GDT: Offseason game thread

[DryIslandBartender]

I get the feeling that Brown and Gaborik are on their way out and maybe someone else that has value. I like that he put the scouts on notice to shape up, that tells me that we're looking to retool or replenish the pipeline and get a couple bridge players until those guys are ready.

We have a tremendous core and won't ever go back to the Cloutier era under Dean. I do think, however, we're looking at a mini-rebuild. An aging roster that couldn't get past the first round is not a good future.

Dean needs to add more skilled players and get younger.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Maybe I'm just blinded because I've always liked him as a player, but I don't think Gaborik is on too much of a hot seat. He had one down year (before which he was essentially a 30 goal scorer), whereas Brown has had several.

Gaborik is a known quantity that will bring the same attributes night in and night out. Toffoli is the same way. These skill guys are valued at manageable cap hits because their skill isn't going to disappear overnight, unlike the physical work ethic guys. Yes, they're streaky, but I think that's to be expected.

And I feel like Gaborik's cap hit is manageable considering what is expected of him, and what he's still clearly capable of producing.

Maybe I'm wrong, though. Always liked him as a player.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

At this point I think the other thing that management has to evaluate with respect to Sutter and the system is that there is literally no reason we should look so slow and tired. That's two years in a row we've just totally crapped out at the end. I mentioned earlier that could be on Sutter, or on the conditioning team, or something else entirely, but one has to wonder.

Yes, we're the heaviest team in the league, but even if I'm being extra-critical, the only "slow" guys on the roster are King, Toffoli, Looch...then the obvious suspects on D. EVERYONE looking slow and tired is bad, considering most of our guys are above average speed, some are flat out great (pearson, carter, gaborik even has elite bursts once a game till he burns his nitrous, lewis just off my head).

 

[Kingsfan1]

I dont see Gaborik leaving. When he came back for the playoffs you can still see the high end skill and speed in his game. He is a true game breaking player with sniping capabilitjes. And after the comments Dean made about him being our version of Selanne and playing til his 40s at a high speed i dont see him getting dealt nor do i want to see him get dealt.

Yes he scored 27 goals just 1 season ago in 62 games. He had a down year last year thats it . Next year he will bounce back. This is his normal routine but his speed and skill still causes trouble for the opponent.

King, Brown, Lewis, Clifford these are the kinds of players thay shouldnt be on the team. For several different reasons, caphit , bender, plug, no skill, stone hands , only heavy game nothing more no skill. Easily replaceable with some speed and skill like other teams bottom 6.

Judging by Deans comments and also whats needed is some youth movement and some speed and skill. Get away from the grinding game. I really hope we see Mersch, Dowd and Gravel next year up with the big club.

 

[BigBrown]

Honestly I think people are reading into his comments what they want to read into them. They're looking to change a lot of things I'm sure but I seriously doubt they're looking to transform themselves into a skill team. Feel free to disagree.

 

[Omni Owl]

I dont see Gaborik leaving. When he came back for the playoffs you can still see the high end skill and speed in his game. He is a true game breaking player with sniping capabilitjes. And after the comments Dean made about him being our version of Selanne and playing til his 40s at a high speed i dont see him getting dealt nor do i want to see him get dealt.

Yes he scored 27 goals just 1 season ago in 62 games. He had a down year last year thats it . Next year he will bounce back. This is his normal routine but his speed and skill still causes trouble for the opponent.

King, Brown, Lewis, Clifford these are the kinds of players thay shouldnt be on the team. For several different reasons, caphit , bender, plug, no skill, stone hands , only heavy game nothing more no skill. Easily replaceable with some speed and skill like other teams bottom 6.

Judging by Deans comments and also whats needed is some youth movement and some speed and skill. Get away from the grinding game. I really hope we see Mersch, Dowd and Gravel next year up with the big club.

Add Kempe to that list, I think he's impressing the brass with his playoff performance.

 

[damacles1156]

Dean said a whole lot of noting in that conference call.

We have to get better....(duh) We have to draft better (Duh) We have to develop these guys better (duh). We can't rely on past success (DUH)..

I mean the only useful information out of all that whole conversation was, Sutter has a contract in front of him, and it's up to Sutter if he wants to take it.

That's about it.

