Post-Game Talk: Oilers are good at shootouts now?

[Drivesaitl]

that was a bad goal, but it was the 1-0 goal...not a 3rd period softy...when the goals are scored matters as much as how they are scored

he also made some key saves in the 3rd, especially on the PP where the Oilers were all over the Knights but couldn't make it 5-2 because Thompson made the saves he needed to

once again, Skinner was the 2nd best goalie on the ice tonight

What isn't being mentioned is the 4 goals in total. Nobody is faulting Skinner for the 4th goal. But all 3 before it ought to have been stops. The first two he's too low in the crouch, and I don't know why soembody tall would not maximize height while being in butterfly. If he simply is up straighter on those instead of crouching neither go in. Both of the first two goals went over his shoulder. 3rd goal obviously bad.

The trouble is Skinner is also not using his paddle for anything. Adin Hill would have poke checked that puck away on that setplay off the faceoff. Of course Skinner doesn't do something like that and its not even in his repertoire.

Then you have Skinner leaving rebounds all over the place.

The Oilers played as controlled a game as its possible to play, they limited as much as possible, and they still get 4GA. its beyond the pale.

people should watch almost any other games and the kind of goaltending teams are getting in relation to ours.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Right because Kolesar sitting wide open at the side of the net was Skinner's fault. Imagine if Skinner would have let the goals Thompson let in especially Gagner's goal. Embarrassing some of these comments.

It would have been nice if somebody got Kolesars stick, but that was one FLUKE goal.

It was going wayyy wide and this guy batted that hard pass out of the air lol

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

I am really starting to like that Hamblin kid he sure hustles on every shift and you can see the confidence in his game since he sniped his first goal, Would like to see him get some 2nd unit PP time he is a smart player

Yep me too. He has good speed, plays hard and with tenacity. If McLeod had a tenth of Hamblin's "give a shit", he'd be a top six player in this league.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I will say this, at least the team is stitching together a much better 200ft game and they are dominating in that way. Last 3 games particularly teams have not even got a sniff. The team is playing well. But its concerning to me we're hearing nothing about the goaltender acquisition. Right now production wise Connor McDavid has the club on his back. But how long can we expect that and how long can we reasonable expect run support of 5 or more goals. The situation with Skinner in net is dire. This is a loss if we don't score 5.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep me too. He has good speed, plays hard and with tenacity. If McLeod had a tenth of Hamblin's "give a shit", he'd be a top six player in this league.

McLeod is un physical but he's getting a bit typecast as well. He certainly gives a shit, works, hard, skates miles and is a decent 200ft player with hands made of straw. its not the try element missing its he can't cash anything right now. That happens to tweener players. Its happening to the whole line despite them being half decent. But at worst McLeod is usually a guy you can put out there and not get scored against. That this isn't apparent this season is due to the worst goaltending in the league. its not attributable to the player specifically.

McLeod has world class speed and uses it for cover and pressuring back on pucks. He's not a liability.

 

[AM]

Having a picnic has zero to do with whether or not the next shot is stoppable or not.

Oilers playing near perfect defensively has zero impact on how major or minor the next breakdown is going to be.

It doesn't matter if we "needed" the save or not either. All of this "boy we really needed a save there, we were playing so well" is hocus pocus. If you believe in that nonsense it's no wonder you'd think goalies are voodoo. Go ahead and live in that reality.

Where I live, these are discrete events and aren't related to each other.

I'm telling you that third goal was very likely not visible to Skinner in time for him to react to it. It came through the legs of a sliding Erne... Erne was in the shooting lane before he went down and continued to strafe across the sight line until the shot was made... he didn't do anything wrong, other than being in no-mans land (harder to see around) and miss the block. If you try to block you risk you goalie not seeing the puck especially if are in no-mans land... and that's exactly what happened.

Does Connor Hellebuyck stop that shot? Maybe... only maybe. Maybe Connor Hellebuyck doesn't have his forwards trying to do his job as much because they trust him to stop the puck... I understand that can also happen when goalies are struggling.

I'm just saying on that particular play, it's tough to blame Skinner and us "wanting" or "needing" a save at that point is irrelevant to the point that you are talking voodoo.

We can certainly agree on Thompson not being an NHL goalie and Skinner not being a quality NHL starter. These are separate issues.

It a part of the goalies job to be in a position to see the puck released from the stick. Judging by his body language he is struggling with that.

 

[snag]

That hair toss though. its Grade A Mike Smith impersonation.

I don't get Skinner at all. Guy is all full of himself and he's the worst goalie playing in the league right now but he's got the cocksure grin all the time like he's a stud.

You'd think the guy would be humble.

