damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,668
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Honestly this is the best quote out of the whole side show.
I agree 100% too.
All this lawyer litigate speak, nonsense garbage.
Lombardi/Sutter....Make better roster decisions.
GDT: Offseason game thread
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Honestly this is the best quote out of the whole side show.
I agree 100% too.
All this lawyer litigate speak, nonsense garbage.
Lombardi/Sutter....Make better roster decisions.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Amen.
Why do people keep saying this?
I know the popular sentiment is to question everything right now and I get it. But that's just factually wrong.
From 2011, sure, the jury is out, and Chris Gibson was a bust. But we've got, to varying degrees, NHL players out of it--everyone was on Andreoff's jock at the end of the year, Shore, and possibly Mersch and Lowry in rounds 3-5.
From 2012, we got a little guy called Tanner Pearson. No 2nd or 3rd, then Porkins in the 4th looks to be a bust pick, Colin Miller was SOMETHING because he became a moved asset for Lucic, and LaDue (jury still out) and Ebert with the last pick of the draft.
From 2013, Zykov became Versteeg, Fasching became McNabb, Auger is developing well even if unlikely to become much, Brodzinski looks like a player, and Leslie is still marinating.
If you're talking about full on impact players sure, one needs yet to emerge beyond Pearson, but considering how many of those guys were college players, how some were moved for other players, and how little roster opportunity there has been regardless (remember, you're talking about during our cup window), I can't agree that's a fair evaluation of our drafting (that we "got nothing out of those drafts").
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,668
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No significant help has come directly out of those drafts(save Pearson). That hurts, and it's showing.
The jury is out on some (Brodz ETC.) Lucic for Miller I am not sure was the correct move, I understand it, but moving the puck was a problem and Defense depth. Also Miller would have been cost controlled. It is what it is though.
Shore not progressing in the NHL has been disappointing, cause even I thought he was going to make a bigger impact sooner. Maybe next season some these fringe guys can make a leap, so far it's not happened.
The Kings need another King/Nolan, Pearson/Toffoli, A-Mart/Muzzin infusion to happen. Hope it's next season.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
And he can't really say that either. Something he did say in the conference call, was that even if you can't do anything, you still have to fill out a roster as best you can. Internally, you can be more honest. Externally, you're not going to say we can't do anything, at least half of Brown's contract is being wasted, we don't have enough in the AHL, etc.
Everyone, inside hockey, and just the fans, knows Lombardi isn't working from a position of strength. Everyone can see Brown's production in relation to his cap hit. Everyone knows Gaborik will be 35 next year, and has a history with various injuries. Everyone knows Voynov opened up a significant hole on defense. He knows it too, he just can't say it publicly and specifically, even if it's just for show.
2011:
We don't know about Mersch yet. Andreoff is probably what he is going to be, but he's not going to be expensive, and his 10 goals in the last 2 years are more than Clifford's 9. It would help a ton if Shore became more effective.
2012:
Pearson is a key player, and we'll see about LaDue.
2013:
Bartosak could've been a cheap backup with upside. Auger, Brodzinski, who knows. If McNabb gets better, it'll make the trade ok. If he doesn't, and Fasching becomes a player, then it won't have turned out to be a good trade.
Going by the concept of a successful draft means getting at least 2 guys that can do something for you, those drafts still have a chance. So does 2010, as long Forbort and Gravel work out. It needs to start happening though, since the Kings are capped out for the most part.
All Lombardi has to do to restock the cupboards is to trade Muzzin & Martinez. Sign some UFA's like Schenn to replace them in the short term while the Kings wait for their replacements to develop. Time is on our side. Yes it is. 
BigKing
Blake Out of Hell III: Back in to Hell
Hammond is a tool and has always been a tool. No **** make better roster decisions but that sounds like some fly-by HF Poster and not a "journalist". Hammond always going to carry a grudge over the O'Sullivan trade. Go cover a USC basketball game or something.
As for DL's comments, there is a lot of lawyer speak since it is Lombardi; however, I wouldn't go so far as to imply he said nothing:
--Made it clear numerous times that scouting has been a major issue over the past bit here. Of course, harder to draft well without 1st round picks, but the major impact within two years from a 2nd round pick train has ended. Falls in line with the comments about success going to their heads as they had apparently figured everything out. Well...sometimes you get Simmonds/Clifford/Toffoli in the 2nd and sometimes you get Gibson/Zykov/McKeown while trading assets to get the latter and then trading them for assets that are no longer here anyways. Then you take maybe the best pick they've made in the last few years in Fasching and trade him for McNabb. If Voynov doesn't happen, maybe this trade is okay but it looks painful now. Drafting has not been as strong as before.
