GDT: Offseason game thread

[h2oroosta]

And I don't think your above lineup is even close to a championship caliber lineup unless either the top guys really have great years or the bottom guys surprise us. Also don't think Andreoff and Gravel get raises that high unless they have huge years.

If they do trade Brown to Buffalo, I'd make sure Franson is coming back the other way. Right handed puck mover on a 1 year deal at $3.325 million.

I don't think this lineup is any different from this year. You lose King and Brown and replace with Dowd and Mersch. Is it that much of a drop? Just no depth if there is any injury to the top 6.

The problem is the D. Having the top for as McNabb, Muzzin, Amart and Doughty is okay - it's just if any of them get hurt like this year, they are toast. Greene/Schenn is a serviceable 6th defenseman and you have to break in Gravel or Forbort at some point, or you may as well package them now.

But let's face it. There isn't a whole lot they can do with the cap and screw themselves over the next year with Toffoli and Pearson.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I also agree that roster moves only accomplish so much. Kopitar, Carter, Quick, and certainly Doughty were all thoroughly outplayed in the SJ series. It doesn't matter how deep we are if the top guys don't perform.

 

[lumbergh]

I agree with everything you're saying but Gaborik in a bad year still scores more than Brown. Plus he still has plus speed which is something the Kings sorely lack. Also if you trade Gaborik then you have a hole in the top 6 again. 17-11-?, 70-77-73. You'll then have to play Brown or King up there all season (until a trade) unless they can convince a guy like Versteeg to sign for below market value.

Gaborik scored all of 22 points in 15-16. This season he had zero impact. Outside of that miracle playoff run, Gaborik has been almost invisible. He's not any faster than Brown. I say put Brown with Carter and see if they can make some magic.

The big difference between Brown and Gaborik is that Gaborik is tradable and Brown is not.

 

[AlphaBravo]

Gaborik scored all of 22 points in 15-16. This season he had zero impact. Outside of that miracle playoff run, Gaborik has been almost invisible. He's not any faster than Brown. I say put Brown with Carter and see if they can make some magic.

The big difference between Brown and Gaborik is that Gaborik is tradable and Brown is not.

Gaborik had a slow start, but he was heating up real fast before he got injured. I think he would have reached 20 goals but for the injury. I don't think there is much of a debate that Gaborik can score more goals than Brown. The only upside with Brown is his physical play, which is still decent. That said, if there are absolutely no takers for Brown, but there is a team willing to take Gaborik, you trade Gaborik. Using cap space for defense is priority no. 1 this offseason.

 

[BigKing]

Gaborik scored all of 22 points in 15-16. This season he had zero impact. Outside of that miracle playoff run, Gaborik has been almost invisible. He's not any faster than Brown. I say put Brown with Carter and see if they can make some magic.

The big difference between Brown and Gaborik is that Gaborik is tradable and Brown is not.

27 goals in 69 games in 2014-15 wasn't invisible but rather a waste of a "healthy" Gaborik season by most of the rest of the roster.

12 goals in 54 games this season and looked to be heating up at the time of his injury. Straight-line projection puts him at ~18 goals but things were looking to gel with him and Vinny together.

I think he would of hit 20 if he stayed healthy this season. Sure we would like to see more than that and it is unfortunate that we haven't been able to see more playoff Gaborik (this year doesn't count for obvious reasons) but it is hard to call him invisible since the playoff run as that just seems like recency bias.

The issue with Gaborik is do you cut bait now to get in front of his decline as opposed to sitting through it like we've seen with Brown/Stoll/Richards/Greene or do you ride out his ~20 goals because the team "has to win now"?

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Gaborik scored all of 22 points in 15-16. This season he had zero impact. Outside of that miracle playoff run, Gaborik has been almost invisible. He's not any faster than Brown. I say put Brown with Carter and see if they can make some magic.

The big difference between Brown and Gaborik is that Gaborik is tradable and Brown is not.

He scored "all of" those 22 points in 54 games because he happened to miss the the last two months of the season, in case you missed that. I don't think anyone would argue that he wasn't living up to expectations for the first part of the season, but you're kidding yourself if you think he was invisible in the weeks leading up to his injury.

And how can you say with a straight face that Gaborik has been "invisible" since a "miracle" playoff run? He scored 27 goals in 69 games just last season. How is that "invisible"? I'd love to see where people were talking about how "invisible" Gaborik was after last season.