In that position at that level, I would imagine you need to maintain some level of swagger regardless of what you are internalizing. (which considering the shit being piled on him, I would imagine is a lot)

 

[AM]

I will say this, at least the team is stitching together a much better 200ft game and they are dominating in that way. Last 3 games particularly teams have not even got a sniff. The team is playing well. But it’s concerning to me we're hearing nothing about the goaltender acquisition. Right now production wise Connor McDavid has the club on his back. But how long can we expect that and how long can we reasonable expect run support of 5 or more goals. The situation with Skinner in net is dire. This is a loss if we don't score 5.

Goal tending is going to be an ongoing situation.

 

[Drivesaitl]

In that position at that level, I would imagine you need to maintain some level of swagger regardless of what you are internalizing. (which considering the shit being piled on him, I would imagine is a lot)

Its fair. But its frustrating and a rant. I get it out of my system doing this. My response during games is audibly "f***ing Skinner" I'm sure I'm not the only one. Every time he's shitting on the ice with the goal light flashing....grrrrrr heh

Goal tending is going to be an ongoing situation.

Ongoingly frustrating. Yes, I got the memo.

We're seeing fantastic games from McD, the best player on the planet. But Skinner is the great leveler. Its like he's playing for the opposition.

 

[alphahelix]

People need to remember Skinner is a sophomore Edmontonian and CHILL. Its not his fault Ken Holland blew his wad on a fragile never-was, saw ample evidence last year that he had made a tragic mistake, and then did absolutely nothing to address it. This is on Jack Campbell and Ken Holland. Stuart Skinner is a warrior and hes the only reason we made the playoffs last year and the only reason we arent already out of it this year. He has done way more than he should have been asked for Edmonton. Most sophomore goalies would be sitting at like 20GP career right now still getting their feet wet. He almost won the calder and despite a sketchy start destabilized by Campbell and all the pressure on his shoulders AGAIN, he is digging his/our way up out of this chasm.

There are times to be critical and call people out, and there are times to cheer like hell and get behind your boy. This is the latter.

Obviously it should go without saying that behind the scenes Holland should be doing his goddam job and securing a reliable 1A/1B to tandem with Skinner and take the pressure off this straight up sophomore G.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I am really starting to like that Hamblin kid he sure hustles on every shift and you can see the confidence in his game since he sniped his first goal, Would like to see him get some 2nd unit PP time he is a smart player

He’s played his way onto the team as the 4C for sure. He’d be better on the PP than McLoed who’s an utter waste of time there.

 

[McTonyBrar]

 

[Tobias Kahun]

That hair toss though. its Grade A Mike Smith impersonation.

I don't get Skinner at all. Guy is all full of himself and he's the worst goalie playing in the league right now but he's got the cocksure grin all the time like he's a stud.

You'd think the guy would be humble.

So when skinner plays bad you want him replaced.

When Campbell plays like shit you blame it on the oilers and get upset when they don’t let him play through it.

 

[TheNumber4]

Am I the only one that thought McLeod looked better tonight? He's still not where I want him, but that third line was pretty good the whole night. Our third line led the team in CF% tonight, with McL leading the team at 70.83%. I need to see some f***ing finish, but, overall, I'm happy with how they looked tonight.

I thought his game was coming around the last couple games. He’s making good puck touches and generating some looks.

That said, He’s still soft though on his checking duties, and he made a pretty big error on coverage on that Kolesar goal.

 

[belair]

He plays better when he has two black eyes, too. Keep that in mind.

 

[TheNumber4]

Fu**in cuk of a player. I love how he grabs is face when he got tapped on the lower side neck area? lol

Lol the head snap was so egregious. No f***in shame.

 

[Drivesaitl]

People need to remember Skinner is a sophomore Edmontonian and CHILL. Its not his fault Ken Holland blew his wad on a fragile never-was, saw ample evidence last year that he had made a tragic mistake, and then did absolutely nothing to address it. This is on Jack Campbell and Ken Holland. Stuart Skinner is a warrior and hes the only reason we made the playoffs last year and the only reason we arent already out of it this year. He has done way more than he should have been asked for Edmonton. Most sophomore goalies would be sitting at like 20GP career right now still getting their feet wet. He almost won the calder and despite a sketchy start destabilized by Campbell and all the pressure on his shoulders AGAIN, he is digging his/our way up out of this chasm.

There are times to be critical and call people out, and there are times to cheer like hell and get behind your boy. This is the latter.

Obviously it should go without saying that behind the scenes Holland should be doing his goddam job and securing a reliable 1A/1B to tandem with Skinner and take the pressure off this straight up sophomore G.

As much as he pretends to be Mike Smith I really doubt this.

