Post-Game Talk: Oilers are good at shootouts now?

[Jimmi McJenkins]

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There are many things that are part of a goalie's job. They aren't all 100% within their control, 100% of the time.

Here is the moment you are criticizing. I can't find the puck or see the stick, can you? Can Skinner? Tough to say with the angle, but the result and his reaction after say no.

I'm basing this on the crazy notion that if he made it all the way to the NHL, he actually i) has sharp enough vision to see pucks, and ii) can stop a routine wrister from 30 feet out, unless maybe there are other variables at play... in this case... iii) he couldn't see it and only had an opportunity to pick it up after it emerges from Erne's screen.

Goalie perspective on that block?
i) It would have been better if he just GTFOOTW.
ii) The only part of Erne's body that has a remote chance of blocking is his left leg.
iii) Even his left leg has three edges I'd be concerned about deflecting the puck... shin, calf and hamstring can all deflect it past me
iv) His hips, body and arm are all too high to stop a shot from that distance... anything that would hit them would be going high.
v) His right leg is also a huge problem anything going toward #43 can also be deflected in by that leg
vi) There are only two windows for Skinner to look at to try and find the puck, under the armpit or through the legs

For all you beer leaguers out there, this is NOT the way to do it. No matter what, get your legs together please, then I can choose to look left or right and not have to worry about "through" and all of the extra edges (for deflections) that brings.

As for Skinner... as I said, I'm not a huge fan... but there isn't a lot here to criticize... like maybe, being extra critical, he could be another 6 inches higher in his crease and 3 inches left... but even then,
1) his position is going to be influenced by the screen and his efforts to see around it and his mis-timing of when to dig his edges and set his position. It looks to me like he might have set a bit too early, likely because he couldn't appropriately time it given not seeing the shot off the stick... as you rightly point out, that's key.
2) if he had come further out as I suggest, he would have been exposed to #43 picking up any rebound and would have too much space around and behind him to tuck in the rebound. So even with retroscope, it's tough to judge that decision making from the photo...

Solid post, I still think Skinner needed to have this one, but I think you make the point which I will parrot Erne has to SELL Out harder to block that shot.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'm as hard on Nurse as the next guy, but he has no doubt been playing well lately and is a major impact player when he is.

Fingers crossed that this is the first time in a few years that he builds stability and consistency to his game. He's 100% a player when his head is in it.

Nurse is the best he's been since Tippett or McLellan. Just like I said he would be after the team fired Woody and Manson.

This is not isolated to the player. ALL our D are being better and more valuable, and playing their positions more effectively since the coaching change. After awhile this will be hard to ignore. But specific to Nurse the uptick in play pretty much coincided with the coaching change.

This is a coaching staff now helping the D to be the best they can be. Results are showing.

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

I thought his game was coming around the last couple games. He’s making good puck touches and generating some looks.

That said, He’s still soft though on his checking duties, and he made a pretty big error on coverage on that Kolesar goal.

He was getting the gear particularly hard tonight from all the post-game podcasts...etc. He had a couple of rough moments but overall, his line was dominant tonight.

 

[snag]

Not always easy to get a read on the mental makeup of 17-19 year old kids, though I agree it’s an extremely important aspect and they should be doing all they can to improve how they scout and develop such a vital position.

I’m always reminded of the scene from moneyball where the scouts are sitting around discussing players and one of them pipes up something along the lines of he has had good tools but an ugly girlfriend to which someone asks why that would matter and the scout replies, ugly girlfriend, no confidence. I always thought that was funny.

Or you know....he loves her and doesn't give a f*** what anyone says because he IS confident.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Maybe do a better job playing with the lead and don’t let it get to overtime.

 

[bucks_oil]

Solid post, I still think Skinner needed to have this one, but I think you make the point which I will parrot Erne has to SELL Out harder to block that shot.

Look my take on that period is "what an F'n bummer'... the Oilers were playing solid. I understand why they wanted (@CupofOil ) to be rewarded... and they did deserve to be rewarded. But it's a team game and Skinner didn't do anything worthy of shaming... that was a hard luck goal, everyone trying to do the right thing, super minor errors and those minor errors end in the net.

