Omni Owl
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- Mar 9, 2008
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but can you not put a ****ing exclamation point after everything, it makes your posts unreadable.
GDT: Offseason game thread
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but can you not put a ****ing exclamation point after everything, it makes your posts unreadable.
Also, on Kempe, as one post pointed out, he might be young, but he's no softie, and he's very fearless, and he's skating many times at extremes speed with the puck, and he gets hit very hard at times, but he usually pops right back up!! He's a tough kid, no doubt!!
Kingspiracy
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- Nov 13, 2006
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I'm all for giving the kids a chance but I'm not sure i'd go this far at the same time introducing all these rookies/ 2nd years to important roles. In my opinion part of our problem was that a lot of our experienced guys declined and got shown the door. Losing Mitchell, Stoll, Regehr and Richards decimated our leadership and experience core.
Rolling Shore at 2c scares the **** out of me until he shows a lot more.
The thing about Leicester is it happens once every 20 years. It's not how you build a winner. Inserting that many young guys isn't going to accomplish anything but missing the playoffs.
If I was a core guy I would be pretty pissed off if the team iced a bunch of rookies wasting my prime cup years. One or two in limited roles? Fine. But sticking a rookie with zero pro experience on the top line and a guy who struggles at 3C in the top 6 is madness. Our youth just isn't that good.
damacles1156
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- Feb 5, 2010
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There is a reason NHL coaches across the board, prefer Veterans to Rookies. Unless that rookie is a Kopitar/Doughty type player, coaches have little patience(unless directed otherwise by a rebuild).
damacles1156
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ugh few things off the top of my head i noticed that I didn't see this year vs. the Sharks:
- the kings game looked SO much heavier in those series
- their neutral zone control was so clean
- their offensive zone tenacity was incredibly suffocating
... what happened
The roster changed, and got younger/softer. The core got older.
Even next season if largely the same names are brought back, it still won't be the same roster. The Core will be older, younger players will be older, New players will break in ETC.
KingsFan7824
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- Dec 4, 2003
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Kopitar - $6.8m to $10m
Lucic - $6m, probably the same amount to stay
Brown - $5.875m
Quick - $5.8m
Gaborik - $4.875m
14-15, 0 playoff games
15-16, 5 playoff games, 1 win
Lucic, Gaborik, Toffoli, Carter, Brown = 2 playoff goals total
Lewis = 2 playoff goals
The core guys are making a bunch of money, necessitating the icing of more and more rookies. The core guys have come up on the short end of the stick the last few years, heavily contributing to a few wasted prime Cup years. Blew a 12 point division lead. Couldn't be bothered to show up in the last month or two, even after talking all season about how they were all embarrassed missing the playoffs last year.
Not that I blame the players for getting that money. It is far more guaranteed than any Cup win. If Kopitar was at $9m instead of $10m though, that's extra money to spend elsewhere, but, the cap isn't Kopitar's problem.
When the core guys were cheap, other players could be brought in to make the team deeper. Now the core guys are expensive after winning, other guys had to be let go, and they're the ones that have to lead the way as older, more expensive players.
You know the KINGS didn't "lose" these guys. Age took them from us. With a bit of luck, like the unusual impact Toffoli and Pearson had as rookies, we could have dealt with having these guys move off the roster one at a time, or so. That's not what happened. OTOH, we had, or "used up", a lot of good fortune, 2012-2014.
So, in hindsight, I chose cups.
ugh few things off the top of my head i noticed that I didn't see this year vs. the Sharks:
- the kings game looked SO much heavier in those series
- their neutral zone control was so clean
- their offensive zone tenacity was incredibly suffocating
... what happened
Coupla things.... Those D Men were better at breakouts and controlling play with leads. Then some key D Men disappeared.
All the lines played a bit tighter, closer together, as 5 man units.
Opponents did not have the same, deep down, respect for KINGS teams in those days. Nowadays, every team uses the KINGS (and some others as "measuring sticks") and gets up for them. We kinda sneaked up on teams, especially 2012.
Peter James Bond II
"Man, we were right there" - De-Luc-sional
- Mar 5, 2015
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I wish the Kings had drafted a few more Euros the last few years.
Outside of Kempe and Cernak, they haven't drafted many. Lintuniemi was already here. Been tough to get Russians over, in Porkins and perhaps Dergachyov, but not talking about Russia.
Kempe and Cernak have loads of talent and can skate. They respectively may have the most skill in the system at their positions.
So many teams have success drafting Euros in mid rounds and they come over and make a decent impact - even bypassing the minors.
Outside of Kempe and Cernak, they haven't drafted many. Lintuniemi was already here. Been tough to get Russians over, in Porkins and perhaps Dergachyov, but not talking about Russia.
Kempe and Cernak have loads of talent and can skate. They respectively may have the most skill in the system at their positions.