Our views are different but my take is Skinner is just like so many other goalies that did OK briefly and then fell apart once NHL pressure got hold of him. As others have mentioned Skinner can't play more than 2 games in a row without being a sieve.

The Almost won the Calder means very little. He wasn't great last season, he was playing a bit more than half the games on what was a great team. A team that gave him the kind of run support wherein pressure wasn't even there. Soon as pressure was there, in the playoffs, he folded like a cheap tent. He was worse than Laurent Brossoit, worse than Korpisalo, of course worse than Adin Hill.

Startling actually to me that people can pretend this is some allstar goalie. He isn't.

So when skinner plays bad you want him replaced.

When Campbell plays like shit you blame it on the oilers and get upset when they don’t let him play through it.

So when you strawman you strawman. Got it.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

As much as he pretends to be Mike Smith I really doubt this.

Our views are different but my take is Skinner is just like so many other goalies that did OK briefly and then fell apart once NHL pressure got hold of him. As others have mentioned Skinner can't play more than 2 games in a row without being a sieve.

The Almost won the Calder means very little. He wasn't great last season, he was playing a bit more than half the games on what was a great team. A team that gave him the kind of run support wherein pressure wasn't even there. Soon as pressure was there, in the playoffs, he folded like a cheap tent. He was worse than Laurent Brossoit, worse than Korpisalo, of course worse than Adin Hill.

Startling actually to me that people can pretend this is some allstar goalie. He isn't.


So when you strawman you strawman. Got it.

Weren’t you blaming the goalie deployment on why Campbell was bad? He wasn’t getting enough starts?

 

[alphahelix]

As much as he pretends to be Mike Smith I really doubt this.

Our views are different but my take is Skinner is just like so many other goalies that did OK briefly and then fell apart once NHL pressure got hold of him. As others have mentioned Skinner can't play more than 2 games in a row without being a sieve.

The Almost won the Calder means very little. He wasn't great last season, he was playing a bit more than half the games on what was a great team. A team that gave him the kind of run support wherein pressure wasn't even there. Soon as pressure was there, in the playoffs, he folded like a cheap tent. He was worse than Laurent Brossoit, worse than Korpisalo, of course worse than Adin Hill.

Startling actually to me that people can pretend this is some allstar goalie. He isn't.


So when you strawman you strawman. Got it.

Bro if this team had NHL Sv% Leader Adin Hill we'd have a cup and be undefeated this season. You compare skinner to him like its a big negative. Korpisalo would be a gigantic upgrade on Campbell. Brossoit would be perfect to tandem with Skinner.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Was very interesting to hear gregor talk about our pk yesterday and then ask Ekholm after the game.

Essentially Gregor went back and watched all the penalty kills this year to see what differences there are from Woody to Knobby. Essentially same system, but we are blocking way more shots. Guys seem to just be getting into the lanes.

Amazing how guys just doing their jobs can get such better results.

I think they are staying a little closer together as well. Tighter box.

We are already seeing a controlled break out in which the boys sliced the middle of the ice last night. Vegas was so used to crowding the boards and trying to intercept the neutral zone but we went up the middle with speed. Dam it was fun to see them have no answers for that play last night.

I loved that. This is what I complain about in every GDT. How Edmonton throws the puck away too much and just whips it out with no purpose.

I have never played competitive hockey, but the other thing that annoys me is when players just throw the puck away for a line change. I guess it lowers any potential mistakes? Why doesn't one guy just circle back a bit and then throw it to a new guy and then get off? lol. Makes for more possession.

I remember saying Coffey like 8 years ago or so said in an article that he hated when plays were not being made and players threw the puck away too much.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

It's an interesting analogy. But baseball hitters 1 of 3 are wildly successful and largely a singular activity against a pitcher while goaltending 9 of 10 is largely average and result is highly interdependent to the team in front of them (along with high speed, high chaos nature of the game). A critical foundation upon which technique and athleticism rests is the mental strength, resiliency, coping and confidence. It's kind of like the iceberg analogy in which the majority of the iceberg itself is unseen, beneath the surface.

I've been interested in this for a wee bit especially around the mythology of goaltenders and especially so with the Oilers struggles and most recently with Jack Campbell. A few things I've come across that may or may not interest peeps on here:


U.S. Hockey Mental Skills Training (begins at 18 minute mark):

Ted Monnich: Ted Monnich - Mental Conditioning, Performance Coach

An Interesting Academic Thesis, Examining the Relationship Between Psychological Skills and Confidence in Goalkeepers: https://scholars.unh.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1203&context=thesis

"Confidence is largely associated with the ability to cope with adversity (Cresswell & Hodge, 2004). This may be due to the role confidence plays in the appraisal of situations, as confidence increases the effectiveness of coping strategies (Hardy et al, 1996). For instance, Cresswell and Hodge (2001) have shown that athletes who have high confidence were able to cope effectively by peaking under pressure and successfully dealing with adverse situations. Confident athletes use psychological skills and sources of efficacy to enhance their interpretation of events in a positive manner. Athletes who interpret events to gain confidence are often those who succeed at making it to higher levels of competition. Confidence is often a mental state that often distinguishes elite athletes from others."