 

[damacles1156]

Honestly I think people are reading into his comments what they want to read into them. They're looking to change a lot of things I'm sure but I seriously doubt they're looking to transform themselves into a skill team. Feel free to disagree.

He basically said nothing, I agree. Sutters contract status was the only thing worth reading/listening about.

 

[Omni Owl]

Indeed there was a lotta lawyer speak, AKA filler. Sutter may very well spend some time up at the farm and contemplate whether he wants to return. One thing that has encouraged me lately is the run the Pens are currently on, who last won a Cup in 09' and seemingly were done after that. Gives me some hope that the Kings can do the same thing down the road as long as Dean makes the necessary adjustments.

 

[damacles1156]

I dont see Gaborik leaving. When he came back for the playoffs you can still see the high end skill and speed in his game. He is a true game breaking player with sniping capabilitjes. And after the comments Dean made about him being our version of Selanne and playing til his 40s at a high speed i dont see him getting dealt nor do i want to see him get dealt.

Yes he scored 27 goals just 1 season ago in 62 games. He had a down year last year thats it . Next year he will bounce back. This is his normal routine but his speed and skill still causes trouble for the opponent.

King, Brown, Lewis, Clifford these are the kinds of players thay shouldnt be on the team. For several different reasons, caphit , bender, plug, no skill, stone hands , only heavy game nothing more no skill. Easily replaceable with some speed and skill like other teams bottom 6.

Judging by Deans comments and also whats needed is some youth movement and some speed and skill. Get away from the grinding game. I really hope we see Mersch, Dowd and Gravel next year up with the big club.

Everyone wants skill and speed in their bottom six, and about Five teams total in the NHL have it adequately. I wouldn't Consider the Sharks/NSH/Blues/Dallas having a good bottom six. They are average at best. The NYI probably have the best Bottom six left.

 

[damacles1156]

Indeed there was a lotta lawyer speak, AKA filler. Sutter may very well spend some time up at the farm and contemplate whether he wants to return. One thing that has encouraged me lately is the run the Pens are currently on, who last won a Cup in 09' and seemingly were done after that. Gives me some hope that the Kings can do the same thing down the road as long as Dean makes the necessary adjustments.

Crosby has fixed whatever the hell was wrong with him, that has a lot too do with the Pens getting back on track. Crosby is back to driving the Pens bus, and low and behold they are wining games.

 

[Little Psycho]

I remember reading an article where they asked some Gm's what was LA's downfall in the playoffs and they said not enough depth on D and our team is too slow for today's game.

 

[damacles1156]

I remember reading an article where they asked some Gm's what was LA's downfall in the playoffs and they said not enough depth on D and our team is too slow for today's game.

The NHL said the Kings were too slow in 2012. The puck moves faster than players.

What killed the Kings this year ? Depth on Defense, and Kopitar/Carter/Toffoli/Quick/Doughty getting outplayed, Are any of those guys slow ?

The Blues are not exactly a fast team, and would probably have a couple Cups by now if not for the Kings/Hawks.

The Best players in the playoffs right now (Crosby/Pavs/Thornton) are not exactly (Fast) guys.

Team speed is an illusion, because the best teams are not loaded with speed guys....They are loaded with people that can move the puck quickly and effectively.

 

[damacles1156]

What finnally caught up to the Kings Defense was losing Mitchell/RR/(Prime Scuds)Slava, and not replacing them. Muzzin is really the only legit number 2/3 to come up in since Doughty/Slava.

That has finally taken it's toll. I like A-Mart, but he is more of a 4/5/6.

When the defense can't move the puck quickly,effectively, the forwards have to come back too far, too deep. It makes your team (Look) slow all around.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Well I don't know what Lombardi is actually supposed to say. He can't detail what he wants to do, and how he plans to do it. That's the problem with all these interviews though. Players and coaches aren't going to say what gets said in the locker room, or how they're going to do this or that during a game. GM's can't show their hand. It's work hard, be better, etc, etc. Anything that sounds good in general. Nobody wants to air the family laundry.

 

[damacles1156]

Also would like to point out that the Kings, despite all his flaws, missed Matt Greene.

That is because they did not replace what Greene does well. Along the walls, in front of the net, and the PK, Greene is good in those areas.