So many teams have success drafting Euros in mid rounds and they come over and make a decent impact - even bypassing the minors.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
But we have, particularly the last few years. We've been drafting just under 50% Europeans for the last several years, we've just had little luck with them coming over and breaking through yet. And we're typically picking Europeans high in the draft, Canadians/Americans lower, so it's not like we're not taking our shots
I'd imagine some of that is system, some of that is player, but I dispelled that myth in another thread. And if you look at other teams, we're about middle of the pack, little higher, on drafting Europeans.
Edit:
2015--Cernak, Dergachyov, Wagner, Schmalz, Reddekopp, Roy
2014--Kempe, McKeown, Lintuniemi, Amadio, Johnson, Dillon, Marchment, Mistele, Watson, Middleton
2013--Zykov, Auger, Fasching, Bartosak, Brodzinski, Leslie, Kubalik
2012--Pearson, Porkins, Miller, Hyka, Ladue, Ebert
I guess it's actually closer to 1/3 because of the 2014 draft, but we're typically taking 2-3 Europeans on 5-6 picks.
I see you're talking more about mid-round europeans but I think that's an organizational deal, many of those guys fall because they're the prototypical 5'10" skill (read for Sutter: soft, not good at puck protection or hitting) guy, where we draft for 'fit' (Amadio, Wagner, Fasching, Auger) at that point. But I do think we mix it up more than the organization is getting credit for.
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Kingspiracy
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AlphaBravo
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We discussed a lot about what we want to happen in the offseason, but after seeing the moves DL had made since 2008, I predict the following will actually occur:
-Lucic: If both parties are off by 500k and there is serious negotiations, I don't see the deal falling apart. Also, Lucic is exactly the type of player DL loves. Lucic will be signed this offseason.
-Top 4 Defenseman?: I don't see DL making a blockbuster trade and moving the likes of Toffoli for Trouba or another top 4 defender (and yes, that is the price you have to pay for a top 4 defender, if not more). Knowing DL, he will sign Schenn because Sutter was happy with his play based on comments he made after a few regular season games and giving Schenn on some nights 20 plus minutes. DL will also not trade McNabb. I think the Kings organization will not give up on him and will continue to work on his development. Lastly, I can see DL talking to Yandle about a deal, considering how highly he thinks of him, but it will all depend on cap space and the other crazy offers he will receive from Calgary, Colorado, or Edmonton.
-Brown: This one I cannot predict. On the one hand, DL gets emotionally attached to players and will be hesitant to trade the captain of the two Stanley cup Kings teams. Trading Brown will also signal a major (mental or emotional) shake up of the team, and I am not sure if DL has the stomach for that yet. On the other hand, DL had the guts to ultimately waive and buy out Richards, even though he loved this player. It is possible that missing the playoffs and only winning one playoff game the following year will be enough to convince DL to make the move (if he even can, which is the big if).
-The Scrubs: DL will resign Lewis and will not trade King. We have debated the pros and cons of these scrubs, but the reality is that Sutter loves these two players and I don't see DL getting rid of them. Whether DL will trade Clifford and/or Nolan for some minor cap space is uncertain.
-Playing Rookies: Like it or not, I do not see the Kings suddenly infusing the lineup next year with 3 or more rookies. Because Dowd and Mersch had their cups of coffee last year, it is possible they are brought into the lineup depending on how they perform at training camp. Gravel may get the role of the 7th defender and brought into the lineup if there is an injury. Kempe may get called up to play 5 games or so like Mersch last year however he wont be given a regular spot, as we have seen with other rookies.
-Greene and Scuderi: If these two are healthy and don't retire, they will play. I don't see Sutter scratching these players.
-Fobert: I think he will get traded. The fact that Sutter did not play him down the stretch or even have him as a healthy scratch in the playoffs indicates that he was not very happy with his performance earlier in the season.
-Lucic: If both parties are off by 500k and there is serious negotiations, I don't see the deal falling apart. Also, Lucic is exactly the type of player DL loves. Lucic will be signed this offseason.
-Top 4 Defenseman?: I don't see DL making a blockbuster trade and moving the likes of Toffoli for Trouba or another top 4 defender (and yes, that is the price you have to pay for a top 4 defender, if not more). Knowing DL, he will sign Schenn because Sutter was happy with his play based on comments he made after a few regular season games and giving Schenn on some nights 20 plus minutes. DL will also not trade McNabb. I think the Kings organization will not give up on him and will continue to work on his development. Lastly, I can see DL talking to Yandle about a deal, considering how highly he thinks of him, but it will all depend on cap space and the other crazy offers he will receive from Calgary, Colorado, or Edmonton.
