitigated the loss in the short run. Maybe he could have gotten a little more had he traded the players but I am not really convinced the value would have been much different.

A few years down the road they may regret not having these two, But the reality is that at much more than they were offered each player would have been a drag on the team over this year and probably next unless they took a big step forward.

Funny how the Oil are the only casualties of predatory offer sheets even though other clubs are likewise hard pressed against the cap ceiling.

As I said previously, I think this is just a consequence of one GM wanting one particular player that fits his teams long term needs.