On the other hand, Brown scored 27 POINTS (in a full 82 games) last season. Compare with Gaborik's 27 GOALS last season. Not to mention Brown's 28 points this season in 82 games, compared with Gaborik's 22 in 54 games.

Do you have some sort of objective measure that shows Gaborik isn't any faster than Brown? I'd love to see it if you do.

If Gaborik was as bad as you claim, how is it he's still tradable? That makes no sense.

 

[Fishhead]

Scoring isn't the problem. Here's the GF/GP over the last 5:

2016 - 2.72
2015 - 2.66
2014 - 2.41 *cup
2013 - 2.73
2012 - 2.29 *cup

Last year was fantastic by Kings standards, even with missing Gaborik for a large stretch.

This is the problem. GA/GP over the last 5:

2016 - 2.34
2015 - 2.40
2014 - 2.05 *cup
2013 - 2.38
2012 - 2.07 *cup

This team needs a defenseman, plain and simple.

It's not all in a vacuum, the forwards obviously have something to do with the GAA as well as Quick. Plugging in Gravel or Forbort might seem look an upgrade, but in the big picture they really aren't.

One guy that I think would fit in nicely is Campbell. He knows he's not going to get a huge contract, he's not hurting for money, and he knows he only has a couple more stabs at it at best. His offense isn't what it was but he was damn good for Florida this year, and he can skate for hours. He'd be a good option while one of the young guys break in. He's an ideal pair for DD, allowing others to slot into more comfortable spots. It comes down to his price and where he wants to go at this point in his career.

 

[BigKing]

Scoring isn't the problem. Here's the GF/GP over the last 5:

2016 - 2.72
2015 - 2.66
2014 - 2.41 *cup
2013 - 2.73
2012 - 2.29 *cup

Last year was fantastic by Kings standards, even with missing Gaborik for a large stretch.

This is the problem. GA/GP over the last 5:

2016 - 2.34
2015 - 2.40
2014 - 2.05 *cup
2013 - 2.38
2012 - 2.07 *cup

This team needs a defenseman, plain and simple.

It's not all in a vacuum, the forwards obviously have something to do with the GAA as well as Quick. Plugging in Gravel or Forbort might seem look an upgrade, but in the big picture they really aren't.

One guy that I think would fit in nicely is Campbell. He knows he's not going to get a huge contract, he's not hurting for money, and he knows he only has a couple more stabs at it at best. His offense isn't what it was but he was damn good for Florida this year, and he can skate for hours. He'd be a good option while one of the young guys break in. He's an ideal pair for DD, allowing others to slot into more comfortable spots. It comes down to his price and where he wants to go at this point in his career.

Appreciate the work in compiling the stats, but scoring was a problem in those Cup years until the trades went down. It is kind of misleading as the GF in the playoffs for both Cup years was probably much better than any of those regular season totals posted.

Doesn't change the fact that the defense is the major weakness of the roster.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Scoring isn't the problem. Here's the GF/GP over the last 5:

2016 - 2.72
2015 - 2.66
2014 - 2.41 *cup
2013 - 2.73
2012 - 2.29 *cup

Last year was fantastic by Kings standards, even with missing Gaborik for a large stretch.

This is the problem. GA/GP over the last 5:

2016 - 2.34
2015 - 2.40
2014 - 2.05 *cup
2013 - 2.38
2012 - 2.07 *cup

This team needs a defenseman, plain and simple.

It's not all in a vacuum, the forwards obviously have something to do with the GAA as well as Quick. Plugging in Gravel or Forbort might seem look an upgrade, but in the big picture they really aren't.

One guy that I think would fit in nicely is Campbell. He knows he's not going to get a huge contract, he's not hurting for money, and he knows he only has a couple more stabs at it at best. His offense isn't what it was but he was damn good for Florida this year, and he can skate for hours. He'd be a good option while one of the young guys break in. He's an ideal pair for DD, allowing others to slot into more comfortable spots. It comes down to his price and where he wants to go at this point in his career.

Not saying they don't need a dman, but that 2014 Cup was won offensively. Even if you take out the first two games against the Sharks, in the remaining 24 games they gave up 56 goals, which is about the same average as the 2013, 2015, and 2016 regular seasons. During the Chicago series, I can remember people not being thrilled with Mitchell and/or Voynov.

That win was Gaborik having one of the best goal scoring performances in playoff history, Williams with a career playoff performance from the 3rd line while centered by Stoll, Carter and Kopitar at a PPG, Doughty being great, and a timely save or two from Quick(although nothing like 2012). And of course absorbing the losses of both Mitchell and Regehr in the 2nd round, by having Greene and Schultz play as well as they could.