-Brown: This one I cannot predict. On the one hand, DL gets emotionally attached to players and will be hesitant to trade the captain of the two Stanley cup Kings teams. Trading Brown will also signal a major (mental or emotional) shake up of the team, and I am not sure if DL has the stomach for that yet. On the other hand, DL had the guts to ultimately waive and buy out Richards, even though he loved this player. It is possible that missing the playoffs and only winning one playoff game the following year will be enough to convince DL to make the move (if he even can, which is the big if).
-The Scrubs: DL will resign Lewis and will not trade King. We have debated the pros and cons of these scrubs, but the reality is that Sutter loves these two players and I don't see DL getting rid of them. Whether DL will trade Clifford and/or Nolan for some minor cap space is uncertain.
-Playing Rookies: Like it or not, I do not see the Kings suddenly infusing the lineup next year with 3 or more rookies. Because Dowd and Mersch had their cups of coffee last year, it is possible they are brought into the lineup depending on how they perform at training camp. Gravel may get the role of the 7th defender and brought into the lineup if there is an injury. Kempe may get called up to play 5 games or so like Mersch last year however he wont be given a regular spot, as we have seen with other rookies.
-Greene and Scuderi: If these two are healthy and don't retire, they will play. I don't see Sutter scratching these players.
-Fobert: I think he will get traded. The fact that Sutter did not play him down the stretch or even have him as a healthy scratch in the playoffs indicates that he was not very happy with his performance earlier in the season.
WHOneedsSOX
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Pretty sure it won't work cap wise to sign Lucic, Lewis, and Schenn without giving up King, Brown, Greene and Scuderi. Unless they trade Gaborik....
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Schenn better be gone. As much as I like his physicality and how he plays when he's instinctive, I cannot deal with his blown coverages. For a team that relies on defense, he's too bad at defense. Even as a Greene replacement; you would never see Greene lose a stick in the slot, he'll smother his guy to a fault. Schenn gets caught thinking and looking.
He's the perfect D to play 20 mins a night when gunning for the lottery.
I have a suspicion that Lombardi will take a look at Fayne. Fits his project M.O. recently.
Omni Owl
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Christ Fayne is awful, no. Schenn has a great physical presence, but that's about it. He's tentative with the puck which leads to turnovers, reminds me a lot of a right handed McNabb. Both physical stay at home types that make awful desicions with and away from the puck. I wouldn't mind if McNabb, Scuderi, and Schenn were all gone next year.
KingsFan7824
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Anything prior to the summer of 2011 I don't think really applies to today. That's when Lombardi had the label of "too married to prospects" torn off. Now it's "too married to Cup winners", but, who knows after the last 2 years.
One thing Lombardi hasn't done since 2012, he hasn't traded anyone that played any sort of role on either Cup team. He's let guys walk in free agency, like Williams and Mitchell. He even let Sekera walk without a fight, despite giving up a 1st rounder and getting basically nothing in return.
Where that leaves him this summer, is up for debate. To make a trade, in order to open cap space, would require trading someone that won as an LA King. If he let Williams walk, he could let Lewis go. If he had to compete for him, I'm not sure Lombardi would go too far for Schenn. There are enough holes to fill that I would guess Lucic is still up in the air.
Lombardi pre-2011 is different from Lombardi from 2011-2014. After the last 2 years, how much of the "keep the winning team together as much as possible" Lombardi is still around? It worked while it worked, but it hasn't worked since winning the 2nd Cup. Voynov has a lot to do with that, and those defensemen just aren't out there. In some ways, this might be Lombardi's most difficult offseason. There's no cheap core players, and there's no winning to fall back on. There's no easy answer, and after these last 2 years, you can't trade that 2017 pick until this team proves something again.
AlphaBravo
Registered User
Depends. I should have qualified the amount that Lewis and Schenn would have to sign for. Assuming they want outrageous salaries, I agree. I don't think Lewis is worth more than $1.75MM a year and Schenn is worth less than $2.5MM.
cyclones22
Registered User
Any organization that wants to and actually becomes a multiple Cup winner in a short period of time, has to eventually pay the piper. It's impossible not to. Players will eventually price themselves or others off the team. That's how it goes in the cap era. I've come to accept the reality of it. Have the last 2 seasons sucked? Of course, but knowing when to pull the plug on a good thing is one of the hardest things to do in sports. It's a waste of energy to go all butterfly effect and wish DL would've done something differently in 2013 or later.
Omni Owl
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Especially because we don't know how long it will take for another championship core to manifest. It could be another 40 years, or it could be another 15. That's a truly bitter pill to swallow. At least we were fortunate enough to have a GM come in with a vision like DL.
tsanuri
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I'm not ready to fully give up on him but we'd need to get a deal in place that makes sense.
He's never been required to play D like the Kings do and coming in mid season trying to learn and do it.
I think a full training camp with the team and just the growth of what is fully expected he could turn out. Of course he might be a bust anyway.
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