--I don't believe there is going to be some large paradigm shift in Lombardi's thinking on how to build a team: he just isn't giving this team the benefit of the doubt anymore. My diatribe at the end of 2015 was that this team got full of itself after winning 2 Cups but especially for how it won in '14. The '12 team still had something to prove but '14 made them league royalty. This obviously wasn't confined to the players as Lombardi pretty much said as much yesterday. This plays in to DL's "loyalty" problem since '14 and his willingness to trade 1st round picks for immediate help. "All this team has to do is make the playoffs". Well, they didn't do it in '15 so we just went through one more season of DL believing these guys could do it due to the "built-in excuses" of 2015. Well, he now looks back in hindsight at that Sekera trade (Fasching as well probably) and realizes they weren't close to where they needed to be and is going to go back to "building", i.e. not mortgaging the future for quick-fixes. This team hasn't failed in the playoffs since winning in '12 and management bought in to the "Built for the playoffs" meme, leading to a harsh reality lesson a few weeks ago.
--In regards to Sutter, I think the issue is going to be a bit more of a youth movement and maybe some Sutter favorites are going to be shown the door. The 2012-'14 Kings are done. Everyone realizes that now but does Sutter want to deal with "starting over" in a sense? I mean, the guy stepped in to a talented roster that Lombardi instantly made better and they had a hell of a run. Sutter said it many times this year that it is a different team, hell, think he said it five times a week. He left the farm and won two championships. His two assistants are both ready to be head coaches again as well. Felt all along that the Sutter decision would be based on how this team fared and it would be totally up to him as Lombardi loves Sutter. I do not expect him to come back unless, seriously, the Chris Sutter/family situation down here is too good for him to leave.
In the end, Lombardi's hubris has the team in its current state. Took a bad playoff loss to kill the illusion of the "never out of it" Kings for him and he realizes that he has a lot of work ahead and that, yes, he has to make better roster decisions. I think he implied as much in his comments but this is DL: you aren't going to get a short answer of "I need to make better roster decisions". The guy is always in his own head which should not be a new thing to Hammond, just like Hammond's sour grapes are not a new thing to any of us here on HF.
As for DL's comments, there is a lot of lawyer speak since it is Lombardi; however, I wouldn't go so far as to imply he said nothing:
--Made it clear numerous times that scouting has been a major issue over the past bit here. Of course, harder to draft well without 1st round picks, but the major impact within two years from a 2nd round pick train has ended. Falls in line with the comments about success going to their heads as they had apparently figured everything out. Well...sometimes you get Simmonds/Clifford/Toffoli in the 2nd and sometimes you get Gibson/Zykov/McKeown while trading assets to get the latter and then trading them for assets that are no longer here anyways. Then you take maybe the best pick they've made in the last few years in Fasching and trade him for McNabb. If Voynov doesn't happen, maybe this trade is okay but it looks painful now. Drafting has not been as strong as before.
--I don't believe there is going to be some large paradigm shift in Lombardi's thinking on how to build a team: he just isn't giving this team the benefit of the doubt anymore. My diatribe at the end of 2015 was that this team got full of itself after winning 2 Cups but especially for how it won in '14. The '12 team still had something to prove but '14 made them league royalty. This obviously wasn't confined to the players as Lombardi pretty much said as much yesterday. This plays in to DL's "loyalty" problem since '14 and his willingness to trade 1st round picks for immediate help. "All this team has to do is make the playoffs". Well, they didn't do it in '15 so we just went through one more season of DL believing these guys could do it due to the "built-in excuses" of 2015. Well, he now looks back in hindsight at that Sekera trade (Fasching as well probably) and realizes they weren't close to where they needed to be and is going to go back to "building", i.e. not mortgaging the future for quick-fixes. This team hasn't failed in the playoffs since winning in '12 and management bought in to the "Built for the playoffs" meme, leading to a harsh reality lesson a few weeks ago.
--In regards to Sutter, I think the issue is going to be a bit more of a youth movement and maybe some Sutter favorites are going to be shown the door. The 2012-'14 Kings are done. Everyone realizes that now but does Sutter want to deal with "starting over" in a sense? I mean, the guy stepped in to a talented roster that Lombardi instantly made better and they had a hell of a run. Sutter said it many times this year that it is a different team, hell, think he said it five times a week. He left the farm and won two championships. His two assistants are both ready to be head coaches again as well. Felt all along that the Sutter decision would be based on how this team fared and it would be totally up to him as Lombardi loves Sutter. I do not expect him to come back unless, seriously, the Chris Sutter/family situation down here is too good for him to leave.
In the end, Lombardi's hubris has the team in its current state. Took a bad playoff loss to kill the illusion of the "never out of it" Kings for him and he realizes that he has a lot of work ahead and that, yes, he has to make better roster decisions. I think he implied as much in his comments but this is DL: you aren't going to get a short answer of "I need to make better roster decisions". The guy is always in his own head which should not be a new thing to Hammond, just like Hammond's sour grapes are not a new thing to any of us here on HF.