The Kings tried with Schenn, but Schenn is not good in those areas.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The NHL said the Kings where too slow in 2012. The puck moves faster than players.

What killed the Kings this year ? Depth on Defense, and Kopitar/Carter/Toffoli/Quick/Doughty getting outplayed, Are any of those guys slow ?

The Blues are not exactly a fast team, and would probably have a couple Cups by now if not for the Kings/Hawks.

The Best players in the playoffs right now (Crosby/Pavs/Thornton) are not exactly (Fast) guys.

Team speed is an illusion, because the best teams are not loaded with speed guys....They are loaded with people that can move the puck quickly and effectively.

And that's exactly what the Kings lacked the past two seasons; their puck management has been awful, despite how misleading the advanced metrics show them as being a superior possession team. Those numbers don't show how ineffective this team is when they have the puck.

I can count on one hand how many guys on this team are capable of making smart decisions with the puck. The rest of the team is made up of grinders or anchors on defense who are poor or slow skaters and are barely capable of completing passes (like Dustin Brown and his numerous turnovers as soon as he crosses the blueline).

This team as it is needs A LOT of work, and that is Dean's responsibility. Sutter can only use what's in front I him, and the past two seasons there isn't a whole lot of great options when you look at the overall depth of this team.

Aside from just losing Mitchell, Voynov, Regehr, Greene, Stoll, Richards, Williams and Jones they've had to bring in a number of new players who either didn't mesh well or were simply incapable of filling the gaps that the team was looking to replace. That's a misstep from Dean, not Sutter.

How Dean addresses these issues is the million dollar question and one that he probably can't give you a straight answer on. I don't expect a rebuild but they definitely need a retooling and may have to bring up a number of new faces from Ontario next season, and I prefer it be that way over bringing in other turds like Luke Schenn.

 

[damacles1156]

And that's exactly what the Kings lacked the past two seasons; their puck management has been awful, despite how misleading the advanced metrics show them as being a superior possession team. Those numbers don't show how ineffective this team is when they have the puck.

I can count on one hand how many guys on this team are capable of making smart decisions with the puck. The rest of the team is made up of grinders or anchors on defense who are poor or slow skaters and are barely capable of completing passes (like Dustin Brown and his numerous turnovers as soon as he crosses the blueline).

This team as it is needs A LOT of work, and that is Dean's responsibility. Sutter can only use what's in front I him, and the past two seasons there isn't a whole lot of great options when you look at the overall depth of this team.

Aside from just losing Mitchell, Voynov, Regehr, Greene, Stoll, Richards, Williams and Jones they've had to bring in a number of new players who either didn't mesh well or were simply incapable of filling the gaps that the team was looking to replace. That's a misstep from Dean, not Sutter.

How Dean addresses these issues is the million dollar question and one that he probably can't give you a straight answer on. I don't expect a rebuild but they definitely need a retooling and may have to bring up a number of new faces from Ontario next season, and I prefer it be that way over bringing in other turds like Luke Schenn.

I agree that Dean has not brought in adequate replacements. Also the drafts from 2011-2013 are looking not good, as far as NHL prospects go, providing the depth the Kings need to stay competitive.

That is a failure on Futa and his staff, they are not absolved from fault. Trading the 1/2nd round picks have caught up to the Kings. That is the price for Two Stanley Cups.

 

[AlphaBravo]

He basically said nothing, I agree. Sutters contract status was the only thing worth reading/listening about.

Dean said plenty in that interview. The very clear take aways are: 1) Sutter is contemplating whether to coach again but it's likely he will be back; 2) the Lucic negotiations are not as close as we thought it was per Lucic's comments during that one interview; 3) the Kings are going to change their system (the extent of which is unknown); 4) there won't be a full rebuild this year (based on comment that we are not going back to 2007); and 5) the team is looking to develop a new identity.

The biggest thing for me is that DL made clear that they are moving on from the past cup wins. Hopefully this means no quick fixes to try to make the team a contender. I am fine with missing the playoffs next year if it means developing the kids and getting good assets this offseason.

 

[Trolfoli]

Honestly I think people are reading into his comments what they want to read into them. They're looking to change a lot of things I'm sure but I seriously doubt they're looking to transform themselves into a skill team. Feel free to disagree.