Thankfully the hockey gods smiled on them in OT (where Skinner also made a huge save) and in the shootout.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Look my take on that period is "what an F'n bummer'... the Oilers were playing solid. I understand why they wanted (@CupofOil ) to be rewarded... and they did deserve to be rewarded. But it's a team game and Skinner didn't do anything worthy of shaming... that was a hard luck goal, everyone trying to do the right thing, super minor errors and those minor errors end in the net.

Thankfully the hockey gods smiled on them in OT (where Skinner also made a huge save) and in the shootout.

My point still stands, including the 3rd goal against, the knights should not have been in a position to get the 4th goal because they should have been killing a penalty at that time.

 

[frag2]

He’s played his way onto the team as the 4C for sure. He’d be better on the PP than McLoed who’s an utter waste of time there.

Like I said earlier in the year [and last year], Mcleod plays like he's afraid of his own shadow.

 

[Stoneman89]

Was at the game with my son, and very enjoyable, other than the meltdown in the last 6 minutes. I thought we dominated for the most part and controlled the game in all areas.

- refs were just brutal, giving iffy penalties to us early in the game, and then letting everything go in the 3rd as they did all they could to induce a tie game. I counted at least 3 stick holds or slashes of sticks that knocked them out of our guys hands. And one of those led to the sequence that brought the 3rd Vegas goal.
- as bad as the reffing was, Skinner was just okay. His overplaying angles continues to give him grief. Have never seen so many empty net tap ins against him. We're going to need him to play a whole lot better going forward, as the next game does not have him going up against a backup but a proven elite netminder in Hellebucyk, and more of those types. Fortunately in this one, Logan Thompson gave up a couple greasy ones too, despite a much higher volume of quality shots.
- big shoutout to Mattias Janmark. His play since coming back from his latest stint on the IR has been outstanding. His speed and defensive play is really noticeable, and he is a big reason our PK has really turned it around.

 

[Mav3rick07]

Kane's last 2 games = 2 goals - 1 Assist - 7 Shots- 17 hits

 

[Stoneman89]

Or you know....he loves her and doesn't give a f*** what anyone says because he IS confident.

The only thing that gives a man REAL confidence is by wearing women's slacks.

 

[K1984]

Kane's last 2 games = 2 goals - 1 Assist - 7 Shots- 17 hits

He's playing outstanding hockey at the moment.

As much as Hyman is probably a slightly better net front player than Kane, he doesn't have the ability to score from distance the same way. Kane can score in front, but he can also score from high slot or off the wall so it gives the PP a different look if he were to rotate out of the net front spot.

 

[snag]

The only thing that gives a man REAL confidence is by wearing women's slacks.

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Women's Wranglers. Nothing says confidence like sporting a mooseknuckle in high risers.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Maybe do a better job playing with the lead and don’t let it get to overtime.

That would be easier if the officials did their jobs instead of starting at obvious Vegas infractions and completely ignoring them in the name of game management.

 

[mcdingdong]

Maaaaan the Skinner comments in here are hilarious. So many people caught up in stats and not watching the actual plays.
Goal 1: Stone makes a huge effort despite being battled for space pretty hard and gets a fortunate tip that goes in off of Ekholm's ass.
Goal 2: abysmal coverage off of a faceoff (both wingers shoot, dmen are at goal line and boards on the faceoff so the wingers can't shoot in that situation). Turns into a 1v1 with time and space less than 10 feet out, lots of players will make a good play and often score in that situation.
Goal 3: probably the most stoppable but still a quick shot off of a broken play through a screen.
Goal 4: LOL. Screamer backdoor pass 2 feet off the ice that the guy gets a stick on. 1/100 play.

Look, we played well last night but, as has been the case most of the season thus far, we didn't get some bounces. Team is coming together, Skinner included. Let's be happy!

 

[Spawn]

He's playing outstanding hockey at the moment.

As much as Hyman is probably a slightly better net front player than Kane, he doesn't have the ability to score from distance the same way. Kane can score in front, but he can also score from high slot or off the wall so it gives the PP a different look if he were to rotate out of the net front spot.

Kane definitely has a different skill set than Hyman. Hyman is more of a Ryan Smyth type and Kane more a Bill Guerin. When they’re both going it’s really good for the team. They have unique skill sets on the team.