Whatever Lombardi does this summer, somewhere along the way next season a young guy or two will need to play above expectations.

 

[Cook24]

Lucic 5.5M-Kopitar 10M-Gaborik 4.8M
Kempe .9M-Carter 5.2M-Toffoli 3.3M
Pearson 1.4M-Helm 3M-Mersch .8M
Andreoff .6M-Dowd .6M-Nolan .9m
Shore .6M

Muzzin 4M-Doughty 7M
Martinez 4M-Yandle 5.5M
McNabb .8M-Greene 2.5M
Gravel .6M

Quick 5.8M
Hutton 1M

68.8M total

-Lecavalier and Scuderi retire
-Let Lewis(sad day), Enroth, McBain, Schenn, and Versteeg walk
-Trade Brown(lol), using King and Clifford as incentive(once again lol)
-Sign Yandle(5.5M),Hutton(1M), Helm(3M)
-Pray

 

[Trolfoli]

No post-season Sutter signing OR Sutter, DL media availability (and Brown disappearing without interviews) tells me something is up. Doesn't necessarily have to be a conspiracy or anything huge, but I'm sure the gears are turning back there, they're not just sipping Mai Tais.

You don't think that had anything to do with being asked to submit his NTC list right after losing to the Sharks? (You wouldn't ask a player for that during the playoffs, but you'd need that information as soon as it ends.)

Hope Brown doesn't take it personally if Lombardi isn't able to move him.

I don't get all this talk about replacing Sutter. The window is currently shut. Team needs to find some ways to fill holes that will probably take more then one year. What's the problem with bringing Sutter back? He may have to switch to more of a development mind set vs Doughty 30 mins a night.

Longest offseason ever. Just give someone the cup already so we can get some trades going.

 

[AlphaBravo]

You don't think that had anything to do with being asked to submit his NTC list right after losing to the Sharks? (You wouldn't ask a player for that during the playoffs, but you'd need that information as soon as it ends.)

Hope Brown doesn't take it personally if Lombardi isn't able to move him.

I don't get all this talk about replacing Sutter. The window is currently shut. Team needs to find some ways to fill holes that will probably take more then one year. What's the problem with bringing Sutter back? He may have to switch to more of a development mind set vs Doughty 30 mins a night.

Longest offseason ever. Just give someone the cup already so we can get some trades going.

Lombardi asked Brown to give the NTC list already? I haven't heard news of that.

 

[damacles1156]

Lombardi asked Brown to give the NTC list already? I haven't heard news of that.

He didn't, if that had gone down it would be plastered all over the LA Times.

Two rookies in the Defense playing any significant minutes are going to be an issue regardless of skill level. The bottom six consisting of the names put forth by you folks (mostly rookies)...The odds of them not struggling all year...Come on folks.

The roster holes= 3rd Center, 3/4 Defender, unless those spots are filled by legit Veterans, or a McNabb/Dowd/Shore have unbelievable year, the Kings Big boys will have to pick up the slack.

Kopitar/Doughty/Quick(yup)Carter/Toffoli..All of them were thoroughly outplayed, at that point it doesn't matter what your roster looks like.

 

[AlphaBravo]

On lakingsinsider, one member asked Rosen why its taking long for DL to give a statement. Rosen said that he is still doing a deep dive audit.

 

[damacles1156]

I would even argue that it doesn't matter what you roster looks like if simply Kopitar gets outplayed.

In 2012,2014 Kopitar had some Zero's in series, but he was still a beast all over the ice (shutting down Toews).

This playoff's the Sharks seemed to exploit Kopitar. At that point it doesn't matter, your going to lose if your Number one center is not stopping the tide.

 

[funky]

Would like to try different top lines to start before drastic moves. Each line brings a different look to defend against.

Lucic- Kopitar - Toffoli. Two bulls free up space for a sniper

Pearson - Carter - Gaborik. Three fast snipers, pushes pure speed with size and hands


I would also like to see these players get a chance in the bottom 6. I like King but he is a 2 mil player that can be replaced by Mersch for cheap. Would also like to see Kempe get a taste of the NHL. E en if it is a couple of call ups to get him used to the NHL pace and skill level.


Mersch - ? - Brown -> don't think any team will take him

Kempe - Andreoff - Dowd. - energy, size, grit, some skill

Cheap spares - Shore, Nolan.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

I would even argue that it doesn't matter what you roster looks like if simply Kopitar gets outplayed.