This is what worries me. The team probably needs to do more then wait for the cap to go up, wait to see if someone takes Brown, and wait to see how much of an impact guys currently on the farm will make. Which way is Lombardi heading?

Dean said a whole lot of noting in that conference call.

We have to get better....(duh) We have to draft better (Duh) We have to develop these guys better (duh). We can't rely on past success (DUH)..

I mean the only useful information out of all that whole conversation was, Sutter has a contract in front of him, and it's up to Sutter if he wants to take it.

That's about it.

He said a whole lot in that statement. He's over the depression of watching his championship team implode. He's now working on a new vision. He's getting an emotional boost from building something new. He's back to being the Lombardi that can create a championship team and not some guy running all over the place with Duct Tape.

 

[damacles1156]

Dean said plenty in that interview. The very clear take aways are: 1) Sutter is contemplating whether to coach again but it's likely he will be back; 2) the Lucic negotiations are not as close as we thought it was per Lucic's comments during that one interview; 3) the Kings are going to change their system (the extent of which is unknown); 4) there won't be a full rebuild this year (based on comment that we are not going back to 2007); and 5) the team is looking to develop a new identity.

The biggest thing for me is that DL made clear that they are moving on from the past cup wins. Hopefully this means no quick fixes to try to make the team a contender. I am fine with missing the playoffs next year if it means developing the kids and getting good assets this offseason.

He made no mention of the (system) other than we are going to get back on track.

No rebuild, because they can't at this point,.... You guys are pulling fanatasy out of some lawyer lip speak.

He said nothing.

 

[damacles1156]

Well I don't know what Lombardi is actually supposed to say. He can't detail what he wants to do, and how he plans to do it. That's the problem with all these interviews though. Players and coaches aren't going to say what gets said in the locker room, or how they're going to do this or that during a game. GM's can't show their hand. It's work hard, be better, etc, etc. Anything that sounds good in general. Nobody wants to air the family laundry.

Honestly without the Cap going up a lot, or ownership being ok with Lombardi buying out at least two bad contracts...Trading good assest like Toffoli/Carter/A-Mart/Muzzin/Kempe/Pearson

He can't do much.

Say it again as well.

What's really hurt is the 2011,2012,2013 drafts, the Kings basically got nothing out of those drafts, you can't do that, and expect to remain competitive.

 

[Trolfoli]

And that's exactly what the Kings lacked the past two seasons; their puck management has been awful, despite how misleading the advanced metrics show them as being a superior possession team. Those numbers don't show how ineffective this team is when they have the puck.

Wait... did you just question the Kings Corsi? I didn't think that was allowed around here.

Seriously though, one of the Kings biggest problems is guys like Brown/Lewis crossing the offensive blue line with the puck. Their team mates expect them to make a play so they aren't in defensive positions and then the puck is turned over and Kings will give up a good chance against.

One thing I really want to see happen next year with all the speed and the smaller D that are all over this league is Lucic/King/Mersch/Nolan. All those boys are 220-230. That's a lot of meat for smaller D to deal with in the corners. We got to see it for a couple of games last year and other teams were having a hard time dealing with it.

 

[damacles1156]

The system, depth ETC.

None of that matters if Kopitar/Carter/Toffoli/Quick/Doughty are going to get outplayed by their counterparts.

That was the most disappointing thing this playoff's. Doughty had a pretty awful series right up their with 2013 Hawks series.

Muzzin looked like the only guy all series long that could handle himself, he also led the team in scoring. You can be the best team in the league, but lose if your top guys don't perform.

Washington is getting a dose of that right now.

 

[Trolfoli]

Honestly without the Cap going up a lot, or ownership being ok with Lombardi buying out at least two bad contracts...Trading good assest like Toffoli/Carter/A-Mart/Muzzin

He can't do much.

Say it again as well.

What's really hurt is the 2011,2012,2013 drafts, the Kings basically got nothing out of those drafts, you can't do that.

Kings have time. That is valuable. They have the time to give a guy a few years 2-3 to get up to speed. There are quite a few teams trying to make that push to get them over the top now. There is a need for top 4 D. Not just swaps like Hamonic, but adding.