 

[mkatcherin00]

I thought his game was coming around the last couple games. He’s making good puck touches and generating some looks.

That said, He’s still soft though on his checking duties, and he made a pretty big error on coverage on that Kolesar goal.

He has been looking better and is getting more engaged, but he avoids contact too much.

I remember one play in particular where he and a Vegas player were racing to the corner for a puck from the blueline in the 3rd.

McLoed STOPS SHORT and pokes at it while the Vegas player takes it lol. It is very hard to play a possession game when guys do this.

 

[oXo Cube]

Maaaaan the Skinner comments in here are hilarious. So many people caught up in stats and not watching the actual plays.
Goal 1: Stone makes a huge effort despite being battled for space pretty hard and gets a fortunate tip that goes in off of Ekholm's ass.
Goal 2: abysmal coverage off of a faceoff (both wingers shoot, dmen are at goal line and boards on the faceoff so the wingers can't shoot in that situation). Turns into a 1v1 with time and space less than 10 feet out, lots of players will make a good play and often score in that situation.
Goal 3: probably the most stoppable but still a quick shot off of a broken play through a screen.
Goal 4: LOL. Screamer backdoor pass 2 feet off the ice that the guy gets a stick on. 1/100 play.

Look, we played well last night but, as has been the case most of the season thus far, we didn't get some bounces. Team is coming together, Skinner included. Let's be happy!

Goals 2 and 3 were both stoppable. If he gets even one of those this game is never close.

A goalie only making the saves he's always supposed to make and never anything else is the lowest of low bars. We can and should expect better from someone who is supposed to be top 64 in the world at his position.

 

[Juxta Position]

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There are many things that are part of a goalie's job. They aren't all 100% within their control, 100% of the time.

Here is the moment you are criticizing. I can't find the puck or see the stick, can you? Can Skinner? Tough to say with the angle, but the result and his reaction after say no.

I'm basing this on the crazy notion that if he made it all the way to the NHL, he actually i) has sharp enough vision to see pucks, and ii) can stop a routine wrister from 30 feet out, unless maybe there are other variables at play... in this case... iii) he couldn't see it and only had an opportunity to pick it up after it emerges from Erne's screen.

Goalie perspective on that block?
i) It would have been better if he just GTFOOTW.
ii) The only part of Erne's body that has a remote chance of blocking is his left leg.
iii) Even his left leg has three edges I'd be concerned about deflecting the puck... shin, calf and hamstring can all deflect it past me
iv) His hips, body and arm are all too high to stop a shot from that distance... anything that would hit them would be going high.
v) His right leg is also a huge problem anything going toward #43 can also be deflected in by that leg
vi) There are only two windows for Skinner to look at to try and find the puck, under the armpit or through the legs

For all you beer leaguers out there, this is NOT the way to do it. You don't have to go down, not asking or expecting that, but please, no matter what, get your legs together please, then I can choose to look left or right (or above and below if you sell out for it) and not have to worry about "through" and all of the extra edges (for deflections) that brings.

As for Skinner... as I said, I'm not a huge fan... but there isn't a lot here to criticize... like maybe, being extra critical, he could be another 6 inches higher in his crease and 3 inches left... but even then,
1) his position is going to be influenced by the screen and his efforts to see around it and his mis-timing of when to dig his edges and set his position. It looks to me like he might have set a bit too early, likely because he couldn't appropriately time it given not seeing the shot off the stick... as you rightly point out, that's key.
2) if he had come further out as I suggest, he increases the odds of #43 picking up any rebound since there would be more space around and behind him to tuck in the rebound. So even with retroscope, it's tough to judge that decision making from the photo...

I would argue Skinner doesn't stop that puck regardless of whether Erne was there or not. You state there isn't a lot to criticize there and mention if you had to pick something it would be that he could be out around 6 inches and over to his left about 3 inches, but that is actually a lot to criticize.

If Skinner is in the position you stated above, that puck does not go in and he makes that save. It may seem like a small adjustment, but at the NHL level those small adjustments are what separate the good from the bad. His positioning and angles are off, whether by 3 inches or 30, he's still not where he needs to be to give himself the best chance at making that save, and NHL shooters are too good for a goalie to get by by just being in the general area.