"Sport confidence is defined as:
A relatively enduring belief system which is the result of the interaction between possessing an expectation that good things will happen
(dispositional optimism), believing one’s skills and abilities can successfully fulfill the demands of a sport task (sport competence), and a positive
estimation of the cause and effect contingency between one’s ability and the resultant performance and outcome."


For me, I think increasingly that drafting or trading for goaltenders without understanding their underlaying mental make-up and aptitude creates is an incomplete process that fails to identify the foundation of the house so to speak. Technique and athleticism can fail if the mental strength and aptitude aren't underpinning it.

Not always easy to get a read on the mental makeup of 17-19 year old kids, though I agree it’s an extremely important aspect and they should be doing all they can to improve how they scout and develop such a vital position.

I’m always reminded of the scene from moneyball where the scouts are sitting around discussing players and one of them pipes up something along the lines of he has had good tools but an ugly girlfriend to which someone asks why that would matter and the scout replies, ugly girlfriend, no confidence. I always thought that was funny.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Bro if this team had NHL Sv% Leader Adin Hill we'd have a cup and be undefeated this season. You compare skinner to him like its a big negative. Korpisalo would be a gigantic upgrade on Campbell. Brossoit would be perfect to tandem with Skinner.

Brossoit also sucks, why would he be a perfect tandem?

Brossoit getting injured is the only reason Vegas won the cup

 

[Drivesaitl]

Weren’t you blaming the goalie deployment on why Campbell was bad? He wasn’t getting enough starts?

Campbell has had 5 out of the clubs last 33starts despite being better than Skinner for the sum of that time going back to last playoffs. Is that enough to you? Has that been a fair and adequate division of labor?

We kicked one goalie in the junk, again, because he's not Woody or Schwartz's guy, and the other guy gets constant starts despite it seeming obvious he's not finding his game anytime soon. Even Pickard has been better, undeniably, in his 2 appearances.

 

[K1984]

I'm as hard on Nurse as the next guy, but he has no doubt been playing well lately and is a major impact player when he is.

Fingers crossed that this is the first time in a few years that he builds stability and consistency to his game. He's 100% a player when his head is in it.

 

[bucks_oil]

It a part of the goalies job to be in a position to see the puck released from the stick. Judging by his body language he is struggling with that.

There are many things that are part of a goalie's job. They aren't all 100% within their control, 100% of the time.

Here is the moment you are criticizing. I can't find the puck or see the stick, can you? Can Skinner? Tough to say with the angle, but the result and his reaction after say no.

I'm basing this on the crazy notion that if he made it all the way to the NHL, he actually i) has sharp enough vision to see pucks, and ii) can stop a routine wrister from 30 feet out, unless maybe there are other variables at play... in this case... iii) he couldn't see it and only had an opportunity to pick it up after it emerges from Erne's screen.

Goalie perspective on that block?
i) It would have been better if he just GTFOOTW.
ii) The only part of Erne's body that has a remote chance of blocking is his left leg.
iii) Even his left leg has three edges I'd be concerned about deflecting the puck... shin, calf and hamstring can all deflect it past me
iv) His hips, body and arm are all too high to stop a shot from that distance... anything that would hit them would be going high.
v) His right leg is also a huge problem anything going toward #43 can also be deflected in by that leg
vi) There are only two windows for Skinner to look at to try and find the puck, under the armpit or through the legs

For all you beer leaguers out there, this is NOT the way to do it. You don't have to go down, not asking or expecting that, but please, no matter what, get your legs together please, then I can choose to look left or right (or above and below if you sell out for it) and not have to worry about "through" and all of the extra edges (for deflections) that brings.

As for Skinner... as I said, I'm not a huge fan... but there isn't a lot here to criticize... like maybe, being extra critical, he could be another 6 inches higher in his crease and 3 inches left... but even then,
1) his position is going to be influenced by the screen and his efforts to see around it and his mis-timing of when to dig his edges and set his position. It looks to me like he might have set a bit too early, likely because he couldn't appropriately time it given not seeing the shot off the stick... as you rightly point out, that's key.
2) if he had come further out as I suggest, he increases the odds of #43 picking up any rebound since there would be more space around and behind him to tuck in the rebound. So even with retroscope, it's tough to judge that decision making from the photo...