AlphaBravo
Registered User
Yes he did. He said "everyone" including coaches need to change things. What can a coach change other than systems?
Peter James Bond II
"Man, we were right there" - De-Luc-sional
- Mar 5, 2015
- 3,682
- 5,520
Worse than giving up Jones and Miller, was not having that #13 overall pick to draft Kyle Connor. I was reading in pre-draft guides that the Kings were going to pick him, if there. He scored 35 goals and 36 assists for 71 points in 38 games at U of Mich, leading them. That's possibly the most Freshman pts in college since Kariya scored 100 or whatever it was....Lucic for Jones, Connor and Miller is a travesty. Bet Lose-apeg can sign him after 1 more year and he will
be a force. They also will be drafting Laine as well. Great future for the Jets.
The Kings indeed need another Toffoli / Pearson soon. It's a bummer to see Shore score a ton in the AHL his last season there, and cannot
make any offensive contribution. Disheartening to see Zykov come to nothing. The Kings had a good history of later than rd 4 picks emerging as effective / impact players, not not recently. Hopefully 3rd rounder Amadio becomes an impact player. I still expect Kempe to become a good pro. Should be a legit top 6 player. Already NHL speed, size, skill and shot and just 19.
Players minutes... like Doughty not playing half the game. Maybe playing some of the youth like Gravel instead of Scuderi? Playing the back up 20-30 games. (No one's saying the T-word, but not over playing Quick/Doughty would really help next years draft position.
)
cyclones22
Registered User
Players minutes... like Doughty not playing half the game. Maybe playing some of the youth like Gravel instead of Scuderi? Playing the back up 20-30 games. (No one's saying the T-word, but not over playing Quick/Doughty would really help next years draft position.
And not just the minutes, it's the actual deployment. There were many head scratching moments when I was baffled why a particular line or defensive pairing was out on the ice. The Jewels From The Crown article does a good job of analyzing this in detail.
Kingsfan1
Registered User
True, however those 5 teams total who can say they have speed and skill in the bottom 6 are the ones left in the playoffs. However, i dont think many can disagree that the game has evolved and if we dont adapt then we will stay behind. If we stick to the heavy style and with slow key players then we will not have much success.
kingsfan28
Its A Kingspiracy !
Rich has turned into such a tool since he was replaced. He's been taking not so vailed jabs at the Kings for years and has now replaced Helen-Helan-Helene from the LA Times as the local snarky reporter covering the Kings.
kingskring
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2012
- 3,621
- 1,909
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC 16m16 minutes ago
Via text, Darryl Sutter agreed with Dean Lombardi that he is "still undecided" about coaching LA. Sutter said he is watching to see…
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
what the Kings will look like through free agency, the cap and its prospects. Said his family has enjoyed it in LA and "that has weight”…
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
but wants to win another Cup and that is also "a big factor." That is it for now.
Via text, Darryl Sutter agreed with Dean Lombardi that he is "still undecided" about coaching LA. Sutter said he is watching to see…
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
what the Kings will look like through free agency, the cap and its prospects. Said his family has enjoyed it in LA and "that has weight”…
Elliotte Friedman @FriedgeHNIC 14m14 minutes ago
but wants to win another Cup and that is also "a big factor." That is it for now.
cyclones22
Registered User
Plus, it's much harder to make personnel decisions when you're trying to maintain greatness than when you haven't reached that level and can take more risks with not as much to lose.
ScoreZeGoals
Boooorrrrriiiinnnnng
- Jun 29, 2010
- 17,668
- 7,698
Translation. Sutter wants another cup, he doesn't want to go through a 2-3 year rebuild.
Also looks like there are a couple of options the Kings are looking at and it depends on what Lombardi is able to pull off. This is the big part.
Option 1: free up enough cap space you're able to fill out the D and make another run. (Brown)
Option 2: retool.
So Sutter signing relies on Brown being moved. That's pretty harsh.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Vibes with what Sutter was previously saying about 'this is a different team,' didnt seem thrilled.
But still, yow.
But still, yow.
Quattro
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2005
- 4,909
- 56
name another team Sutter could go to with a better chance at a Cup than the Kings.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I imagine he'd probably retire and head back to Alberta at some point. If the team isn't all in to win it next year, what's the point of hanging around for the next year/2?
AlphaBravo
Registered User
Wow that is huge news. This is going to be one interesting summer. If Sutter doesn't come back Stevens will most likely be the coach. Or if we are going to play the kids we should promote Sutters.
Question. The DS contract that is expiring, how many seasons was that for? Has he had a new contract since winning the cup? Maybe he wants to see if he can cash in a bit and some other team will pay him well. I wouldn't blame him.
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