Diameter of an NHL puck is 3 inches, if he's over to the left 3 inches and playing that angle properly, that puck doesn't get past him.

 

[mcdingdong]

Goals 2 and 3 were both stoppable. If he gets even one of those this game is never close.

A goalie only making the saves he's always supposed to make and never anything else is the lowest of low bars. We can and should expect better from someone who is supposed to be top 64 in the world at his position.

Haha, I mean you can expect a save when you leave a guy alone in front with loads of time but you're gonna be disappointed a helluva lot. If the player executes (as he did last night) it's about as stoppable as goal 4.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Kane is nuking my fantasy league with all his hits and goals. Playing unreal.

 

[Oilslick941611]

He's playing outstanding hockey at the moment.

As much as Hyman is probably a slightly better net front player than Kane, he doesn't have the ability to score from distance the same way. Kane can score in front, but he can also score from high slot or off the wall so it gives the PP a different look if he were to rotate out of the net front spot.

Kane has been nothing short of an excellent Oiler. Hyman too.

 

[MoneyGuy]

A shout out to our shoot-out proficiency.

 

[Spawn]

Maaaaan the Skinner comments in here are hilarious. So many people caught up in stats and not watching the actual plays.
Goal 1: Stone makes a huge effort despite being battled for space pretty hard and gets a fortunate tip that goes in off of Ekholm's ass.
Goal 2: abysmal coverage off of a faceoff (both wingers shoot, dmen are at goal line and boards on the faceoff so the wingers can't shoot in that situation). Turns into a 1v1 with time and space less than 10 feet out, lots of players will make a good play and often score in that situation.
Goal 3: probably the most stoppable but still a quick shot off of a broken play through a screen.
Goal 4: LOL. Screamer backdoor pass 2 feet off the ice that the guy gets a stick on. 1/100 play.

Look, we played well last night but, as has been the case most of the season thus far, we didn't get some bounces. Team is coming together, Skinner included. Let's be happy!

The issue isn’t just this one game with our goaltending. It’s emblematic of why this team is going to be extremely hard pressed to win a cup.

Your goalie needs to be able to make a difficult save. Some Oiler fans seem to think that a goalie’s only job is to stop the routine shots against and they are absolved anytime any sort of breakdown (however minor) happens. The Oilers don’t even really need a goalie to save a game. They just need a goalie who can save a moment. That second goal while up 2-1 with a defensive breakdown off a faceoff? That was a moment we needed a save. Up 4-2 late in the third where you haven’t given Vegas a sniff? That was a moment we needed a save. Not even a difficult save mind you. That 3rd goal should never go in.

Skinner isn’t that guy and games like last night that are all too common continue to reinforce that. Maybe one day he’ll get there, he’s still a young goalie. But he’s not there now.

 

[bucks_oil]

I would argue Skinner doesn't stop that puck regardless of whether Erne was there or not. You state there isn't a lot to criticize there and mention if you had to pick something it would be that he could be out around 6 inches and over to his left about 3 inches, but that is actually a lot to criticize.

If Skinner is in the position you stated above, that puck does not go in and he makes that save. It may seem like a small adjustment, but at the NHL level those small adjustments are what separate the good from the bad. His positioning and angles are off, whether by 3 inches or 30, he's still not where he needs to be to give himself the best chance at making that save, and NHL shooters are too good for a goalie to get by by just being in the general area.

Diameter of an NHL puck is 3 inches, if he's over to the left 3 inches and playing that angle properly, that puck doesn't get past him.

I understand angles and how big a puck is.

But we can't see where the puck is released from because we can't see the puck. He looks a little to the right, but if the puck was release from a little more toward where the forward is diving for it, he was in good position.

If it was released from behind Erne's torso (ie I caught the perfect moment) then you are right he's off.

But if Erne's not there, there's no way he misses it whether out of position or not, it barely missed him and he didn't move for it at all. Any NHL goalie would stop that wrister from that difference. Erne had everything to do with it.

Also... 6 inches further out is a bit of a judgement call based on Skinner's size and lateral movement... he's not super fast post to post and he is super big, so for me... I'd be further out, but that's me, not Skinner. He's gotta make his own call there, he wasn't WILDLY out of position within reason.