In 2012,2014 Kopitar had some Zero's in series, but he was still a beast all over the ice (shutting down Toews).

This playoff's the Sharks seemed to exploit Kopitar. At that point it doesn't matter, your going to lose if your Number one center is not stopping the tide.

Absolutely. Kings have zero chance if down the board they're getting outplayed by their counterparts. Kopitar outplayed by Pavelski. Doughty outplayed by Burns. Thornton outplaying everyone/anyone on the Kings. Jones made the big saves when he needed to and Quick couldn't.

From Kopitar in 2010 when they were facing elimination:

"When you face elimination, it's not a whole lot about X's and O's," Kopitar told NHL.com. "It's one of those things where you have the system, and you have the structure but it's just go out and make it happen, basically. You want to do it every shift, you want to be better than the guy across from you and that's all that's going to matter tonight."

Simply put, Kings players were outplayed this season.

 

[Basilisk]

I want Vinny to come back half-way thru next season @ the league minimum......or whatever we can afford to pay him without sacrificing too much cap space.....

 

[Basilisk]

On lakingsinsider, one member asked Rosen why its taking long for DL to give a statement. Rosen said that he is still doing a deep dive audit.

What in the Hell does that mean?

 

[KingsFan7824]

Better days.

From 4 quick, but fast, years ago, to the day...



What seems like an even longer time somehow, 2 years ago, to the day...

 

[Trolfoli]

Just in!!!! The Kings top players were out played and all they have to do is just play harder next year and they're right back in this thing.

 

[Omni Owl]

What in the Hell does that mean?

I presume going through the entire organization with a fine tooth comb.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Just in!!!! The Kings top players were out played and all they have to do is just play harder next year and they're right back in this thing.

yeyy! try harder!

 

[eleventy]

Better days.

From 4 quick, but fast, years ago, to the day...



What seems like an even longer time somehow, 2 years ago, to the day...

ugh few things off the top of my head i noticed that I didn't see this year vs. the Sharks:

- the kings game looked SO much heavier in those series
- their neutral zone control was so clean
- their offensive zone tenacity was incredibly suffocating

... what happened

 

[bob77]

DS and DL should study the dynamic of the Leicester story!!! It does happen in sports, with rejects and younger kids!! Being from the Midwest (SD), I always remember the 1987 Minnesota Twins as well!! The point isn't necessarily to go full blown ballistic a blow up this team, but to realize there is talent outside of your dimension and stereotypes!! You can't win with rookies, you can't win with college kids, you can't win with Euros, you can't win with Russians, you can't win with skilled but not physical D, you can't win without big players, Etc. the list sort of goes on and on!! I wish they would just judge hockey skills and slot people in properly!! Much of DS success has been set up by the slotting and drafting of players while Murray was coach. And now, under DS, that has all grinded itself out with his mindset!! Don't get me wrong, the group DS was given to him needed his mindset, and it was brilliant to watch!!! But that train has left the station!! DS should resign, but he should very much remain part of the Kings empire!!! The Man does know his hockey!! It's just his patience with kids and other types of players isn't the greatest. If the Quacks can fire Bruce after a very impressive run in the second half, well, the Kings ........ However, i have too much respect for DS, and I'm not suggesting he should be fired!! At the same time, I'm saying someone needs to have a heart to heart with him as well!! His season ending interview so to speak!! I have seen Ontario play about 25 times this year live, but have watched every game via AHL live. I can tell you Gravel and Forbort both deserve an extended shot. Perhaps even playing together, because they do well together!! Also, I think Kempe is ready for a look, although I'm confused as anyone about long term whether he'd be C or W. I'd like to see him play on a line with Kopitar at C, Carter on W, and Kempe on W. Kempe is similar to the Sharks Nieto, lots of skill and speed!! Carter has speed as well, and can unleash it on the wing!! Kopitar is the ultimate C!! I think this line would be unstoppable!! On the second line, you have Toffoli and Pearson, and you finally move Shore up to the top 6, which is really only where he can really play effectively. Then you slot Dowd in and Andreoff!! Dowd to me is a 3C. I'm going to stop, but everything I'm saying here I've been saying for at least a year and a half!! We've only seen sneak peeks of things to come, only to regress backwards. I'm in the camp that's there is plenty of skill to win another Cup, we just can't keep miscasting all the players!!! Imo